Tesla Supercharger network

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New York City super chargers?

Does anyone know what the New York City area super charger network plans are (beyond what's on the TM website?)? My P85 arrives in a few weeks and I live on manhattan

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Does anyone know what the New York City area super charger network plans are (beyond what's on the TM website?)? My P85 arrives in a few weeks and I live on manhattan

 

[AMPd]

I wonder if tesla pays for the electricity, or the businesses where the chargers are located.
It would be great if the businesses paid in return for the additional customers. Less expenses for Tesla, especially when more and more people use the super chargers.

 

[brianman]

I wonder if tesla pays for the electricity, or the businesses where the chargers are located.
It would be great if the businesses paid in return for the additional customers. Less expenses for Tesla, especially when more and more people use the super chargers.

My understanding is that it's the opposite of what you're describing.

Especially in the near term, and potentially in the mid-to-long term Tesla makes money selling electricity back to the grid from the solar panels more than they spend on electricity to charge vehicles.

 

[AMPd]

My understanding is that it's the opposite of what you're describing.

Especially in the near term, and potentially in the mid-to-long term Tesla makes money selling electricity back to the grid from the solar panels more than they spend on electricity to charge vehicles.

well in that case good for Tesla, that is if they actually generate more electricity than superchargers use
I hope long term wise these superchargers won't cost Tesla too much to operate, they have an absolutely magnificent product especially for those who love to take road trips often. No more spending hundreds of dollars to take a trip, and hopefully they do build out the entire network of chargers.

 

[JRP3]

I thought most of the current superchargers do not have solar panels?

 

[ElSupreme]

I wonder if tesla pays for the electricity, or the businesses where the chargers are located.
It would be great if the businesses paid in return for the additional customers. Less expenses for Tesla, especially when more and more people use the super chargers.

I think you have it backwards. Tesla is paying the power bill (probably negotiated with the power company to get special rates). And the locations are providing free real estate.

I thought most of the current superchargers do not have solar panels?

Tesla sort of weaseled when they said solar offset. They said they would have panels 'somewhere' to offset the power. My guess is the Fremont factory is going to be a major 'offset' hub. It would probably be cheaper to install panels in a single location than in all these scattered locations.

 

[RDoc]

I'd think it would make sense for Tesla to locate the solar panels where they'd have the most output as long as the power could be absorbed by the grid. Perhaps they should divide them somewhat geographically, but the North East and North West probably are not the best locations.

I suppose one could make an argument that the real way to do it would be for maximum carbon offset, so the locations would be a function of total annual power and what percentage of the local grid power came from coal, etc.

 

[hans]

My guess is the Fremont factory is going to be a major 'offset' hub. It would probably be cheaper to install panels in a single location than in all these scattered locations.

This is such a great idea. There is a lot of roof space at the Fremont factory. So much so that Tesla could claim to offset the emissions of the manufacturing process as well as the supercharger network.

 

[aronth5]

well in that case good for Tesla, that is if they actually generate more electricity than superchargers use
I hope long term wise these superchargers won't cost Tesla too much to operate, they have an absolutely magnificent product especially for those who love to take road trips often. No more spending hundreds of dollars to take a trip, and hopefully they do build out the entire network of chargers.

The power used by the supercharges will be more than solar panels can generate at any typically sized charging station. This has been covered on another thread. I'll see if I can find it.

Found it
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/8590-Tesla-Supercharger-network/page92

Agreed. I used a online solar PV system calculator to estimate the size of a system that could generate ~90KW, at peak, in California, and its about 9,500 sq-ft. This would only supercharge one car, and only at peak time of day. Given that many of the supercharger locations have 2 or 4 or perhaps more charging spots in the future, they would have to cover many more parking spots than just the ones reserved for supercharging if they wanted to power the whole system from solar. The same problem exists for the idea that the grid connection would be the same capacity for grid to charger as it is the other way from solar panels to grid.

It is possible to cover the entire parking lot or the roofs on all the surrounding buildings but I don't think the plan is to do all that.

 

[Objective1]

Does anyone know what the New York City area super charger network plans are (beyond what's on the TM website?)? My P85 arrives in a few weeks and I live on manhattan

Are you asking if there will a supercharger in Manhattan? That's unlikely. Tesla is providing the superchargers to enable long-distance travel, not to replace the gas station as such. They seem to be placing them between major metropolitan areas to enable travel between them (the Hawthorne supercharger in the LA area is the exception that proves the rule, since it is located at the SpaceX factory/Tesla design center there).

 

[AnOutsider]

Are you asking if there will a supercharger in Manhattan? That's unlikely. Tesla is providing the superchargers to enable long-distance travel, not to replace the gas station as such. They seem to be placing them between major metropolitan areas to enable travel between them (the Hawthorne supercharger in the LA area is the exception that proves the rule, since it is located at the SpaceX factory/Tesla design center there).

Which brings us back to Tesla licensing them in some fashion, or allowing groups to raise funds to have one installed at a specified location. Could help increase the rate at which they roll out.

 

[K Hall]

Which brings us back to Tesla licensing them in some fashion, or allowing groups to raise funds to have one installed at a specified location. Could help increase the rate at which they roll out.

I totally agree. Easy to do with the initial early adopters to raise funding to accellerate installation.

 

[ckessel]

I really wish Tesla would give some guidance on when locations will be up. I have an August trip from Portland, OR to San Francisco and whether I drive or fly is completely dependent on the presence of super chargers.

 

[AMPd]

The power used by the supercharges will be more than solar panels can generate at any typically sized charging station. This has been covered on another thread. I'll see if I can find it.

Found it
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/8590-Tesla-Supercharger-network/page92

Interesting
well I really hope these charging stations don't cost Tesla too much to operate. I wouldn't want them loosing too much money on this

 

[Robert.Boston]

I'd think it would make sense for Tesla to locate the solar panels where they'd have the most output as long as the power could be absorbed by the grid. Perhaps they should divide them somewhat geographically, but the North East and North West probably are not the best locations.

I suppose one could make an argument that the real way to do it would be for maximum carbon offset, so the locations would be a function of total annual power and what percentage of the local grid power came from coal, etc.

Except as window-dressing, it doesn't make a lot of sense for Tesla to co-locate SuperChargers and the solar panels that are generating the offset electricity. Let's not have any illusion that the power going into our cars from a SC "came" from the PV cells. Tesla should be installing solar to support the costs of SuperCharger power where it is most cost-effective, considering:

1. Cost of grid power
2. Insolation (quality of sunlight)
3. State solar incentives

This sounds complicated, but fortunately the US DoE has done the work, although it's a little out of date (2010, with utility rates from 2008):

So, e.g., Tesla would be wise to put solar panels in New Jersey to offset the Delaware SC usage.

 

[JRP3]

Actually I think it's more important from a marketing perspective to put panels on the superchargers as well. It's a strong image that makes an important visual connection. The average person won't be interested in knowing there are solar panels somewhere else that off set the supercharger use, especially since those panels could exist independently of the superchargers. Plus you get some shade, rain, and snow protection for your car when charging.

 

[ElSupreme]

View attachment 15100

So does NJ have really good incentives, or really expensive power? Or both? Tho southern states are green due to the amount of sun I am sure. And California and Hawaii have high power rates to help too. NJ (and that big patch of MI) look odd to me. I am assuming the big green patch around TN is due to some TVA incentive.

 

[CapitalistOppressor]

So does NJ have really good incentives, or really expensive power? Or both? Tho southern states are green due to the amount of sun I am sure. And California and Hawaii have high power rates to help too. NJ (and that big patch of MI) look odd to me. I am assuming the big green patch around TN is due to some TVA incentive.

Not all of Michigan is green. Makes me think its incentives by the power utility. Unless it's lake effect clouds, but I believe those would be on the western coasts, not the eastern ones, because of the prevailing winds/jetstream like with Buffalo.

 

[EdA]

So does NJ have really good incentives, or really expensive power? Or both? Tho southern states are green due to the amount of sun I am sure. And California and Hawaii have high power rates to help too. NJ (and that big patch of MI) look odd to me. I am assuming the big green patch around TN is due to some TVA incentive.

NJ had very good incentives for solar but the market has become saturated.
This map also doesn't show the incentives MA has for solar AFAIK.

 

[stevezzzz]

Which brings us back to Tesla licensing them in some fashion, or allowing groups to raise funds to have one installed at a specified location. Could help increase the rate at which they roll out.

Unless Tesla were willing to underwrite the cost of the electricity used for charging, any group that managed to raise funds to have a supercharger installed would also have to create an endowment to pay the utility bills. Because Tesla wouldn't want to allow any superchargers that require a fee for use, or which were restricted to an arbitrary subset of owners: it'd be bad for marketing reasons.