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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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I think this is incredibly sad and a missed opportunity. Even with how progression his campaign is, it's still stuck on the normal political game system. You can't even possibly think of The Green Deal with those companies. **** that *sugar*.

Yeah I was thinking the same thing. He claims to care so much about climate change, yet has 3 huge gas guzzling pickups in the background and not 1 car from the only company actually fighting climate change. I hate politicians. They’re all the same and bought by big corporations.

Edit: No more political posts from me after this. Sorry.
 
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Depends on how much of your net worth is tied into your portfolio. ;)

Well I hesitate to put actual numbers on it here.

Suffice to say that any financial adviser would not advise my current balance.
But any financial advisory would also not have seen the gains I have.

At any rate I firmly believe I have invested in one of the most consequential company's of my time.
I can't see many ...actually no other company's.... that have a focus on helping humans dig out of the mess we find ourselves in.

IMHO my children's lives are riding on it being successful in transitioning the world to clean renewable energy.
 
Yeah I was thinking the same thing. He claims to care so much about climate change, yet has 3 huge gas guzzling pickups in the background and not 1 car from the only company actually fighting climate change. I hate politicians. They’re all the same and bought by big corporations.
Go to the political party of your choice and tell them you want to represent them in your Riding; your platform is to ban all oil-fired and gas heat and cooking in all its homes, and that all its electrons must come from the Niagara and HydroQuebec hydro power plants.
I’m sure they’ll be delighted to back you, as otherwise you’re obviously in the pockets of big corporations.

Can you not see the difference?
 
Indeed, I have a lot of empathy here.

When I first put some decent money into $TSLA (€60k in 2016), my wife and I had the hope that it would grow enough to buy a summerhouse in Denmark, so 3x, 4x would be enough. In fact for much of the last 4.5 years it hung around 1x-2x the original investment, even dropped into the red last June, but wifey and I always said "if we lose it all, it doesn't matter" - let's face it, €60k, or more like €100k with additional purchases, isn't life-changing money, plus we both have well-paid jobs.

Then, in the space of a year, not only has the core-shares account jumped to around 15x initial investment, but my stupid trading account went from $3500 to $1.2m, yes, I kid you not, 35,000% gains, 350x. Total portfolio value as of close 31st August, $2.7m, pre-market 1st September we were at $540, I said to the wife "if this holds we'll be above $3m".

This is now serious money. This is life-changing. This was enough money not to buy a summerhouse, but to buy a house in Brussels, and for me to consider retirement.

So then to see that drop, over 5 days, due to the a-holes at the S&P and the a-holes speculating the stock, was galling, it hurt. It hurt for a lot of us, I'm sure, not all. The pure HODL-ers, who likely have tens-of-millions, are fine, but as I have some short-term needs, it was a stomach-punch blow, regardless of how crazy the run-up was, and I spend most of last week feeling physically sick as a result.

It hurt lots.

Yes, I know we were probably over-valued, but still. And yes I know it will recover and go higher, probably.

But it still hurt, even after nearly 5 years of being in this game.

Did I sell, hell no!
Lycanthrope. Your success story is an unusual one, but in my 55 years of investing and 20 years in brokering, I can say that it is not that unusual. I've seen no less than 3-4 investors who, for whatever reason, got real lucky and suddenly had more money than they thought was possible. Unfortunately, everyone of them eventually gave it back. I know you didn't ask for it. but I'm going to give you my opinion.
I believe that, if you continue to approach the market the way that (you have portrayed) you do, you also will meet this very same fate. Putting yourself in a position where you need short term cash and, having been successful in the recent past making money that way, thinking that the market will cooperate, is a recipe for disaster. For example, let's say you, in an effort to build cash, decide to sell OTM puts. One day you wake up to the stock, gapped down below the strike at which you sold and you are assigned. This is an outcome that will magnify your short term cash needs. This is just one example. I'm not going to write a book about this.

I'm just saying. I've seen it before. My advice would be to 1) get out of all option positions. 2) Sell as much TSLA (or other equities if you have them)., in order to give yourself some liquidity breathing room. 3) Become a 100% HODLer.

Truly, I wish you well and good fortune.
 
Indeed, I have a lot of empathy here.

When I first put some decent money into $TSLA (€60k in 2016), my wife and I had the hope that it would grow enough to buy a summerhouse in Denmark, so 3x, 4x would be enough. In fact for much of the last 4.5 years it hung around 1x-2x the original investment, even dropped into the red last June, but wifey and I always said "if we lose it all, it doesn't matter" - let's face it, €60k, or more like €100k with additional purchases, isn't life-changing money, plus we both have well-paid jobs.

Then, in the space of a year, not only has the core-shares account jumped to around 15x initial investment, but my stupid trading account went from $3500 to $1.2m, yes, I kid you not, 35,000% gains, 350x. Total portfolio value as of close 31st August, $2.7m, pre-market 1st September we were at $540, I said to the wife "if this holds we'll be above $3m".

This is now serious money. This is life-changing. This was enough money not to buy a summerhouse, but to buy a house in Brussels, and for me to consider retirement.

So then to see that drop, over 5 days, due to the a-holes at the S&P and the a-holes speculating the stock, was galling, it hurt. It hurt for a lot of us, I'm sure, not all. The pure HODL-ers, who likely have tens-of-millions, are fine, but as I have some short-term needs, it was a stomach-punch blow, regardless of how crazy the run-up was, and I spend most of last week feeling physically sick as a result.

It hurt lots.

Yes, I know we were probably over-valued, but still. And yes I know it will recover and go higher, probably.

But it still hurt, even after nearly 5 years of being in this game.

Did I sell, hell no!

We got close to 1M in Tesla that day and I kept asking my wife "what are trying to achieve here, we have more money than we need... should we sell?." We don't really care about being super rich but I agree that day it hurt like a mother****. Thankfully I sold most of my calls and turned them into shares specially the September calls.

Just wondering, what is your plan if it gets to $500 again?
 
I'm just saying. I've seen it before. My advice would be to 1) get out of all option positions. 2) Sell as much TSLA (or other equities if you have them)., in order to give yourself some liquidity breathing room. 3) Become a 100% HODLer.
1) Not in options. I'm not nearly smart enough for that, and because the game is rigged, the house will always win if you play long enough.
2) I have a house project next year so I sold enough to cover that (plus taxes when I actually withdraw the funds). Just happened that the price at the time was above $500, so I lucked out there.
3) There is way to much good news in the future to sell any additional Tesla. (I already have some other liquid assets, so no more was needed.
 
If Tesla really wanted to keep the stock price down during Q3 they would not be holding Battery Day during Q3 (Sept 22).


Unless of course it ends up being exactly the type of sell-the-news highly technical but will be massively important to the company but mostly 6-12 months from now type thing some have speculated it will be.

And of course Tesla would know that better than any of us :)
 
New must-see rant by Gali on HyperChange.

Love his enthusiasm and how he clearly articulates many of the issues that should be on the mind of every Tesla investor. For example, what theory of value investing should we rely on? the wider macro environment with low-yielding bonds, disruptive technologies, the possibility that Tesla might be even bigger than our wildest dreams etc etc.

sorry if this has been posted before but haven’t seen it in the thread.


Rant is right. He lost me at "e=mc^2"

And his rant about Warren Buffett - does he realize that Buffett is planning to invest $570M in the biggest tech IPO of the year - Snowflake?

And his ranting about PE and other valuation metrics is is like talking about the braking performance of vehicles without ABS. It's just an out of date attack. If Gali wants to attack traditional valuation, then he needs to read up on Aswath Damadoran who provides reasoned - and forwards looking - valuation analysis.

The issue with Wall Street isn't as simple as Gali states - that it's backwards looking and demands profitability. In actuality, Mr. Market is always forwards looking, as demonstrated by its reaction to every company that announces they just had a great quarter, even much better than expected, but then does not raise guidance for future quarters.

The problems with Mr. Market are at least two-fold:
1) It doesn't look far enough into the future
2) It doesn't believe things will change that much

For the first point, just look at almost any Wall St. Analyst (ARK Invest is an exception). They will give you "Price Targets" which are always just one year out. Adam Jonas probably got slapped around for his earlier multi-year high price targets for Tesla, and you'll notice today he only gives 1 year targets (and still gets it wrong, but that's another tale). So, Mr. Market cares about the next 3-6 quarters, but not further.

For the second point, Mr. Market underestimates how much things can change. When companies have revenue growing at rates of 75% YoY (or more!) those companies get what might appear to be high valuations, but it doesn't take long for that compounding to exceed the stock valuation.

They don't really believe disruption, as defined by Clayton Christensen (read The Innovator's Dilemma if you haven't already!) actually happens until it's too far along - and then they go too far. We see that today with Tesla. For a decade and more it was a company to laugh at, with evidence like no successful US automaker starting within the last half century, or that EVs would never be mainstream, etc.. And now it's swung so far that Mr. Market values snake oil salesmen founded companies with little IP at doublt-digit billions of dollars.

Five years ago, people were laughing at Tesla (I know, I was at CES and was at the dinners and parties). Today, people are finally questioning whether GM, Ford or Toyota will survive.

But, Gali's view that it's because of outdated PE type metrics is just wrong. The truth is less obvious and more ingrained into human psychology.

Investing is about predicting the future better than everyone else.

It's not about beating old men using PE ratios to guide their investments.
 
Hi all,

I've been doing a lot of lurking here recently, but I find that I don't have enough time to go through all of the posts and find the best ones. So I figured I'd throw a little automation at it and help myself and others find the most useful posts.

My first attempt at this just takes the posts from the last 24 hours with what I'm calling "total positive votes," which is just all votes minus disagrees.

Enjoy!

[snip]
Thank you! I usually read every post, but sometimes that's just not possible. Having a quick overview of the best posts would be incredibly helpful.

I suggest you make a new thread for these, if you plan to run it daily or weekly - that way it'd be easy to find for those who need to catch up.
 
1) Not in options. I'm not nearly smart enough for that, and because the game is rigged, the house will always win if you play long enough.
2) I have a house project next year so I sold enough to cover that (plus taxes when I actually withdraw the funds). Just happened that the price at the time was above $500, so I lucked out there.
3) There is way to much good news in the future to sell any additional Tesla. (I already have some other liquid assets, so no more was needed.
Sorry. This must have been a mistake. I did not intend this post for you. But, sounds like you are doing well.
Onward.
 
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Unless of course it ends up being exactly the type of sell-the-news highly technical but will be massively important to the company but mostly 6-12 months from now type thing some have speculated it will be.

And of course Tesla would know that better than any of us :)

While I think this is possible I feel like whereas autonomy was a future promise that could be added via a software update making autonomy day as you described, battery day would potentially osborne sales of they were to reveal too far ahead of execution. I feel like it's possible that they are already manufacturing products with at least some of what will be shown. I feel like there have been a few things that happened to support this like china exports to europe despite Elon saying it wouldn't happen before, powerwall 3rd party installers being notified they won't get product for months, the almost 8 month delay from the original battery day. Maybe not all of that is relevant and I've probably missed other things, but they are hiding something in preparation for battery day imo
 
Indeed, I have a lot of empathy here.

When I first put some decent money into $TSLA (€60k in 2016), my wife and I had the hope that it would grow enough to buy a summerhouse in Denmark, so 3x, 4x would be enough. In fact for much of the last 4.5 years it hung around 1x-2x the original investment, even dropped into the red last June, but wifey and I always said "if we lose it all, it doesn't matter" - let's face it, €60k, or more like €100k with additional purchases, isn't life-changing money, plus we both have well-paid jobs.

Then, in the space of a year, not only has the core-shares account jumped to around 15x initial investment, but my stupid trading account went from $3500 to $1.2m, yes, I kid you not, 35,000% gains, 350x. Total portfolio value as of close 31st August, $2.7m, pre-market 1st September we were at $540, I said to the wife "if this holds we'll be above $3m".

This is now serious money. This is life-changing. This was enough money not to buy a summerhouse, but to buy a house in Brussels, and for me to consider retirement.

So then to see that drop, over 5 days, due to the a-holes at the S&P and the a-holes speculating the stock, was galling, it hurt. It hurt for a lot of us, I'm sure, not all. The pure HODL-ers, who likely have tens-of-millions, are fine, but as I have some short-term needs, it was a stomach-punch blow, regardless of how crazy the run-up was, and I spend most of last week feeling physically sick as a result.

It hurt lots.

Yes, I know we were probably over-valued, but still. And yes I know it will recover and go higher, probably.

But it still hurt, even after nearly 5 years of being in this game.

Did I sell, hell no!

Congrats. A friend of mine will always say this :"rich ppl problems"
 
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Thank you! I usually read every post, but sometimes that's just not possible. Having a quick overview of the best posts would be incredibly helpful.

I suggest you make a new thread for these, if you plan to run it daily or weekly - that way it'd be easy to find for those who need to catch up.

Great idea! I’ll do exactly that!