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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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You just inspired me .. :)

I have neither money, nor margin left right now.

But i could sell 5x (2x Long 300$ Apr PUT , 1x Short 610$ Jun PUT) for a net credit of 37k$ & my margin requirements went down by 2k .. yes. i got paid 37k + 2 more k on available margin.

This is how we play the game, right?

Of course this is in no way financial advice. You will lose the 400$ for the 300$-Puts in that thingy in April & margin-requirements will skyrocket if tesla doesn't go up & then it is only ramen for months while my wifes boyfriend has fun with her at their place ... :D

But you gotta do, what you gotta do if you want to steal from the rich bullies on wall street .. ;)

Edit: I forgot: I just like the TSLA-Stock ;)

I don't understand this. You say you have no margin left, yet you enter into a contract that obligates you to buy shares on margin - if the stock price moves against you. Yes, if nothing unusual happens with the Tesla share price you will be fine - but when has that ever been a safe bet? - and if you lose that bet, you will get a margin call - and beware this can most certainly also happen if the stock price momentarily moves against you _at_any_moment_before_ expiry - without the contracts even having to have moved ITM.
 
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what else could be up? what else is staring us in the face they we will inevitably and collectively “facepalm” ourselves when it happens.

If the casting process is really delivering, it could be related to a price drop. This would explain the stepback on the Semi related to battery supply. I had thought that sharing of the charging network was a kind of result/confirmation of battery production success but seeing the Semi pushed to 2022 due to batteries does not support a battery fabrication success.

Seems like perhaps a price drop will result in demand that consumes battery resources and that could come from casting results as well as battery pricing.

Add cost saving possible from the Cybertruck metal exoskelton, battery economics and casting under-carriage and the vehicle demand could pop as a result of price drops.
 
what else could be up? what else is staring us in the face they we will inevitably and collectively “facepalm” ourselves when it happens.

The only thing I can think of which is "crazy / obvious" enough to propel Tesla to a whole new level at plaid speed is .... Level 5 FSD.

"Crazy" in that its a whole new world and market once anyone truly solves autonomy. Reaching that milestone opens an immense new virgin world wide business segment for whoever does it, This would be disruptive change the likes of which we haven't seen in a century, maybe ever. Whoever is first to market here will reap incredible rewards for doing so.

"Obvious" in that we've all seen the videos of the FSD beta as it currently is and how fast it's progressing now. Tesla is close, so very close. FSD has all the features and tools it needs to be Level 5 now, it simply needs training on edge cases, it needs to learn a bit more yet. And Musk himself has said he expects Level 5 FSD this year. We can choose to think thats on "Elon Time" and it will actually happen a few years from now, but honestly with the current state of FSD progression it really wouldn't be too surprising if he was correct.

Personally I feel Tesla is still years away from Level 5 FSD. Truthfully though, I only feel that way because it seems unlikely and incredible Tesla could get there this year, because if they do then the stock will probably explode upward lightning fast. The realist in me can't fathom we TSLA investors get that lucky that quickly, not again (2020). However, looking at the evidence we have at hand from a practical point of view, I have to admit this is a possibility. A rather decent possibility.
 
So outdated, antiquated and not worth a pot.

I get this is where you spent much of your career life and that you’ve done and seen good in the sector. But it’s also full of theives, cheats and inadequate persons and needs a good closet cleaning.

For the record, I’ll talk just as frankly about my industry; also full of unsavory sorts and minimally talented.
Frankly that is slightly overstated. For the record the part of my career spent on this subject was a largely futile process to bring one rating agency ( won't say which one) into the present day. The processes and overall system were designed to meet the needs of nearly a century ago and have been resistant to change. Part for he reason si that the regulatory process for most institutional investors is itself antiquated and resistant to change. In my effort to explain all this and state the relevant implications I do NOT attempt to defend the system as is. Anybody who lived through Penn Central, Enron, LTCM, AIG, the mortgage industry meltdown and subsequent near-failure of hundreds of the world's major banks cannot in good conscience suggest that the risk management systems anywhere in finance are even remotely adequate.

So please do not ever suggest that I have "seen good in the sector". Understanding it and it's market consequences is not in any way analogous to a defense. Please, please understand that.

Two specific statistical concepts explain why nearly all the financial industry is so inadequate in managing risk. Those are 'multi collinearity' and 'boundary conditions'. Those two concepts are commonly ignored in financial industry analytics, including by Nobel Prize winners with disastrous consequences.

Finally, the method of compensation for rating agencies itself guarantees poor results since it is issuer-based. Will prolific issuers have better ratings than do infrequent ones? Is Ford paying more than Tesla?

So once again please do not ever suggest I defend the system. On three separate occasions I worked with regulators to try to establish better control. I was paid, but nothing was done. Why? Just check who has been US Secretary of the Treasury when these various disasters have happened. [self regulation does not work]. Then check which industries make the most political contributions and to whom. After that examine the exact wording of financial services legislation; much of that is nearly identical to lobbyist submissions.

That said, the market reactions to all this are also driven in large part by market-makers. I have made numerous posts about the consequences of that. So has @AudubonB and others. The industry itself is built explicitly to reward market-makers for volatility. Many people here think about FUD. That is futile. Remember that the changes to the SEC and other 'enforcement' entities were largely dismantled during the last few years eliminating nearly all the protections that once existed, specifically including the 'uptick rule', 'naked shorts' and several related rules. There are indeed some rules, but market makers can easily avoid almost all of them, and SEC enforcement has tended to ignore the most influential players (that is my opinion, some might dispute it's accuracy). The SEC budget has slightly risen in the last five years so there is a prima facie suggestion that there are adequate resources, itself disingenuous in my personal opinion.

If I responded too verbosely I apologize. I do not take kindly suggestions that I might have been superficial and biased in favor of those who paid me. No doubt, that is a 'rating agency style defense", so I say it before you can.


~~~And within the "Of Merit" thread this post now sits. Thank you for the contribution.~~~
 
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This

This has the capacity to be a main source of influence on the public.

Two levels.
Making changes to the city's laws so all taxis in NYC become electric would get ride exposure up in one of the largest tourist destinations in the world. People would get a passive exposure to the ride, safety, and comfort of a Tesla. And then having a measurable reduction in noise and air pollution on a city street level would accelerate the mission.
 
FWIW that is the latest securities-based valuation, not worth. After all SpaceX is not a public company so we have no idea what the financials might be.
Their financials obviously suck. They are burning cash.

The first mover advantage and moat they are creating by being so far ahead technologically is priceless.

Just ask the ESA and what their plans are to respond to the SpaceX competition. ☺️🤣
 
If the casting process is really delivering, it could be related to a price drop. This would explain the stepback on the Semi related to battery supply. I had thought that sharing of the charging network was a kind of result/confirmation of battery production success but seeing the Semi pushed to 2022 due to batteries does not support a battery fabrication success.

Seems like perhaps a price drop will result in demand that consumes battery resources and that could come from casting results as well as battery pricing.

Add cost saving possible from the Cybertruck metal exoskelton, battery economics and casting under-carriage and the vehicle demand could pop as a result of price drops.
Also, if Biden announces a multi-year, uncapped, $7500 EV tax credit next week (or soon), that could really influence how Tesla allocates cells
 
Their financials obviously suck. They are burning cash.

The first mover advantage and moat they are creating by being so far ahead technologically is priceless.

Just ask the ESA and what their plans are to respond to the SpaceX competition. ☺️🤣
SN11 is tentatively scheduled to fly 3/29, possibly same day ARKX goes public, a nice juxtaposition although i don’t think SpaceX will be in ARKX

(please Cathie Wood if you have lurkers here, “make it so”, ‘Engage!’ “)
 
4F137D78-E808-4C76-94EC-01232200629F.jpeg

What can we make from this?
 
That said, the market reactions to all this are also driven in large part by market-makers. I have made numerous posts about the consequences of that. So has @AudubonB and others. The industry itself is built explicitly to reward market-makers for volatility. Many people here think about FUD. That is futile. Remember that the changes to the SEC and other 'enforcement' entities were largely dismantled during the last few years eliminating nearly all the protections that once existed, specifically including the 'uptick rule', 'naked shorts' and several related rules. There are indeed some rules, but market makers can easily avoid almost all of them, and SEC enforcement has tended to ignore the most influential players (that is my opinion, some might dispute it's accuracy). The SEC budget has slightly risen in the last five years so there is a prima facie suggestion that there are adequate resources, itself disingenuous in my personal opinion.

If I responded too verbosely I apologize. I do not take kindly suggestions that I might have been superficial and biased in favor of those who paid me. No doubt, that is a 'rating agency style defense", so I say ti before you can.
Love this post so much, and the preceding sentiments by @Krugerrand. THIS is how you have a weekend OT discussion!

I've been an ultra-annoying poster the last couple months, even gone so far as to invite my first two(2!) bannings, but I think it's primarily due to ambivalence about all these shenanigans posted above. The GME situation was just the straw that broke my cerebral cortex. Every day I stream Bloomberg for at least a portion of the morning to grab the business news. And every day I see the JPMorgan spot where they claim to help customers "explore the other side of volatility", essentially advertising they trade on somewhat inside information or some such advantage.

Hedge funds could reliably bring in billions until Warren Buffet figured out that the fees ruin any questionable investing advantage they had, so now they make money off inorganic volatility. Adding to that a supremely lax regulatory environment....and you get the Gamestop situation, which is really just an extreme example of everything we've seen with TSLA for years and year.

At the risk of an unprecedented 3rd(1) banning, and with all respect to our wonderful mods(no sarcasm), I would again ask the good people of TMC to dissect the GME situation and continue the conversation with this very much still alive experiment as a backdrop. The power these clowns have is unfathomable in this window of zero regulation, it's like Gordon Gecko if there were no repercussions.
 
At the risk of an unprecedented 3rd(1) banning, and with all respect to our wonderful mods(no sarcasm), I would again ask the good people of TMC to dissect the GME situation and continue the conversation with this very much still alive experiment as a backdrop. The power these clowns have is unfathomable in this window of zero regulation, it's like Gordon Gecko if there were no repercussions.
I feel your pain on GameStop but it seems to me it is about Reddit and WSB more than the tool (in this case GME). In that same vein, I managed to watch a few minutes of the Congressional hearings involving Jack Dorsey and Zuckerberg. Congress seems to be getting a "little" bit more knowledgeable but not much. I will say that I don't know too much about Dorsey but rarely have I wanted to reach into the screen and pull an arrogant jerk out for a little one on one discussion. Assholery on clear display with Dorsey and Zuck living up to his SNL parody.

GME is not good for tech and neither was this hearing IMO. I really can't feel good about what is about to disrupt tech in a general sense.
 
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Weekend moonshot idea. So Elon has been pretty adamant that Starlink may not work with smaller vehicles, but that's current generation. What if Tesla is able to integrate some sort of Starlink connectivity, and then use the fleet/robotaxi vehicles to create a ground based wifi mesh? This could potentially bring in additional revenue for Tesla and allow Starlink to penetrate denser urban areas that it's stand alone service is less likely to be popular. This would work best in a model like Googlefi, where your phone prioritizes google hotspots but will use cellular data when necessary.


Side note, did they adjust the colors on the forum? The contrast between quoted text and your own text seems larger and text itself is easier to read. Or perhaps I just adjusted.
FWIW that is the latest securities-based valuation, not worth. After all SpaceX is not a public company so we have no idea what the financials might be.
They obviously won't, but if SpaceX had an IPO next week I'm sure it would be worth several times the current $74 billion valuation.
 
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Weekend moonshot idea. So Elon has been pretty adamant that Starlink may not work with smaller vehicles, but that's current generation. What if Tesla is able to integrate some sort of Starlink connectivity, and then use the fleet/robotaxi vehicles to create a ground based wifi mesh? This could potentially bring in additional revenue for Tesla and allow Starlink to penetrate denser urban areas that it's stand alone service is less likely to be popular. This would work best in a model like Googlefi, where your phone prioritizes google hotspots but will use cellular data when necessary.


Side note, did they adjust the colors on the forum? The contrast between quoted text and your own text seems larger and text itself is easier to read. Or perhaps I just adjusted.

They obviously won't, but if SpaceX had an IPO next week I'm sure it would be worth several times the current $74 billion valuation.

Your idea raises a really important question for me, one which would have to be answered before the discussion could proceed any further.

Would Adam Jonas be redeemed?