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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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Strongly agree. I can't imagine much worse for Tesla than trying to buy a legacy OEM - think of all the pension obligations, political issues, union labour issues, legacy dealership issues and mountains of debt that need to be addressed - and in return Tesla would get a bunch of factories that can't make their products without significant upgrades and thousands of employees with the wrong skillset. All this would be a black hole for Elon's limited available attention time at the expense of his focus on product development. He's already mentioned that GigaBerlin is a time suck for him due to all the red tape.

Tesla also likely wouldn't get many of the synergies to compliment their business that a successful merger should have. There's no new supercharger network to pick up, little IP of value, no software expertise, no cell manufacturing expertise. They could get some skill in fit/finish and potentially driving dynamics if they bought a porsche or mercedes - but I'm sure Tesla can improve internally if it becomes a priority.

What would happen to Tesla's ability to sell directly to customers if they bought a company that has an established dealership network?
Fully agree. The fact that Tesla is a pure BEV company from its infancy used to be its weakness in the very beginning but has now become its greatest strength.

It's like building a house from scratch with your own architect and builders versus buying an old house and having to strip it to the core and renovate it. The latter is more expensive and you still end up either having to make sacrifices in your vision or having a lesser end result (not as new).

Tesla buying legacy OEMs would be a horrendous move. They'd be stuck with a lot they don't want, and would gain very little they can't just build out better themselves.
 
I'm guessing Tesla HVAC is introduced this year, with installations starting next year.

California Is Closing the Door to Gas in New Homes

"We are really ratcheting up the efficiency across the board," agency Commissioner Andrew McAllister said in an interview. "We anticipate that we'll be providing incentives for the market to scale up its adoption of heat pumps."

'Even San Francisco-based utility Pacific Gas and Electric Co., which has 5 million customers, said that it supports "local government policies that promote all-electric new construction."
 
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66.7% pure electric cars registered in Norway in December. And Tesla topped the list with the Model 3.

Pure fossils was 7.5% which leaves 25.8% for the hybrids.

ofv12.png

Source and complete list: Registreringsstatistikken | Opplysningsrådet for veitrafikken

For the whole year of 2020 pure electrics are at 54%, hybrids at 29% and fossils at 17%. The Audi e-tron was the most sold car of 2020 with 9,227 registered.

According to CleanTechnica 30,181 e-trons and 63,086 were sold in Europe in the first 11 months of 2020. In Norway in this 11 month period 8,773 e-trons and 3,538 Model 3s were sold.

Which means that Audi sells 29.1% and Tesla 5.6% of their total European sales in Norway in this 11 month period.

Source: Record Electric Vehicle Sales In Europe!
 
Thank you! I hadn't thought about this. As more people invest in the ARK funds, they get an influx of capital. If they just invest the new capital in their other holdings, they might be able to keep TSLA within bounds without selling it off. Their trades are public. Could someone look at the trades and figure out whether there was net buying? (I could do this if I was sober. Maybe tomorrow. Or the next day.)
Someone here had a chart a couple of months back that showed that the number of shares ARK had hadn't really changed much over the past year. Considering that Teslas share price had gone up 10x they would have had to sell 90% unless new investments made up for it. Normally a fund would never get enough new capital to more or less be able to keep their Tesla shares but ARK has grown incredible fast in 2020.
 



@truth_tesla

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4h

This is huge news: if GF3 alone makes 550k Teslas, then Fremont alone would bring 2021 Tesla production above 1 million units. Current Street expectations for 2021 are 777k units. Big TSLA price target upgrades if Tesla guides for 1m 2021 units in their Q4 earnings report.
https://twitter.com/truth_tesla/status/1346276277771243521

Interesting and would indeed be huge if true - but not really news, the tesmanian arcticle this is based on is from Nov 8.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Artful Dodger
Strongly agree. I can't imagine much worse for Tesla than trying to buy a legacy OEM - think of all the pension obligations, political issues, union labour issues, legacy dealership issues and mountains of debt that need to be addressed - and in return Tesla would get a bunch of factories that can't make their products without significant upgrades and thousands of employees with the wrong skillset. All this would be a black hole for Elon's limited available attention time at the expense of his focus on product development. He's already mentioned that GigaBerlin is a time suck for him due to all the red tape.

Tesla also likely wouldn't get many of the synergies to compliment their business that a successful merger should have. There's no new supercharger network to pick up, little IP of value, no software expertise, no cell manufacturing expertise. They could get some skill in fit/finish and potentially driving dynamics if they bought a porsche or mercedes - but I'm sure Tesla can improve internally if it becomes a priority.

What would happen to Tesla's ability to sell directly to customers if they bought a company that has an established dealership network?
Not sure why you highlight driving dynamics as an area where Tesla might gain skills from Porsche or Mercedes. In my view the Tesla team in this area is world leading and the technologies that they already have deployed (the physical design and the control mechanisms including specialist modes such as Track mode) and those already announced for Plaid and Cybertruck are ahead of the competition.

Completely agree with your overall point that buying a legacy OEM would not provide any benefits and would bring significant problems.
 
66.7% pure electric cars registered in Norway in December. And Tesla topped the list with the Model 3.

Pure fossils was 7.5% which leaves 25.8% for the hybrids.

View attachment 624425
Source and complete list: Registreringsstatistikken | Opplysningsrådet for veitrafikken

For the whole year of 2020 pure electrics are at 54%, hybrids at 29% and fossils at 17%. The Audi e-tron was the most sold car of 2020 with 9,227 registered.

According to CleanTechnica 30,181 e-trons and 63,086 were sold in Europe in the first 11 months of 2020. In Norway in this 11 month period 8,773 e-trons and 3,538 Model 3s were sold.

Which means that Audi sells 29.1% and Tesla 5.6% of their total European sales in Norway in this 11 month period.

Source: Record Electric Vehicle Sales In Europe!
At some point, gasoline sales will reach a tipping point where the market and need for gas stations will decline. It will be interesting to see how and when that plays out in these countries where EV adoption is rapidly occurring, esp. as the % of EVs within the national 'fleet' gradually changes over.
 
Not sure why you highlight driving dynamics as an area where Tesla might gain skills from Porsche or Mercedes. In my view the Tesla team in this area is world leading and the technologies that they already have deployed (the physical design and the control mechanisms including specialist modes such as Track mode) and those already announced for Plaid and Cybertruck are ahead of the competition.

Completely agree with your overall point that buying a legacy OEM would not provide any benefits and would bring significant problems.
from what I've read there's quite a few people who would prefer the Taycan for build quality and driving dynamics (e.g. Marques Brownlee). But I've never driven a Taycan so I can't compare first hand.
 
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At some point, gasoline sales will reach a tipping point where the market and need for gas stations will decline. It will be interesting to see how and when that plays out in these countries where EV adoption is rapidly occurring, esp. as the % of EVs within the national 'fleet' gradually changes over.

Report fra Norway; Many larger gas stations are building EV charging stations, and since before EVs where becoming a thing are making most their money anyway as expensive mini-marts with overpriced cofee, a small selection of groceries, bakery, fast food (Think Seven-Eleven) and extended opening hours.
 
My estimates for production are:

2021 : 900,000 (range 800,000 - 1,000,000)
2022 : 1,900,000 (range 1,700,000 - 2,000,000)
2023 : 3,500,000 (range 3,000,000 - 4,000,000)

Reasoning

They start 2021 with a production capacity of about 900k and will end it with capacity of about 1,350k so an average capacity of about 1,070 applying a factor of about 0,.85 to account for shutdowns and other factors limiting production below capacity that is about an annual production of 900k. It is possible to get a similar number by estimating weekly production. The main source of inaccuracy will be the speed of the ramp in Shanghai, Berlin and Austin, perfect execution could lead to considerable up-side. Current production rates mean that under 800k is unlikely unless there is a black swan event.

For 2022 production depends on how fast they can ramp up Berlin and Austin plus any further factory construction starting in the next few months, phase 2 of Berlin should start soon, Austin contractors have been told that construction will be 3 years instead of the initial 1.5 years, ground clearance implies further building starts soon, in Shanghai there is currently more construction of 3 or 4 smaller buildings and construction on the old watermelon patch looks like it will start soon. Reasonable execution will see capacity of 1,350k at the start of the year and 2,900k by the end of 2022.

Similar reasoning for 2023 sees average capacity of 4,200k from the existing factories and known expansion plans (end of 2023 should see Fremont 600k, Shanghai 1M, Berlin 1.2M and Austin 2M capacity). There is considerable upside from future gigafactories.

Outlook

Tesla Energy should also grow at approximately 100% a year, from guidance and the enormous potential.

Cost of production should continue to fall due to the learning curve (Wrights law, total production) and economies of scale (rate of production). Estimate by about 5% a year.

Software and services should grow at a faster rate than production.

Free cash flow should grow faster than production due to economies of scale.

Profits should grow faster than free cash flow.

Considerable up-side due to FSD Level 5/Robotaxi/Tesla Network.

Share price forecast

Assuming Tesla growth prospects look as good to analysts as they do now (but no FSD Level 5/Robotaxi/Tesla Network).

end 2021 : 1,500
end 2022 : 2,900
end 2023 : 5,000
 
To all those who question whether Tesla could manage one million vehicles in 2021 I offer the following:
Q4 2020 actual production 179,757 annualized 719,028
China Model Y is just beginning, Berlin will produce some vehicles in 2021. Fremont is still increasing. Probably 2021 will see increased volume of S and X. Frankly, it seems to me easier to envision one million that it is to imagine less.
As for battery supply, it is clear that this is one typical impediment to faster growth.
Other people can and will analyze this very closely. I simply look at the growth rate of BEV adoption in China, most of the EU and the prospects for many other countries. Then I think about the transition to 4680's by Panasonic, LG, and others plus Tesla itself. Then think about the fact that Tesla is currently using cells produced by most leading manufacturers other than BYD.
We can be very precise about all this. We cannot really be very accurate right now. Some, like @Troy Teslike and @The Accountant are adept at short term forecasts, and revive them rapidly as information improves. When we look at 2021 we have a plethora of major unknowns:
1. How quickly will Covid-19 be contained?
2. How likely is it that the US environmental policies will be adopted quickly enough to drive significant renewables and BEV demand?
3. When will GF Brandenburg have significant volumes?
4. Will Texas permit direct sales this year? Will GF Austin begin producing something?
5. How quickly will GF Shanghai ramp up volumes?
6. How quickly will all the planned 2021 Superchargers, Service facilities, sales facilities and shipping infrastructure ramp? Specifically will rail from Shanghai to Europe materialize reducing shipping time by half or better? How about shipping capacity? Port processing times?

All of those questions are quite material for 2021. As @Mr Miserable has shown, there are major port processing, and transshipment issues (e.g. Panama Canal). Mostly we all ignore all those issues but in aggregate they become gigantic constraints now that Tesla will be transporting a million vehicles rather than half a million.

These are issues that have caused most major oems to establish factories all over the world. Tesla is moving at breakneck speed, unprecedented. Regularly TSLA factories have done the seemingly impossible and had major problems doing it. Now we're imagining nearly doubling of all the infrastructure to accommodate 2021 and be ready for 2022.

If ever this has been tricky to forecast 2021 is far more so. Personally I think they will do it plus amazing ramp in TE. This will be, as the legendary Chinese saying goes "life in interesting times".
 
29A9DBE9-9798-4BBA-933F-1356DF83B74D.jpeg
Yesterday I realized that a local pest control company is rocking a model 3. I’ve used them in the past but pretty sure they just earned a customer for life. ;)




Sorry if this has been posted already but toilet boy is now shorting ARK?
Stanphyl Capital December 2020: Short ARKK - ValueWalk

What a clown. That is perhaps the dumbest move of all time. Why doesn't he just short the S&P

I guess it’s time to buy some calls on ARKK. Thanks for the tip toilet boy.
 
"For December 2020 the fund was up 1.1% net of all fees and expenses. By way of comparison, the S&P 500 was up 3.8% while the Russell 2000 was up 8.7%. For 2020 the fund finished down 11.5% while the S&P 500 was up 18.4% and the Russell 2000 was up 20.0%. Since inception on June 1, 2011 the fund is up 36.1% net while the S&P 500 is up 240.4% and the Russell 2000 is up 166.0%. Since inception the fund has compounded at 3.3% net annually vs 13.6% for the S&P 500 and 10.8% for the Russell 2000."

Marky Mark doing great over time. Not sure how happy Stanley and Phyllis are. LOL.

At this point, I believe some of our newer members from 2018 might have AUM rivalling him.
Yet he still somehow manages to maintain a house bigger than mine...
 
Is that tally current? Because, I thought the S&P 500 tracking funds needed to (cumulatively) own ~130 million shares? If they currently only own 55+ million, the buying isn't done yet then!
This is getting annoying. S&P based funds NEVER have to own a fixed number of shares: the own (or compare their holdings to) a WEIGHT which is a percentage fraction of their total capital.

On Dec 31, 2020, TSLA's weight in the S&P 500 index was 1.690187% so if an index fund had $100 B in assets under managment, they'd want about $1.69B worth of TSLA (NOT a fixed number of shares).

The number of shares they buy or sell would be determined by the Closing SP. Do the math.

But here's the point: it's absolute NONSENSE to imagine ANY scheme where the S&P Committee could tell an individual fund how many shares to buy. The Committee does NOT know how much capital any particular fund manages on a day-to-day basis. Look at how fast ARK Invest is attracting capital. You think they make daily reports to S&P DJI?

Bah! /rant
 
66.7% pure electric cars registered in Norway in December. And Tesla topped the list with the Model 3.

Pure fossils was 7.5% which leaves 25.8% for the hybrids.

View attachment 624425
Source and complete list: Registreringsstatistikken | Opplysningsrådet for veitrafikken

For the whole year of 2020 pure electrics are at 54%, hybrids at 29% and fossils at 17%. The Audi e-tron was the most sold car of 2020 with 9,227 registered.

According to CleanTechnica 30,181 e-trons and 63,086 were sold in Europe in the first 11 months of 2020. In Norway in this 11 month period 8,773 e-trons and 3,538 Model 3s were sold.

Which means that Audi sells 29.1% and Tesla 5.6% of their total European sales in Norway in this 11 month period.

Source: Record Electric Vehicle Sales In Europe!
I have engaged in a few lively online 'debates' in the UK about the merits of EVs. The same tired old negative reasons come up regularly: 'they don't work well in winter', 'what if you have to drive a long distance', 'how can normal people afford EVs' etc etc, you all know the drill..
To which the short answer would appear to be: 'but Norway...'.