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MotorTrend published more performance numbers from their S Plaid testing. Included are numbers comparing with other top mass production cars they've tested.

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Most normies have no idea just how stupid and lame ICE cars are going to seem in a few years... By 2027 Tesla's performance lineup will probably look something like this:

Model S/X Plaid: 1,500hp AWD & 500 miles of range for ~$140k
Model 3/Y Plaid: 900hp AWD & 450 miles of range for ~$70k
Model 2/Z Plaid: 600hp AWD & 400miles of range for ~$45k
 
Saw this recently published article in the EV1. If they understood the battery was the limiting factor why did they not continue when Lithium Ion became available?

From my experience in the auto industry there is little room for a business that cannot clearly make money on day 1. This is likely the reason it was killed.

Multiple reasons - watch this doc:

 
Saw this recently published article in the EV1. If they understood the battery was the limiting factor why did they not continue when Lithium Ion became available?

From my experience in the auto industry there is little room for a business that cannot clearly make money on day 1. This is likely the reason it was killed.

There’s a whole movie on the EV1 - free to watch here: Who Killed the Electric Car? (2006) | WatchDocumentaries.com
 
Most normies have no idea just how stupid and lame ICE cars are going to seem in a few years... By 2027 Tesla's performance lineup will probably look something like this:

Model S/X Plaid: 1,500hp AWD & 500 miles of range for ~$140k
Model 3/Y Plaid: 900hp AWD & 450 miles of range for ~$70k
Model 2/Z Plaid: 600hp AWD & 400miles of range for ~$45k


Model 3 never even got ludicrous, despite Elon originally promising it would.... so it seems Tesla decided their top performance branding was only for their top-tier (by price) vehicles.

I've seen no indication they've changed their minds on that- though I suppose it's possible you'd see Lud come to the 3/Y now that S/X have gone to Plaid.
 
Well yes it is, very much so. They are trying to force Tesla to give away FSD software, they tried to steal it and that didn't work. Now they are trying to force it, same with Wamo, Rivian, etc. China's industrial policy is pretty bad, without morality.
It is slightly jingoistic to imagine that industrial espionage and reverse engineering are uniquely Chinese habits. During a couple of decades I was paid to help accomplish such goals by several major companies. My clients for such were almost all US companies at the time.

It is ever thus. Boeing and Airbus have sued each other for decades. Suppliers for some well regarded producer are often engaged for a competitor. Others just do competitor tear downs while cheapskates hire the Sandy Munros to do it.

To blame China for learning how to compete successfully and manufacturing efficiently is disingenuous at best. To ascribe nefarious motives is the invarible recourse of those who are losing competively.

I do not suggest that Chinese firms always ‘play fair’. However they do not routinely evade the rules any more than do others.

My first visit to a Chinese factory was in 1978. My last was in 2020. I ascribe the difference to very hard work, fast innovation and study of nearly every subject.

Bluntly, they do just fine with their own innovation. When they need something they buy it, as in Maglev. Now they know more about maglev than do the people who sold it to them.

Tesla understands all of that. Probably that is why their largest battery supplier, CATL is supplying complete packs when nobody else is.
 
Honestly it read like Elon had an every 3 month reminder come up on his phone "SEND EOQ PUSH EMAIL" and he just shot something out from obligation because it's expected at this point, not because it's needed.
Past EOQ push was very animated. Stocks getting crush, bankruptcy imminent, show the world what we are made of, we must take a stand...

This time is like "hey we are doing well but yeah push hard guys anyway".
 
Model 3 never even got ludicrous, despite Elon originally promising it would.... so it seems Tesla decided their top performance branding was only for their top-tier (by price) vehicles.

I've seen no indication they've changed their minds on that- though I suppose it's possible you'd see Lud come to the 3/Y now that S/X have gone to Plaid.

I probably should have explained, but "plaid" is just an insert for whatever they name their top of the line performance model.

Not only do I think Tesla could easily hit all of those performance numbers by 2027, I think they could do it with a lower manufacturing cost than they currently have for today's performance models (2/Z excluded, of course).

The energy density of 4680 cells at a <$60/KWh cost is the death of ICE autos with mathematical certainty.
 
It is slightly jingoistic to imagine that industrial espionage and reverse engineering are uniquely Chinese habits. During a couple of decades I was paid to help accomplish such goals by several major companies. My clients for such were almost all US companies at the time.

It is ever thus. Boeing and Airbus have sued each other for decades. Suppliers for some well regarded producer are often engaged for a competitor. Others just do competitor tear downs while cheapskates hire the Sandy Munros to do it.

This doesn't feel like a fair comparison: one an opaque, authoritarian country of effectively limitless resources, and the others are some individual, publicly-traded companies.
 
no calls, no puts, no short term positions of any kind. I merely own roughly 6,500 shares of Tesla stock. and i'd appreciate it if they could put together a professional presentation for major livestreamed events.
i agree with you that the Model S's specs are insane, and that the Y turned out to be a great car. But these awful, unwatchable events need a major overhaul. as a shareholder, they are materially damaging.
I believe the company that you want to invest in is found here
.
Their presentations are totally top notch - just what you are looking for.
 
This doesn't feel like a fair comparison: one an opaque, authoritarian country of effectively limitless resources, and the others are some individual, publicly-traded companies.
That depends on perspective.

Considering that the US companies in question have senior executives regularly passing into cabinet level and the Senate-approved slots just below then returning to their private sectors jobs one could easily argue similarly about the US. President Eisenhower gave it a name, the Military-Industrial complex, although he left out the financial industry.

The "opaque, authoritarian" and "effectively limitless resources" are again statements that beg for clarity and explicit foundation.

I am not arguing at all that the Chinese and US systems are equivalent. I am arguing that there are always ambiguities that make broad generalizations very risky. For example the Chinese system is only "opaque, authoritarian" to people who do not understand it. In actual demonstrable fact there are municipal and regional powers that tend to constrain national power. Of course they feature the easily described monolithic 'Communist' title.

My objective in raising these issues is only to point out that Tesla has a large contingent of senior executives who understand that complexity and nuance. They also have thrived in that system and managed to do so with 100% ownership. One amaro way that Tesla has maintained that is by conforming to Shanghai government labor conventions, by using Chinese suppliers as essentially Tier One (e.g. CATL) and developing exports rapidly. Further, Tesla knows and deploys Chinese publicity and approval devices with great effectiveness. Most clearly and most misunderstood is how Tesla manages to deal with conflict resolution. Those include two that have been completely misunderstood in the Occident. First, the infamous 'Model 3 brake failure' and 'military Tesla prohibition' incidents. Tesla has managed to deal with both quietly and effectively. On Tier One status also is IDRA, Italian by positioning but 100% Chinese. Tesla, by facilitating those technological marvels that are Gingapresses. That one is a precedent-setting development.

That Tesla knows how to operate effectively in China in quite evident. To the Occidentals it is 'generally known' that those 'opaque, authoritarian' people are not trustworthy or predictable, besides they 'steal our ideas and intellectual property'. The Gigapress story and CATL are just two cases in which mutual benefit is happening.

It is easily worth a minimum of 30% of TSLA value that they are fully integrated into China, pretty much unlike any other foreign company. Those two Tier One cases are just examples. There are many others.

We all should try harder to actually understand rather than casting political rhetoric.

My last point is that there simply are no perfect systems but there are some which work well in a given environment. Tesla gives us enormous value by dealing with the environment that exists rather than an idealistic vision of what might be. Now we need to find out how they'll manage the prohibition of direct sales in Texas.
 
Here’s a little on-topic something to lighten the mood

B of A analyst note:

In a best case scenario, Murphy said falling EV costs over time will likely ultimately result in a better, lower-cost product for consumers.

Legacy automakers and suppliers will be able to transition from internal combustion engine vehicles to EVs slowly over time without having to significantly reduce jobs or take large writedowns on ICE assets and facilities, the analyst said
.

Thank goodness! I’m going all in on GM and F!
 
My final comment on the political comments being made.
The legitimate point it that Tesla is worth more because they know how to navigate a wide array of political and regulatory conditions.
That all of us have different ideas and political preferences is quite appropriate. We might better understand how adept Tesla is and consequently how much more valuable our TSLA shares are. This also explains yet another area of sustainable competitive advantage. This one is only indirectly related to the mission, but it is essential to accomplishing the Tesla mission.

Regardless of our specific views we should agree on that. Just think about the team of SpaceX and Tesla managing NASA, US Federal, State and local conditions, China National, regional and municipal governments, Germany Federal, Länder and municipal plus wildly divergent political parties and so on around the world.

Who else manages such diverse politics while doing so with apparent ease? That specifically includes so hair-raising moves that popular opinion regarded as doomed.

We need not agree on any specific opinions. We only need to agree that Tesla manages all of us and the world quite adeptly.
You'd even think maybe Elon grew up in South Africa or some other intractably diverse place.
 
My final comment on the political comments being made.
The legitimate point it that Tesla is worth more because they know how to navigate a wide array of political and regulatory conditions.
That all of us have different ideas and political preferences is quite appropriate. We might better understand how adept Tesla is and consequently how much more valuable our TSLA shares are. This also explains yet another area of sustainable competitive advantage. This one is only indirectly related to the mission, but it is essential to accomplishing the Tesla mission.

Regardless of our specific views we should agree on that. Just think about the team of SpaceX and Tesla managing NASA, US Federal, State and local conditions, China National, regional and municipal governments, Germany Federal, Länder and municipal plus wildly divergent political parties and so on around the world.

Who else manages such diverse politics while doing so with apparent ease? That specifically includes so hair-raising moves that popular opinion regarded as doomed.

We need not agree on any specific opinions. We only need to agree that Tesla manages all of us and the world quite adeptly.
You'd even think maybe Elon grew up in South Africa or some other intractably diverse place.
Thanks for your string of comments, much better than the reflexive “NO” to my original question. I don’t have any cognitive dissonance holding your comments in my head while also noting the history of massive Chinese IP theft and the hope maybe expectation it is abating. What other countries do is irrelevant to that history and hope, and its potential impact on Tesla which has so bravely pushed the frontier of direct investment. It is not jingoistic to have some concern about it, and the subject is far from irrelevant to the thread in my view.
 
Someone posted something about Canoo yesterday.

I tried to watch their presentation from 2 days ago and stopped when I heard they will used a contract manufacturer, VDL Nedcar in Europe while they build their factory in Pryor Oklahoma

And everything they do is just mainly old manufacturing systems.

Seems they really push the drive by wire, like it’s the magic stuff.

I wonder where they’ll get the batteries though. And the charging infrastructure.

Wish they succeed, but they are no competition to Tesla, they are competition to ICE platforms also.

Edit: it makes me think they want to be bought out by one of the big ICE companies though. Wonder if that’s going to happen.
 
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Jason Yang's latest video shows Tesla ripping up the staging area at GF3. Potentially additional buildings going up - but if that's the case then the staging area will start to get quite small.

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The full video is quite informative:
- At 3:30 you see all of the bays are occupied.
- from 3:00 to 7:00 is a perimeter fly around and you get to appreciate the enormity of this site
- at 7:25 we see that the logiistics delivery lot has much fewer cars than what we saw on the last video indicating local deliveries on carriers are moving well.
- at 7:35 we see a constant stream of newly produced vehicles coming to the logisitics lot as they leave their charging stations.

Note: run the video at 2x speed
Video by Wu Wa on Youtube