-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Tesla superchargers opening up to other EVs?
- Thread starter threeputts
- Start date
electricar
Member
The first time that I have to wait to charge because a non Tesla car is in a stall charging ( sanctioned by Tesla - not someone who figured out how to game the system ) will be the end of my loyalty to the brand.
ChadS
Last tank of gas: March 2009
Imagine that every year, your friend hosts a potluck get-together at her condo - there are usually 8 people. Then one year, she says that she's also invited 4 of her neighbors to join in.
If the 4 neighbors just show up and eat without bringing anything...yeah, that would be a bummer. There might not be enough food for everyone.
But if they each bring a dish, not only does the food increase by the proportion of new attendees, but now there is greater variety for all. And in fact, with other condo owners attending, the event now qualifies to be in a nice common room that isn't allowed for private events.
Sure, just letting anybody in to use Superchargers with compensation would be bad. But Tesla has been clear they won't do that. Others joining, and paying their way, is a good thing for Tesla owners.
If the 4 neighbors just show up and eat without bringing anything...yeah, that would be a bummer. There might not be enough food for everyone.
But if they each bring a dish, not only does the food increase by the proportion of new attendees, but now there is greater variety for all. And in fact, with other condo owners attending, the event now qualifies to be in a nice common room that isn't allowed for private events.
Sure, just letting anybody in to use Superchargers with compensation would be bad. But Tesla has been clear they won't do that. Others joining, and paying their way, is a good thing for Tesla owners.
ChadS
Last tank of gas: March 2009
Chills
Member
That's a nice analogy and, in principal, I agree with you BUT I feel Tesla have already shown that they can't / won't expand the supercharger network fast enough to keep up with even the Tesla cars demand. Here in the UK its a big problem where you end up queueing to charge before being able to continue your journey. I fear allowing other manufacturers join in before massively expanding the sites and numbers will lead to big problems and, as this one of the main reasons many chose a Tesla, will be detrimental to their position and desirability. As with someone above, i will straight away look to other brands which I feel have not only caught up but are now better in some ways.
1. Yeah, good point. Any 3rd party car could be salvage title. They offer the battery inspection for salvaged cars for a ~$1k fee but state in their online terms that SC is still disabled even with the inspection. So that I think dilutes the safety argument. I think they disable it because they can to get people to buy their cars new. Nonetheless, it will be a contradiction if they allow 3rd party cars to use their stations. Or is it?
2. If 3rd party cars can use Tesla SC stations they would need Tesla to CCS1/Chademo adapter. So what's stopping anyone from getting the Tesla to CCS1/Chademo adapter and plugging that adapter into a CCS1/Chademo (the Chademo to Tesla adapter is sold by Tesla) to tesla adapter? That should emulate it's a 3rd party car. No?
Last edited:
For those newer here, there was Elon Musk: Tesla is in talks with other automakers about sharing the SuperCharger network (UPDATED) - Charged EVs in 2015 and nothing ever came of it. In the circles I was in, the rumor at that time was BMW...
I guess after that rumor came the below which threw cold water on BMW:
Aptera has shown a Tesla receptacle on their car.
Is Aptera Using Tesla's Charging Tech: 1,000-Mile, Supercharge-Capable EV?
entrpreneuramg
Member
smogne41
Active Member
As an EV advocate, I say hell yeah! As a Tesla owner, I also say hell yeah! More customers=more money to build out the network. Really hope it happens.
entrpreneuramg
Member
smogne41
Active Member
It would mostly be a problem in California and some other urban areas. For most of the country, and especially for highway travel the network is quite severely underutilized. At least initially I would not mind Tesla reserving the really high demand LA and Bay Area Superchargers for Teslas only, while opening up the rest of the network to everybody. I am sure it does not have to be an all open or all closed choice.
The new U.S. government support for EV charging infrastructure is going to force a decision.
Tesla has the biggest and best DCFC infrastructure right now, but the government isn't going to subsidize a proprietary system. That means all of the money is going to install CCS1 chargers. Once Tesla connectors are in the minority, there will be substantial pressure to conform the standard with new vehicles. Perhaps even regulations, using European regulation as the example and pointing out that Tesla didn't have a problem using CCS2 there.
Tesla either needs to immediately make a move to become the de facto standard for North America, or in a few years we'll all be carrying around giant adapter bricks for CCS1 after Tesla changes all of the cables to support their new production vehicles with CCS1.
entrpreneuramg
Member
Should be easy enough for tesla to retrofit existing cars with CCs1. But I agree, as an investor, Tesla already has the infrastructure built out. Getting other auto manufacturers to use this existing network means Tesla could be the largest in NA. As an owner. I kind of like the exclusivity of being the only ones allowed to use the network but it makes a lot of sense to open tesla chargers to other brands.however, I don’t know how that happens if Tesla keeps the proprietary form factor and some auto makers are already using this adapter. I suppose that Ford, GM and VAG could start using the tesla form factor as well but this also seems unlikely.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Having the same plug standard does not mean access to the network, given even in EU, having CCS2 didn't mean the other EVs get to charge at superchargers (other than a bug that was quickly patched).
Tesla has been clear that manufacturers must contribute upfront to the network proportional to the demand they would place on it. The reason it has to be upfront (and not just per use fee) is because the network needs to be built and maintained before the demand has saturated the capacity.
Other networks give a poor experience due to designing to be just enough for projected demand or even less.
cpa
Active Member
We've seen first hand in California (and at selected locations elsewhere) what happens as Tesla increases sales of its vehicles and the Supercharger network cannot keep up. Barstow, Harris Ranch, Tejon Ranch, San Clemente, all over the Bay Area, US101, Interstate 15, among others have either expanded from single digit stalls to 20+ or added additional capacity a few miles away at a different location. Adding 40 at Kettleman City and 56 at Firebaugh has certainly quelled much congestion, particularly considering that the later models can utilize up to 250kW. Still, there are busy weekends and holiday times when all stalls are full, and drivers are queued up to wait their turn in line.
Yet, there still remain hundreds of locations that provide 120 or 150kW. Moreover, there are still quite a few dinosaur vehicles out there that cannot take advantage of triple-digit charging speeds. Many of these locations were opened with four to twelve stalls. Granted, the newer, faster locations generally have twelve or more. The version two Superchargers split the available power between two stalls, so when these 6 or 8 stall locations fill up, initial charging rates can be as slow as 24kW--even with a depleted battery because the first to plug in receives the lion's share.
I am not aware of the charging speeds capable of the vehicles manufacture by rivals to Tesla. Are they able to receive 200kW or more?
If Tesla were to be the standard and open up its Superchargers to any EV, there would have to be new locations established across the US funded by others and perhaps licensed by Tesla. Some sort of reciprocity would need to be agreed to.
Even as Tesla expands and opens new locations monthly, the current pace will be woefully inadequate if cars from other manufacturers can use the Superchargers once their numbers start to grow.
To try to delineate that certain Superchargers are off limits to others in urban areas or semi-urban areas is impractical. It is either all or nothing.
Yet, there still remain hundreds of locations that provide 120 or 150kW. Moreover, there are still quite a few dinosaur vehicles out there that cannot take advantage of triple-digit charging speeds. Many of these locations were opened with four to twelve stalls. Granted, the newer, faster locations generally have twelve or more. The version two Superchargers split the available power between two stalls, so when these 6 or 8 stall locations fill up, initial charging rates can be as slow as 24kW--even with a depleted battery because the first to plug in receives the lion's share.
I am not aware of the charging speeds capable of the vehicles manufacture by rivals to Tesla. Are they able to receive 200kW or more?
If Tesla were to be the standard and open up its Superchargers to any EV, there would have to be new locations established across the US funded by others and perhaps licensed by Tesla. Some sort of reciprocity would need to be agreed to.
Even as Tesla expands and opens new locations monthly, the current pace will be woefully inadequate if cars from other manufacturers can use the Superchargers once their numbers start to grow.
To try to delineate that certain Superchargers are off limits to others in urban areas or semi-urban areas is impractical. It is either all or nothing.
Similar threads
