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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

adiggs

Active Member
Sep 25, 2012
4,258
11,751
Portland, OR
I know nothing about margin trading but wonder if this email from Schwab, which holds my TSLA, is worthwhile? I've never been asked to loan out my shares but probably never owned anything worth sharing before concentrating on TSLA.

"
Earn income for lending securities
Learn about Schwab's Securities Lending Fully Paid (SLFP) program, which may allow you to earn monthly income for lending securities to Schwab that are in high demand by other investors. Your account currently holds securities that may qualify for the SLFP program.

Please note that income paid on a loaned security can fluctuate with changes in demand in the securities lending market.
...
"

I was in Fidelity's equivalent program for a few years. At one point, I was being paid 14% to lend out my shares, with most months more like 5 to 8%.

I dropped out when the shares became easy to borrow and were all returned (or might get lent out for <1%).


I found it to be an entirely reasonable way to raise a bit of income from the shares I was going to hold regardless. Then the rate became too low and I haven't bothered researching the new rates. My perception is that TSLA is still cheap to short, thus lending the shares is barely better than US treasuries.
 

SeaNile

Member
May 27, 2019
92
62
Chadds Ford, PA
I'm confused - is it the $100k worth of TSLA that is tempting, or is it something else that is tempting you as an alternative to $100k worth of TSLA :D

It's either pick from the usual Fidelity funds or go IRA and have the ability to pick stocks as well as funds. Given that option why not put 100k or even 200k into TSLA stock? Hindsight is 20/20, could have bought years ago but I figure I'd be saying the same thing 2-3 years from now. Of course a new car or boat is tempting. LOL
 
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Silent Ludicrosy

Supporting Member
Mar 14, 2018
810
10,252
Phoenix
Rolling over my 401 and have the option to put it in an IRA account which I can mange. I know better but 100k of TSLA is tempting.

After I got my Model S in 2018 I bought a couple TSLA shares in a brokerage account, but my Roth IRA only allowed mutual funds. I switched brokerages and rolled over my Roth IRA to go all-in on TSLA in Dec 2018. Best decision I ever made. Thank you to whoever posted about self managed IRAs two years ago, I had no idea that was an option until I read it here.
 

SeaNile

Member
May 27, 2019
92
62
Chadds Ford, PA
After I got my Model S in 2018 I bought a couple TSLA shares in a brokerage account, but my Roth IRA only allowed mutual funds. I switched brokerages and rolled over my Roth IRA to go all-in on TSLA in Dec 2018. Best decision I ever made. Thank you to whoever posted about self managed IRAs two years ago, I had no idea that was an option until I read it here.

Just opened a TD Ameritrade account. I should be able to manage my own IRA at this point starting next week.
 

Mo City

Active Member
Jul 17, 2016
1,910
11,670
near Houston
Um, no. The lower my debt (it's been zero for decades) the more aggressively I can invest while sleeping soundly. The last three houses I've purchased (and all cars) have been mortgage/debt free. Some things in life are beyond priceless because profit and the amount of wealth you have are not even close to being the most important things in life.

If you ever become fooled into thinking otherwise, you are not wealthy but incredibly poor. :oops:
I don't know why a relatively small amount of debt would make it hard for you to sleep. To each his own I guess. :rolleyes:

The interest on a car loan doesn't begin to compare with the rate of return of owning TSLA.

Being debt free isn't where one should celebrate. The celebration should start when one has the ability to pay off all debt with no sweat. Again, whichever floats your boat.

I have no idea why you bring up "the most important things in life". Totally irrelevant to what I was addressing.
 

Mo City

Active Member
Jul 17, 2016
1,910
11,670
near Houston
It's either pick from the usual Fidelity funds or go IRA and have the ability to pick stocks as well as funds. Given that option why not put 100k or even 200k into TSLA stock? Hindsight is 20/20, could have bought years ago but I figure I'd be saying the same thing 2-3 years from now. Of course a new car or boat is tempting. LOL
10 months ago (2 months before getting furloughed due to COVID) I rolled my entire Fidelity 401K to an IRA.

It's been amazing.
 

Singuy

Active Member
Jun 28, 2018
3,641
24,900
US
I do get the logic here, but I also see it as flawed.

You can use this logic to talk yourself out of continuing to live indoors (omg - all those mortgage payments that could have been buying TSLA instead), or owning a car of any kind (those car and insurance payments that I could have replaced with a monthly bus pass!), or even eating.

After all, you can always eat more cheaply - get a 25lb bag of beans and rice, and you might get your meal costs under $0.50, even if those meals start getting monotonous or even not so healthy for you.


From my own experience, I consider buying a Tesla about the best investment that a long term buy and hold investor can make. Because it will be a daily reminder of just how awesome and fun these products are, and any time you think about selling that Tesla in the driveway will remind you of what you're selling. That might help you question the wisdom of selling the shares, and over even a smallish number of shares and a long enough investment horizon, that car will pay itself back with a lot of interest instead of costing you.

I can use that argument to say the $80k used roadster in my avatar bought me financial independence and retirement 8 years later.
Plus this is hindsight 20/20 talk. If a crystal ball exist, then yes a sane people would dump ever cent into Tsla as it prints them a 10x return in a year's time. But what if wall street decided, nope...the earnings are not good enough and we are stuck at a 10% return instead?
 
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Hock1

Member
Jan 21, 2017
677
6,334
Ponte Vedra Beach, Florida
It's either pick from the usual Fidelity funds or go IRA and have the ability to pick stocks as well as funds. Given that option why not put 100k or even 200k into TSLA stock? Hindsight is 20/20, could have bought years ago but I figure I'd be saying the same thing 2-3 years from now. Of course a new car or boat is tempting. LOL
I've been out of the brokerage business for a while, but I'm pretty sure one still cannot hold a boat or a car in a retirement account.
 

mulder1231

Active Member
Jan 1, 2012
1,790
9,734
SF Bay Area
Not sure if it was mentioned before, but on December 21st, the stars are aligned for TSLA to enter the S&P 500... literally :cool:

For the first time in nearly 800 years, Jupiter and Saturn will align in the winter solstice sky to become what will be known as the "Tesla Star" on Dec. 21. The last time this rare celestial event, called the "great conjunction," was observable was March 4, 1226.

B5DB8F88-7D0B-42FB-85B5-400B536E5A59.jpeg


To observe, watch the South Eastern sky on Dec 21, 45 min before what will temporarily be called “Musk” instead of dusk.
 
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SeaNile

Member
May 27, 2019
92
62
Chadds Ford, PA
Thoughts on this philosophy on options, etc?

It depends on your account size but no way would I go all in on any stock. Elon Musk goes into the looney bin or something more serious happens to him and it could tank and take years to get your money back. A safer bet might be to buy something like January (or any month) 2021 calls at maybe a $1000 strike price. Right now you can buy those for about $580 each contract. If it gets to $1000 before then I would guess you'd be up a few hundred % so maybe triple your money. If you bought 5 of them the most you could lose would be about $2900 ($580x5). If it triples like I mentioned you could possible make $10,000. With simple calls and puts you cannot lose more than you pay. If you buy next weeks $700 calls for $4.00 ($400 for 1 contract) and don't sell them and it only gets to maybe $600 then you lose the whole $400 you paid as they will expire worthless.
 

PeterJA

Member
Sep 26, 2013
926
8,597
San Diego
It's either pick from the usual Fidelity funds or go IRA and have the ability to pick stocks as well as funds. Given that option why not put 100k or even 200k into TSLA stock? Hindsight is 20/20, could have bought years ago but I figure I'd be saying the same thing 2-3 years from now. Of course a new car or boat is tempting. LOL

You seem like a non-regular visitor here, so I'll offer some "not advice" that is probably obvious to the regulars, but maybe not to you.

TSLA will almost certainly be higher in 2-3 years. By that time, three more factories should be ramped up (counting Shanghai Phase 2) and probably more factories being built... Autopilot will be trained by Tesla's super duper computer Dojo... Tesla Network (robotaxis) will be either rolled out or clearly showing its gargantuan potential... Cybertruck will be driving Ford toward bankruptcy... exponential sales growth of Solar Roof and Powerwall and Megapack will no longer be ignored by analysts... and world-conquering $25k "world cars" from China and/or Germany will be unveiled or ramping up production.

Billionaire investor Ron Baron predicted TSLA will reach $2k/share by 2025. I suspect it will get there sooner as the forward-looking market sees all the above and realizes Tesla is only getting started. The only question is whether the price will drop on the way and give you a better entry point than $600.

Nobody knows for sure, but I doubt it. The FUD is flying now like Gordon Johnson's spittle (including this gob of snot), but the recent upgrades from Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley are a hurricane blowing it away. Some folks here expect TSLA to drop after S&P500 inclusion (I don't), but even if does, it will likely drop from a higher point and maybe not reach $600 again.

Standard advice is invest half your cash now and half later, but I wouldn't wait too long. At least 15% of available shares are about to disappear permanently into index funds, and every day brings more YouTube videos showing the awesomeness of the Full Self Driving beta. And you never know what that tricky Elon will announce next.
 

MP3Mike

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2016
15,343
33,257
Oregon
I've decided to move both accounts over to IB and it was a painless and very smooth process (via ACATS transfer, took about 4-5 business days).

Please note that you will NOT be able to trade from start of transfer till end or even +1 business day
.
You might want to wait until Jan with this move, considering TSLA's upcoming party.


A couple days later, an E*trade consultant reached out to me from the Cupertino office via phone call AND email and suggested we have a chat about the move. I told him my primary concern was margin rate, and secondary was customer service wait times. He suggested that we try to get an approval for a rate he got for a client recently (1.94%) and I was excited to do that.

Interesting, I moved some of my securities around to take advantage of bonuses that other brokerages were offering, and I have since received emails/calls from E*TRADE offering me a large cash bonus if I move them all back. (I don't use margin so that wasn't a negotiation point for me.)

I did learn one interesting thing though Schwab lets me put pre/after-market orders in before their trading hours start, which E*TRADE does not. (It is one of the things that annoys me about E*TRADE, if I want to trade in pre-market I have to get up way to early to put an order in; I can't plan ahead and put my order in before I go to bed.)
 

SO16

Active Member
Feb 25, 2016
2,867
8,925
MI
I do get the logic here, but I also see it as flawed.

You can use this logic to talk yourself out of continuing to live indoors (omg - all those mortgage payments that could have been buying TSLA instead), or owning a car of any kind (those car and insurance payments that I could have replaced with a monthly bus pass!), or even eating.

After all, you can always eat more cheaply - get a 25lb bag of beans and rice, and you might get your meal costs under $0.50, even if those meals start getting monotonous or even not so healthy for you.


From my own experience, I consider buying a Tesla about the best investment that a long term buy and hold investor can make. Because it will be a daily reminder of just how awesome and fun these products are, and any time you think about selling that Tesla in the driveway will remind you of what you're selling. That might help you question the wisdom of selling the shares, and over even a smallish number of shares and a long enough investment horizon, that car will pay itself back with a lot of interest instead of costing you.

I can use that argument to say the $80k used roadster in my avatar bought me financial independence and retirement 8 years later.


True. Buying my Model S over 4 years ago convinced me to purchase many more TSLA shares than I had before hand.
 

euro2012

Member
Feb 3, 2020
63
106
British Columbia, Canada
Tesla Facts: "I believe much of the TSLA volume on December 18 is going to happen on the "Nasdaq Closing Cross" at 4:00pm - a special end of the day auction process where those willing to sell TSLA shares and those buying them can negotiate a single closing price."

Thoughts @FrankSG and others? We screwed?

I would love to learn more about this as well.
 

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