Tesla superchargers opening up to other EVs?

[smogne41]

150kW or so is the max right now in other cars at 400V. The Taycan (and the upcoming Ionic 5 and others) can take over 200kW but only at 800V. Honestly it is not as big a deal as it sounds like, since even Teslas can only take the 250kW for a relatively brief period (and older Model S's cant even take over 100kW sometimes now). So the average kW per session will not be as different as it looks from the max number (unless we are talking about something super slow like a Bolt). I would love the Tesla plug to be the NA standard, but I doubt it will happen at this point (and that is probably mostly Tesla's fault by being the typical Tesla control freaks). CCS is such a bloated and inelegant standard (both physically and electrically) but we are probably stuck with it.

 

[kayak1]

It would mostly be a problem in California and some other urban areas. For most of the country, and especially for highway travel the network is quite severely underutilized. At least initially I would not mind Tesla reserving the really high demand LA and Bay Area Superchargers for Teslas only, while opening up the rest of the network to everybody. I am sure it does not have to be an all open or all closed choice.

It's already a problem in Maine. Not exactly a hotbed of EVS.

This is no longer just a Califonia issue and with another 300-500K new Teslas being added to the US this year it's going to get much more congested.

I rather see the SC be locked down and Tesla produce as many cars as they can. Having 3rd parties slow charge as SC will really diminish the value that Tesla has created in the SC network.

I would hope that Tesla will release a >=100KW CCS1 adapter to allow more charging options.

If Tesla was to release an adapter for non Tesla cars to change on the SC then they will have a lot more in the way of options than we have.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

I rather see the SC be locked down and Tesla produce as many cars as they can. Having 3rd parties slow charge as SC will really diminish the value that Tesla has created in the SC network.

They wouldn't be slow charging. Any cars that use Superchargers would be capable of charging at least at fast as a Tesla. Also, by joining the Supercharger network, they would pay to expand the Supercharging network proportionally.

A CCS adapter in the US would be a welcome alternative as it would allow Teslas to use other networks.

 

[smogne41]

It's already a problem in Maine. Not exactly a hotbed of EVS.

This is no longer just a Califonia issue and with another 300-500K new Teslas being added to the US this year it's going to get much more congested.

I rather see the SC be locked down and Tesla produce as many cars as they can. Having 3rd parties slow charge as SC will really diminish the value that Tesla has created in the SC network.

I would hope that Tesla will release a >=100KW CCS1 adapter to allow more charging options.

If Tesla was to release an adapter for non Tesla cars to change on the SC then they will have a lot more in the way of options than we have.

I think it would be totally reasonable to exclude the slower (~50kW) cars like the Bolt and Leaf. Perhaps require a minimum of 100kW, or a maximum 20% to 80% charge time. Only letting on faster charging cars would also help push the rest of the industry forward, and might finely force GM to upgrade the Bolts rather pathetic DC charging.

And yes, Tesla should immediately release a CCS to Tesla adapter so we can use EA and others at decent speed.

 

[maxf]

This is a TERRIBLE idea and will be disastrous for Tesla.. Already queues are increasingly common at Tesla superchargers. I was at Darts Farm in Devon on a Friday afternoon in early July, before the main school holidays and there were 11 Teslas waiting to charge at one point.. My main reason for choosing a Tesla was the easy access to the supercharger network thereby negating range anxiety. Allowing all to use them will bring range anxiety back. This idea will increase sales of non Tesla EVs who currently suffer severe range anxiety and make wait times dramatically worse.
Many owners, like myself, bought a Tesla because of the exclusive use of Superchargers which meant for the first time an EV was viable for me. The thought of potentially having to queue for hours before even starting to charge will make them useless for longer journeys.
Let's be honest. Teslas are overpriced compared with other EVs and the reason many of us bought one was chiefly because of exclusive access to the supercharger network. If this goes ahead maybe we could start a class action?

 

[stopcrazypp]

This is a TERRIBLE idea and will be disastrous for Tesla.. Already queues are increasingly common at Tesla superchargers. I was at Darts Farm in Devon on a Friday afternoon in early July, before the main school holidays and there were 11 Teslas waiting to charge at one point.. My main reason for choosing a Tesla was the easy access to the supercharger network thereby negating range anxiety. Allowing all to use them will bring range anxiety back. This idea will increase sales of non Tesla EVs who currently suffer severe range anxiety and make wait times dramatically worse.
Many owners, like myself, bought a Tesla because of the exclusive use of Superchargers which meant for the first time an EV was viable for me. The thought of potentially having to queue for hours before even starting to charge will make them useless for longer journeys.
Let's be honest. Teslas are overpriced compared with other EVs and the reason many of us bought one was chiefly because of exclusive access to the supercharger network. If this goes ahead maybe we could start a class action?

My understanding is this is mainly for the stations that are publicly funded (at least in the near future; Elon talked about opening everywhere to all EVs, but given how late is claims tend to be, I don't think it'll happen anytime soon). I think it's pretty hard to justify public funded stations being exclusive to Tesla owners, and not sure a class action would stand (and it would make Tesla owners look bad/unreasonable, not that the public might not think that way already).

 

[TomServo]

My suggestion would be to install one maybe two dedicated CSS stalls at every NEW site being built. Then sell an adaptor so regardless of occupancy any Tesla could charge at EVERY open stall regardless of plug type. Then going forward Tesla could gather usage stats and if needed start retro fitting CSS plugs at existing sites. And maybe at some FUTURE date convert the fleet to the CSS standard if existing owners want to update their older vehicles or just use the adaptor.

But with the Tesla approved/sold CSS adaptor Tesla owners would never have to worry about charging.

Just thinking out loud on how to satisfy these two competing requirements.

 

[Mr. Michael]

Saw an electric Mustang at the supercharger in Merrillville, Indiana on Saturday. I don’t know If there was any way for them to plug in, but even pulled in as far as possible, the cord on the supercharger would not reach.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Saw an electric Mustang at the supercharger in Merrillville, Indiana on Saturday. I don’t know If there was any way for them to plug in, but even pulled in as far as possible, the cord on the supercharger would not reach.

This happens occasionally because people don't know the superchargers don't work with their cars and the navigation systems do a horrible job of routing owners through the appropriate stations. I saw someone driving a Ford Energi pull into a supercharger and then later left to a J1772 stall elsewhere, so it's something that does happen.

 

[Mr. Michael]

There is that, but I thought it was interesting that Ford would put a charging plug too far away for a standard, back-in supercharger to reach. If it was to work, they would need an adapter with at least a couple foot cord.

 

[stopcrazypp]

There is that, but I thought it was interesting that Ford would put a charging plug too far away for a standard, back-in supercharger to reach. If it was to work, they would need an adapter with at least a couple foot cord.

That has less to do with Ford putting it there, but more with Tesla designing superchargers only for Teslas with a common socket location and with the cord just long enough to reach, to avoid having the cable touching the floor. That's why CCS chargers (even the ones with separate cabinets) are more bulky, as they need the cable to reach every possible port location (there is no agreed industry standard for port location).

 

[stopcrazypp]

Seems like the proposed bill says:

• Funds will be appropriated for charging infrastructure so long as that infrastructure is available to the public, capable of charging vehicles made by more than one manufacturer, and can be paid for via credit card.

U.S. Democrats Propose Expanded EV Tax Credits To $12,500 To Favor Big 3

Will that mean Tesla will have to add card readers to the subject stations to qualify? Or would Tesla's app work?

 

[cpa]

Seems like the proposed bill says:

• Funds will be appropriated for charging infrastructure so long as that infrastructure is available to the public, capable of charging vehicles made by more than one manufacturer, and can be paid for via credit card.

U.S. Democrats Propose Expanded EV Tax Credits To $12,500 To Favor Big 3

Will that mean Tesla will have to add card readers to the subject stations to qualify? Or would Tesla's app work?

Right now, today, who really knows? Just to hazard a guess: Tesla will design a special app for its Superchargers. Either credit cards will be on file within the app, or a person will have to prepay a set amount and replenish when the balance drops below a certain dollar amount. It may come to pass that we owners will have to download this putative app for Supercharging as well.

It may be that Tesla will not grandfather existing Superchargers into this program, focusing on government $$$ only for new installations. There could even be a completely different design to the stalls to differentiate between the original Superchargers and the new ones. Tesla may even expand existing sites with two to four combination stalls just to expand availability for us owners as well as providing juice for competitors.

Just a random opinion based on nothing and worth about as much.....

 

[srs5694]

Keep in mind that this legislation is not yet passed. Language in proposed legislation frequently changes late in the game. It's already changed at least once already -- I've seen two versions of the relevant passage, which I, at least, interpret very differently. Also, the language may be vague or leave a lot of details to interpretation by whatever regulatory agency or grant-awarding panel/agency/whatever actually doles out the money, and of course there's room for legal challenges if anybody feels put upon in any way. All of this assumes, of course, that the legislation actually passes, which isn't guaranteed. All of which is to say: At this point in the game, there are no definitive answers.

If you feel strongly enough, you can always write to your Representative and Senators expressing your concerns/preferences/etc. I recommend trying to track down the latest version of the legislation before you do so, so that you can see what it currently says, and quote it exactly. (I'm afraid I don't have a link handy.)