They didn't discontinue the 48A charger. What they did was take away the option. The 100's get 72A; everything else gets 48A. I have no idea why Tesla did this. I find having 72/80A charging very useful.
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They didn't discontinue the 48A charger. What they did was take away the option. The 100's get 72A; everything else gets 48A. I have no idea why Tesla did this. I find having 72/80A charging very useful.
whitex
Well-Known Member
Maybe they did it to increase differentiation between the models. Possibly also the 72A charging might have proven to cause more wear on the 75 battery (see Tesla limiting charging speeds on cars that that often DC charge). Or maybe the new cars have newer, cheaper chargers that can no longer go above 48A - maybe such a cost optimized charger came from the Model 3 development. Or maybe the the old charger proved not as reliable at 72A and the 100's today get a new and improved charger. Possibly all of the above.
There is definitely something odd about the 72A charger that makes me think Tesla doesn't seem eager to enable it. We bought a 60 in December. It came with the option to upgrade to 72A, but for some reason that option never showed up online, as did 60->75 upgrade, EAP, FSD, and service plans. The upgrade is still available btw, but I would have to put the order through the SC, unlike the 75 upgrade which just happens with an OTA update.
sakimano
Active Member
Sorry trying to keep track...now you're saying it's a model year change because they don't offer the software limited battery anymore and that's why tesla is justified (even though it's not a model year change) ?
That's because it's a hardware swap. If you search on here you'll find a thread discussing the new AC chargers (facelift S and X) where I posted the part numbers and a bunch of detail regarding Tesla's move from the old single/double chargers and the new 48/72A variety.
So I just thought about this, the contract states that they "may also cancel your order and refund your deposit if we discontinue a product, feature or option after the time you place your order."
About two weeks ago, the DS called me, told me they were giving me a free upgrade to the 75D with glass roof because the factory was being retooled to no longer produce the metal roof.
Granted, this was done over the phone, but I never signed/clicked anything to agree to a price increase. They told me this situation applied to a small number of orders so Tesla was just upgrading those who it applied to.
So technically, my legal order sits somewhere between the original 60D I ordered and the 75D with glass roof reflected in Tesla.com (after I agreed to the free upgrade, they changed the order on the portal). I would argue they can't cancel my order under the discontinuation clause because the 75D is not in fact discontinued.
I am curious whether:
a) the DS got bad info from someone else in telling me what was going to happen
b) DS misheard/misunderstood the deal with the supposed upgrade from a supervisor
c) DS made the whole thing up with the intent to change the price
d) someone else in the system is trying to extract another $1500 out of me
About two weeks ago, the DS called me, told me they were giving me a free upgrade to the 75D with glass roof because the factory was being retooled to no longer produce the metal roof.
Granted, this was done over the phone, but I never signed/clicked anything to agree to a price increase. They told me this situation applied to a small number of orders so Tesla was just upgrading those who it applied to.
So technically, my legal order sits somewhere between the original 60D I ordered and the 75D with glass roof reflected in Tesla.com (after I agreed to the free upgrade, they changed the order on the portal). I would argue they can't cancel my order under the discontinuation clause because the 75D is not in fact discontinued.
I am curious whether:
a) the DS got bad info from someone else in telling me what was going to happen
b) DS misheard/misunderstood the deal with the supposed upgrade from a supervisor
c) DS made the whole thing up with the intent to change the price
d) someone else in the system is trying to extract another $1500 out of me
whitex
Well-Known Member
I was talking about the face-lift Model S (officially 2017 Model year, delivered 12/31/2016) which has a charge limit of 48A. We also have the older one 40A which I upgraded to 80A and yes, that was new hardware (additional hardware actually). My point was that even the new charger that was advertised as upgradable, was not something Tesla heavily pushed. Coincidentally, not sure if you remember, when the X first came out, high powered charging did not show up on the order page until you entered a secret password. Why would Tesla want to hide 72A you think if it was just a software upgrade (therefore free money to them)?
or
e) someone else in the system is trying to convince you to bring forward your delivery into Q2.
(The fact they have offered you a choice between the exact car you ordered in June or a more expensive one in July. Never underestimate how focused on quarter end numbers Tesla are.)
His Delivery Preference was part of the order and was confirmed later by a Tesla employee, according to OP - the latter is an important part of the story. This is the order Tesla confirmed. From the perspective of the OP, Tesla changed their mind later. My point is that OP did not change his mind or his order at any stage, this was always his order. Tesla could have denied it or not offered such an option, but did not, instead confirming the order.
Besides, it makes no sense Tesla couldn't deliver a car month later because they no longer make them. Just build the car one month earlier and put it in storage for a month. Obviously Tesla is refusing to do this (whether because of bureaucracy or quarter games who knows, both rampant at Tesla), but it is not unheard of, nor any kind of unreasonable request IMO.
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@whitex You are right there is something odd about the 72A charger. That said, the Model X episode (which I remember well), may have been just a result of parts availability or early parts reliability, or how the factory line was configured (after all, as you recall, the chargers were upgraded at the store for quite a while, instead of put in at the factory), not necessarily related to changes in chargers today. By late 2016, the 72A charger was a readily selectable option at least on the higher-end cars and I believe came installed at the factory...
Still, with the DC charging degradation/peak rate throttling issues etc., certainly it doesn't sound completely impossible that higher charging rates would have been causing Tesla some headaches.
Still, with the DC charging degradation/peak rate throttling issues etc., certainly it doesn't sound completely impossible that higher charging rates would have been causing Tesla some headaches.
Good point.
With Tesla one certainly gets exposed to the quarter games. I have never felt that pressure with any other car maker as a customer, but with Tesla the end of quarter always lingers. Even after you buy you can't completely escape it, because the end of every quarter comes with a spike in marketing to existing owners and reservation holders, as well as service centers being - well - less servicing, due to their single-minded focus on as many deliveries as quickly as possible...
And that is where Tesla should have left it. Or built the cars and stored them for later delivery.
This is not hard. This is not a controversial, debatable question of opinions like some of the other questions we ponder here regarding Tesla's constant product changes and their effects.
This here is - instead - really basic stuff, just deliver what was ordered and agreed or, if okay with the customer, you can alternatively delivery something better for the same price or for cheaper. It should really take extraordinary circumstances for a seller that has an inkling of concern for customer experience to consider cancelling or asking for more money.
A $1,500 in a car sale is not an extraordinary circumstance. Especially not when the hardware in the car (a 75 kWh battery in both 60/75) is the same. Tesla asking for this is not only petty, it is simply bad business.
Also factor in that for cars not doing more than 12k pa. the service schedule falls on the anniversary of delivery which in turn exacerbates the problem.
From an end customer POV I wish they'd smooth out the deliveries.
whitex
Well-Known Member
AFIK the 48A charger is the same hardware as 72A so a hardware shortage as a reason doesn't make sense. It was fully selectable when I ordered the S60D. Yet, 72A never showed up in the available upgrades where all the other upgrades did, nor did it show up in the Tesla show where the 40-to-80 upgrade is. I thought about upgrading, but for one it's too expensive ($1,900) and on the back of my mind I always worry that it may not be good for the 75 battery to charge daily at 72A. I charge the dual charger MS (80A max) at 40A daily too (partially because electrical service is not big enough to handle a house and 2 HPWC's at full power - I could get the new line sharing HPWC's, but it would cost me to replace the HPWC hardware, and it would limit both cars to 80A total while today they charge together at a combined 88A, my wife gets the 8A extra as she drives more hauling the kids around).
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Clearly Tesla are pushing to get the car in OP's hands by quarter end. But I doubt they'd risk making an unhappy customer (especially one who is buying a high-end X at the same time) over that or $1500. I would think the bigger issue is the precedent that's being set. In this case the car as delivered in July would have significant upgrades from the car ordered, and Tesla know that every customer service interaction is dissected at length here and in other public forums - I'm sure they don't want to set a basis for customers to expect that they are entitled to any upgrades introduced between ordering and delivery at no extra cost.
Based on this thread it looks like Tesla are offering the customer three options, all of which are fair and completely consistent with their obligation to him:
- get a significantly upgraded car in July at a $1500 additional cost
- get the car as ordered a month early, at the agreed price
- cancel and get your deposit back
Totally get that the upgrades have no value to OP and that the early delivery is a burden but I also get that Tesla don't want every buyer waving this example in their faces every time they roll out an upgrade. Maybe something can be worked out where Tesla don't establish this precedent but still make OP whole in a way that matters - covering the cost of storage if the OP takes early delivery, for example.
Based on this thread it looks like Tesla are offering the customer three options, all of which are fair and completely consistent with their obligation to him:
- get a significantly upgraded car in July at a $1500 additional cost
- get the car as ordered a month early, at the agreed price
- cancel and get your deposit back
Totally get that the upgrades have no value to OP and that the early delivery is a burden but I also get that Tesla don't want every buyer waving this example in their faces every time they roll out an upgrade. Maybe something can be worked out where Tesla don't establish this precedent but still make OP whole in a way that matters - covering the cost of storage if the OP takes early delivery, for example.
Originally they were the same and it was just a software update, but later on Tesla changed the hardware for the 48A version. So now the upgrade from 48A to 72A actually requires swapping out the charger.
Science fan
Member
On the one hand, it would seem reasonable for Tesla to give you the changes at no additional charge, since it is not your fault that they are unable to produce the exact car you had originally ordered. I understand feeling put out over that issue. HOWEVER, the car you will receive, if you accept it, will look better, have more range, whether or not you think you need it, and will have a better resale value, even quite far into the future. Buying a used Model S would mean you would lose the $7,500 tax break. I say swallow your pride and accept the $1,500 upcharge for what will be a more valuable vehicle. By the way, once you get it, you will not stop smiling every time you drive it and the upcharge will just fade into irrelevance.
I think what he's really saying is that he'd be fine with the 75D if he didn't have to pay a single dime more for it.
I sure wish I'd been offered the deal he was given for $1500. Talk about a gift horse
whitex
Well-Known Member
A unique deal should be no problem "X100D+S75" to combo that waives one of the doc fees + $250 combo discount. Waiving doc fees has happened before btw. If anyone else want the same deal, they can say it was limited time, or maybe even give the exact same deal again (must buy loaded X100D to get the discounted S75).
