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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

tachyon

Member
Oct 13, 2016
146
805
Milwaukee
Just curious
Does any one have an updated list of current institutional holders of TSLA?
With the news of Blackrock owning 50 million shares , I wonder how that’s affecting the available free flaot.
 
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Reactions: Lessmog

HG Wells

Martian Embassy
Apr 5, 2016
2,079
15,146
Visas Tuesdays 2-4
OT:
Noob question: is it safe to store more than $4m worth of TSLA in 1 brokerage? or is it better to divide the stocks up to multiple brokerage?

I have three and trade differently in each.
One, just stock.
Another one stock where I sell calls and sell puts.
Third one mostly Leaps.

Which one makes the most ? It varies with time.
 

lklundin

Active Member
Oct 10, 2014
2,972
20,323
Bavaria
If TSLA had Bitcoin would it be disclosed on the 10K?

I’m sure Musk would have taken a call from Michael Saylor before this conference.

MSTR is at ATH and continuing to climb.

Uptrend on BTC despite no news and equities market still outperforming..

View attachment 634330

With SpaceX being serious about Mars colonization I can see how the company would have an interest in crypto-currency.

On the assumption that a crypto-currency would actually be adopted in a bi-planetary economy, I would however expect SpaceX to introduce their own crypto-currency. Otherwise the introduction of the currency would cause a massive transfer of wealth to existing holders of that currency. But if SpaceX instead introduce their own, then members of that economy (and in fact everyone) could mine this new currency, avoiding (or at least evening out) the cost of introducing it.

I struggle to find a good analogy, but a crypto-currency is a bit like a pyramid-scheme in that the inventors (can) start out ahead of everyone else, giving them a notable financial advantage.

For the same reason, I would never expect any (well-functioning) state to adopt and back a pre-existing crypto-currency, when they can just make and back their own.

As for Tesla, I struggle to see the relevance of a crypto-currency but that could just be yet another case of my lack of ability to see future developments that Elon Musk already have in mind.

PS. Now I see it: Dojo and maybe also every FSD board will be especially suitable for mining this new crypto-currency. :)
 

joh01652

Supporting Member
Jun 29, 2019
391
5,518
Teslaland
I've been impressed with how well Autopilot drives in the snow and slush already (including other low visibility conditions like a drenching rain). As the system improves I believe it will eventually be more safe than most humans. Tesla might need to retrofit side camera heaters in order to handle the nastier snow/slush conditions.
I agree that over time the system will improve for driving in inclement weather--just have to give Tesla time to figure it out. IMHO a simple remedy for FSD in snowy/rainy weather would be to simply install cameras on the inside of the vehicle with heating elements to defrost the glass where the cameras peer out of. Humans can drive in poor visibility conditions because their eyes are not obscured by outside elements. Why mount the side repeaters and back-up cameras outside without coverings where they get obscured? Why not install them inside of glass, like the three forward-facing and B-pillar cameras? Maybe mount cameras on the bottom of the A-pillars so that they can see out the side windows, like a human? Cameras take up little space, I'm sure they could be mounted such that they don't interfere with entering and exiting the vehicle.

A problem I find with both the forward facing and B pillar cameras is that they don't have a defrost process for the glass where the camera lenses mount--the cameras are often frosted over for me, rendering AP useless until I clear the frost off. To employ a vision-based FSD system, it seems most prudent to make camera visibility the top priority, which means cameras inside and processes to keep windows moisture-free.
 

Hock1

Member
Jan 21, 2017
678
6,353
Ponte Vedra Beach, Florida

lklundin

Active Member
Oct 10, 2014
2,972
20,323
Bavaria
I’ve heard Idra is a daughter of a Chinese company. So Tesla would have to buy that one.

Where do you hear it?

Per the company's web-page Idra was founded in 1946 in Italy by an Italian family on the business model that it has today.
They have a subsidiary in Shanghai (since when?) - as well as in Germany, USA and Mexico.

CONTATTI
 

Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
11,628
15,659
NC
Just curious
Does any one have an updated list of current institutional holders of TSLA?
With the news of Blackrock owning 50 million shares , I wonder how that’s affecting the available free flaot.


As noted earlier, Blackrock already owned 38 million shares in Sept 2020.

The added 12 million appear to be reflecting their S&P500 index funds inclusion of Tesla and thus isn't really "news" at all.

Anyway quick summary of typical reporting obligations of large holders here-including how often/when each obligation is reportable

SEC Reporting Obligations under Section 13 of the Exchange Act – A Primer for Investment Managers: Hodgson Russ LLP

quick summary of obligations said:
An investment manager (and, in some cases, its parent company or other control persons) generally will have a Section 13 reporting obligation if the firm directly or indirectly:

beneficially owns, in the aggregate, more than 5% of a class of voting equity securities that are registered under Section 12 of the Exchange Act and traded on U.S. exchanges (referred to herein as Schedule 13 Securities) See Section A, Schedules 13D and 13G below.
manages discretionary accounts that, in the aggregate, hold equity securities trading on a U.S. national securities exchange with an aggregate fair market value of $100 million or more. (See Section B, Form 13F below); or
manages discretionary accounts that trade in NMS securities (generally exchange-listed equity securities and standardized options as described below of at least (i) 2 million shares or shares with a fair market value of over $20 million during a day, or (ii) 20 million shares or shares with a fair market value of over $200 million during a calendar month (see Section C, Form 13H: below).
 

jbcarioca

Well-Known Member
Feb 3, 2015
5,164
24,318
Right. Do we expect Tesla to acquire Idra - or is their know-how too easy for the (eventually coming) competition to copy?
Several points:
1. IDRA, although family-owned in inception and still positioned that way,
2. is actually owned by LK, a Hong Kong public company that also was a family company originally, and,
3. They both supply many leading industrial companies and both have a fair variety of casting machines. LK has a wide array of injection molding machines too.
4. Given their combined structure and their strength in industry I would be surprised and shocked were Tesla to acquire them or any part of them. As it is Tesla is undoubtably one of the most important customers for the most prestigious and technology-challenging products. I fully expect their relationships to deepen.
5. One crucial factor in gigantic presses is the metallurgy and related materials engineering that are mandatory to successfully deploy these gigantic machines. Today it is not unreasonable to suggest that Tesla is one of a tiny group which could hope to successfully deploy such machines.

So, outright purchase? -almost certainly not (never say 'impossible'!).
Exceedingly strong cooperative alliance- exists today and is growing.
Tesla Grohmann certainly seems critical to this process as is SpaceX.
 

tachyon

Member
Oct 13, 2016
146
805
Milwaukee
As noted earlier, Blackrock already owned 38 million shares in Sept 2020.

The added 12 million appear to be reflecting their S&P500 index funds inclusion of Tesla and thus isn't really "news" at all.

Anyway quick summary of typical reporting obligations of large holders here-including how often/when each obligation is reportable

SEC Reporting Obligations under Section 13 of the Exchange Act – A Primer for Investment Managers: Hodgson Russ LLP
Thank you.
 

wtlloyd

Member
Sep 14, 2019
158
896
Seattle
You know, we're acting like Tesla invented this, but for what it's worth, Progressive has had a program like this that changes your rates based on driving behavior:

Snapshot Rewards You for Good Driving

If I remember right originally it was a box you installed in the car, though that page makes it look like maybe you can do it with an app? I didn't watch the video so maybe you still need a box. It could make a difference if we only had it track trips by one driver not the other... and it would certainly show less "hard acceleration" if we had it track the minivan instead of the Tesla. :)

Nevertheless, I haven't yet decided to take my chances on being in the unlucky 20%.

Newly insured by Progressive in my new home state, I opted for the Snapshot program. It entailed connecting a dongle (two were provided to me by Progressive) into each vehicles OBD-II port. I drove around for 4 months with additional caution, but I am not an aggressive driver in any case. After 4 months they sent me a pre-paid mailing box to return the dongles.
My rates were immediately reduced 30% and have remained low in the ensuing 4 years.
 

goinfraftw

Supporting Member
Jan 1, 2017
659
5,701
USA

goinfraftw

Supporting Member
Jan 1, 2017
659
5,701
USA
Since fantasy Apple mashups are a perennial pastime, I'd like to suggest the Apply acquire Robinhood. Apple has the cash and treasury capabilities to backup a brokerage. Robinhood easily fits in with Apple Cash and other Apple services. Robinhood's reputation is toast and needs strong backing that Apple could provide to rehabilitate the brand.

Apple and Robinhood. It's like buttah. Talk amongst yourselves.

CnKZ3q3.png

...thinking about this over the weekend, wouldn't Vanguard be another option?
 
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jbcarioca

Well-Known Member
Feb 3, 2015
5,164
24,318
Newly insured by Progressive in my new home state, I opted for the Snapshot program. It entailed connecting a dongle (two were provided to me by Progressive) into each vehicles OBD-II port. I drove around for 4 months with additional caution, but I am not an aggressive driver in any case. After 4 months they sent me a pre-paid mailing box to return the dongles.
My rates were immediately reduced 30% and have remained low in the ensuing 4 years.
I've been with Progressive for years. When I owned very fast and conspicuous cars they gave me great rates. When I bought a P85D they did it again. In 2018 My not-yet-one -week-old P3D was severely damaged when a friend was driving in another country. Progressive told me the accident would not count against me and did a stellar job of coordinating repair. The car has been perfect ever since. That is the only claim I have ever had so I've no other experience. Progressive actually dropped my rates again while the P3D was still in the collision repair shop. For me they're unbeatable.
Were it anybody else I'd look at Tesla insurance, but I cannot leave Progressive.
They seem to ignore my advanced age. I do keep having Safe Driver FL license, although I wonder how given the vehicles I keep driving.

In 2014 many insurers would not look at a Tesla. Now I'm sure it si very different. It would be interesting to know how comparable cars are rated today in comparison. That would affect cost of ownership, but hopefully is no longer a factor.
 

hacer

Active Member
Apr 13, 2016
1,067
4,453
Clarksville, MD
Apple talked to all the German automakers a year ago, including BMW.

They are said Nein to becoming Foxconn of cars. They wanted a share of software/subscription revenue to make the Apple car.

According to reports there are senior executives within Kia that don't want to become the Foxconn of cars.
Of course Magna Steyr is the Foxconn of cars. The curious question is why didn't Apple go to them?
 

StealthP3D

Well-Known Member
Dec 12, 2018
8,947
67,369
Maple Falls, WA
Same conditions, though mostly highway driving for me in last few weeks. I needed to be deliberate to wipe off front sensors and radar before driving and at charging stops. Was able to have autopilot and FSD available or on for most of the driving, but there were some instances where it was lost entirely. That sucks on a highway, where now you can’t even use basic cruise control because Tesla doesn’t default to that. It’s adaptive cruise or nothing.

There are hydrophobic sprays that can be applied to reduce slop getting stuck to the sensors but heaters will be used on actual robo-taxis. People and cars have been adapting to adverse driving conditions since the advent of the automobile.
 

StealthP3D

Well-Known Member
Dec 12, 2018
8,947
67,369
Maple Falls, WA
Of course Magna Steyr is the Foxconn of cars. The curious question is why didn't Apple go to them?

No, they are not. To be the Foxconn of cars you need a big contract with Apple who will squeeze you relentlessly until you cry "uncle".

I suspect Apple did try to flex their muscle with Magna Steyr but they probably were disinterested. Because Apple acts like everyone needs to bow down to them and Magna Styr knows they are not the Foxconn of cars and don't want to become the Foxconn of cars. The Apple team probably flew back home feeling indignation at how Magna Styr wouldn't show any respect to them. :oops:
 
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StealthP3D

Well-Known Member
Dec 12, 2018
8,947
67,369
Maple Falls, WA

capster

Supporting Member
Aug 11, 2018
890
6,740
An island planet
I think it should be clarified, Tesla doesn't know how YOU drive, they only how a specific car is driven. There could be multiple drivers sharing the vehicle. Or if you were the only driver of two different Tesla's, you might drive them very differently.

Point to point arm movements by humans exhibit a characteristic skewed bell shaped velocity profile.

It seems highly likely that you could identify a driver simply from how they turn the steering wheel alone, especially if you’re trying to discriminate between a few drivers.

Add in the rest of the driving data, allow a bit of time for observations and you could probably identify one person out of a fairly large number of drivers.

Of course, you could just go by the driver profile the driver selects before they set out.

Or, use the routes and locations the vehicle frequents.

Or, figure out what smart phones or smart watches are in the vehicle.

Or, use the inside camera.

Hmm, is it me or does it seem like privacy could be a fading luxury?
 

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