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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
Looking at Tobias Lindh's GigaBerlin video and there is some new equipment at the site. I am guessing theses are hoppers for cathode/annode material in the cell manufacturing plant. Can anyone confirm if that is reasonable.
If so, the quantity is impressive - I didn't see anything like this from the Kato Rd flyovers.
If so, the quantity is impressive - I didn't see anything like this from the Kato Rd flyovers.
No. They're actually cooling towers, used for heat rejection from cooling water systems. These ones are made by Evapco, one of the larger international brands and the same ones used in a similar quantity at Austin. These units are in two halves with the fan section in the foreground placed on the bottom and the evaporative media sections at the rear placed on top. I expect most of these will be installed on the upper level of the new battery building (shown on the plans) but they could also go in the central thermal plant building next to the big tanks (where the video screenshot above is).
If you look at Jeff Roberts most recent Austin video (see below) you will see footage of the two halves of these cooling towers being lowered into position on the upper NW corner of the battery plant area. Kato Rd has slightly different cooling towers along the back plantroom strip on the main building but you only see the top part.
I concur. Too many guesses on things folks have no idea about. just search “evapco” for company symbol right on the units.
Here are some Important material science differences between Tesla and Mach E coolant hoses left out from the Sandy Munro’s YouTube video, as tweeted by Alex Lim:
I'm developing material for those coolant hose and I have some hints to share:
i) the rubber hoses in Mach-E are traditional rubber and can't be recycled easily because it's vulcanized with sulphur
ii) rubber hoses are very heavy (0.2-0.4 lb/ft, depends on diameter)
iii) rubber hoses requires high energy input to manufacture, less flexible for fitting into tight space, but material cost is low
iv) Tesla uses nylon material for tubing, which is a thermoplastic that's recyclable and more energy efficient to produce
v) nylon tubings are more flexible, very lightweight (0.06-0.08 lb/ft, depends on diameter), material cost is however 3-4 times more expensive than rubber
Of all current BEVs, Tesla is the only one implemented 100% nylon tubing, most others uses rubber hose.
Tesla nylon solution is multilayer type, inner layer can resist coolant well.
With volume, nylon cost should go down.
The rubber hose is made of synthetic rubber (like roof material), so it’s price less likely affected, but raw material price went up anyway.
I'm developing material for those coolant hose and I have some hints to share:
i) the rubber hoses in Mach-E are traditional rubber and can't be recycled easily because it's vulcanized with sulphur
ii) rubber hoses are very heavy (0.2-0.4 lb/ft, depends on diameter)
iii) rubber hoses requires high energy input to manufacture, less flexible for fitting into tight space, but material cost is low
iv) Tesla uses nylon material for tubing, which is a thermoplastic that's recyclable and more energy efficient to produce
v) nylon tubings are more flexible, very lightweight (0.06-0.08 lb/ft, depends on diameter), material cost is however 3-4 times more expensive than rubber
Of all current BEVs, Tesla is the only one implemented 100% nylon tubing, most others uses rubber hose.
Tesla nylon solution is multilayer type, inner layer can resist coolant well.
With volume, nylon cost should go down.
The rubber hose is made of synthetic rubber (like roof material), so it’s price less likely affected, but raw material price went up anyway.
Good point. Even if the raw material cost is 3X more for nylon but the since nylon hoses are lighter, and lengths are 3X shorter for Tesla, actual cost to Tesla per car for hoses should be less than for Ford.
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Week end OT
was on my road bicycle yesterday doing a century ride, a woman in a 1999 Honda Civic crossed the highway just looking at cars in each direction but didnt look at bicycles on the road shoulder. She started crossing the road, I thought she was engaging to turn left but when I realized she was going in the gravel road to go to the yard sales it was too late to avoid the collision I braked to minimize impact speed at around 20mph and slammed right into the passenger rear view mirror and broke my 2 left floating ribs. I had the choice between turning right in the gravel getting hit on my left side and ending in the ditch or braking and hitting the car absorbing the speed. I stopped breathing for 1 minute before I could recover from the pain. The respiratory therapist of the regional hospital I will be on call for the next 3 weeks was at the yard sale and came to help me, she was hoping I did not have a pneumothorax. The rest of the 90miles I had to do was painful at every breath but I was still alive and happy for that sunny day.
I kept thinking that I would have never had to sustain that crash if the car crossing was a Tesla with FSD or just basic anti collision avoidance. I should have braked earlier expecting her to cross the road instead of expecting her to have seen me arriving and expecting her to turn left. If I had Full self driving brain hardware I would have braked to avoid taking the risk of a collision. At least my road bike just had a misaligned will from the stem turning on the fork, not broken part, with some parts being back ordered for up to 6-9 months that would have added insult to the injury.
I am hesitating between buying FSD and using it as much as possible for my daily work 30 min commute or paying a $199 monthly subscription when doing long drive to maybe avoid hitting a cyclist myself someday. If it is 10 times safer, that would be a social responsibility.
stay safe everyone, life is fragile.
was on my road bicycle yesterday doing a century ride, a woman in a 1999 Honda Civic crossed the highway just looking at cars in each direction but didnt look at bicycles on the road shoulder. She started crossing the road, I thought she was engaging to turn left but when I realized she was going in the gravel road to go to the yard sales it was too late to avoid the collision I braked to minimize impact speed at around 20mph and slammed right into the passenger rear view mirror and broke my 2 left floating ribs. I had the choice between turning right in the gravel getting hit on my left side and ending in the ditch or braking and hitting the car absorbing the speed. I stopped breathing for 1 minute before I could recover from the pain. The respiratory therapist of the regional hospital I will be on call for the next 3 weeks was at the yard sale and came to help me, she was hoping I did not have a pneumothorax. The rest of the 90miles I had to do was painful at every breath but I was still alive and happy for that sunny day.
I kept thinking that I would have never had to sustain that crash if the car crossing was a Tesla with FSD or just basic anti collision avoidance. I should have braked earlier expecting her to cross the road instead of expecting her to have seen me arriving and expecting her to turn left. If I had Full self driving brain hardware I would have braked to avoid taking the risk of a collision. At least my road bike just had a misaligned will from the stem turning on the fork, not broken part, with some parts being back ordered for up to 6-9 months that would have added insult to the injury.
I am hesitating between buying FSD and using it as much as possible for my daily work 30 min commute or paying a $199 monthly subscription when doing long drive to maybe avoid hitting a cyclist myself someday. If it is 10 times safer, that would be a social responsibility.
stay safe everyone, life is fragile.
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They did that here (DFW) for a while, but all the tickets were thrown out in court, so they stopped doing it.
Mod note: My understanding is that all current Tesla models in the US come with Enhanced Autopilot as standard, therefore the cost to subscribe to FSD is only 99$/month. Much of the discussion here seems to assume 199$/month. Please stop such discussion until/unless this is clarified. I'm in an airport, so can't do it at the moment. --ggr.
Edit: appears I misunderstood. Apologies, but thanks to many people for clarifying. --ggr
Edit: appears I misunderstood. Apologies, but thanks to many people for clarifying. --ggr
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People who complaint about Tesla charging $10000 price for FSD have no idea of the market and what are other OEMs are charging.
As per Wugz on reddit, the upgrade cost to get Cadillac's Super Cruise over the base 2021 CT5 is $24630 and for the base 2021 Escalade its $15650.
The features you get for that are pitiful compared to the current FSD features, nevermind the V9 which current FSD buyers will get for free.
As per Wugz on reddit, the upgrade cost to get Cadillac's Super Cruise over the base 2021 CT5 is $24630 and for the base 2021 Escalade its $15650.
The features you get for that are pitiful compared to the current FSD features, nevermind the V9 which current FSD buyers will get for free.
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Buckminster
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure what clarification you're looking for but I don't believe your assumption here is correct @ggr - but anyone feel free to correct me.
The screen grab below from Dave Lee's video shows a summary of what was in the EAP sold previously in the US. This includes Autosteer, Autobraking, Adaptive Cruise Control, Summon, Autopark and Navigate on Autopilot. Any of these older owners who have the previous EAP can upgrade to FSD via subscription for $99. This will add City Street Driving when available and responding to traffic lights.
Tesla recently reintroduced EAP in Europe and China that includes Autopark, Auto Lane Change and Navigate on Autopilot for around half the cost of FSD. Tesla reintroduces Enhanced Autopilot with some FSD features in Europe and China I assume that once subscription comes to those markets that they would also get an equivalent of a $99 upgrade.
For everyone else who bought a car in the last couple of years, I understand they just come with basic Autopilot, which does not include Summon, Autopark or Navigate on Autopilot (mine certainly doesn't but then I'm in AU). Autopilot is really just traffic aware cruise control and lane keeping. For these owners the FSD subscription cost will be $199.
j6Lpi429@3j
Closed
I would love to know the numbers, and it might be good in the short term for the stock...but actually if I was Elon I would say nothing. Why should he? a short term bump in the stock benefits long term investors & elon not one bit. In fact all this would do is hand over information to the competition, perhaps encouraging them to work harder on better software. Why do this?
Tesla do not need to raise capital right now, and could anyway if they really needed to in the near future. Stock gains have been good enough that employee stock options have great perceived value.
So Tesla could really just give the *bare minimum information required by law* to the markets for the next few years, while ramping up production and profits massively, and leaving everyone guessing as to how they do it.
My company has no external investors, and I don't make the internal revenue/profit split of my products public knowledge.
I'm a long term (10 year+) HODL investor, so I don't care if they keep their card close to their chest.
One of the reasons that I HODL my Tesla shares is because of the Tesla practice to continuously improve quality.
It is in the core of the company and it will pay itself out over time, just like when the Japanese car manufacturers did just that.
Somewhere else on this forum somebody was ranting over the quality of his Model S.
It is of course very annoying if many things do not go well with a car.
Unfortunately, that appears to happen with all brands: a 'Monday morning car'.
On my 911, an IMS bearing went through the engine in small parts. You can read everything about that problem on the internet.
Not a 'Monday morning' problem, but structural in many versions of the 911; not resolved by Porsche. Lawsuits conducted in USA.
With me: car with 65,000 km on the clock. Porsche dealer response: cannot be repaired, new engine sir. Costs approx. 50,000 euros.
Importer: same response.
They never saw me there again.
I don't recognise myself in stories about bad quality Model S'es; on the contrary.
Have now more than 310,000 km on the clock and never had such a good and solid car.
Few problems except for a few things (replacement wishbones, probably because the rubbers protecting the ball joints were damaged during a rough MOT), one door handle replaced and maybe a single small thing I forgot.
And of course the drivetrain problem due to the enormous power of the engine: all solved under warranty.
I've always been treated fairly. Only on a few occasions did I find the reception at Tesla service understaffed and had to wait too long.
All in all these experiences and Tesla's outlook make it easy for me to HODL and not being upset by the SP going up and down.
I am convinced that the outlook is sunny.
And not easy to not become a fanboy.
It is in the core of the company and it will pay itself out over time, just like when the Japanese car manufacturers did just that.
Somewhere else on this forum somebody was ranting over the quality of his Model S.
It is of course very annoying if many things do not go well with a car.
Unfortunately, that appears to happen with all brands: a 'Monday morning car'.
On my 911, an IMS bearing went through the engine in small parts. You can read everything about that problem on the internet.
Not a 'Monday morning' problem, but structural in many versions of the 911; not resolved by Porsche. Lawsuits conducted in USA.
With me: car with 65,000 km on the clock. Porsche dealer response: cannot be repaired, new engine sir. Costs approx. 50,000 euros.
Importer: same response.
They never saw me there again.
I don't recognise myself in stories about bad quality Model S'es; on the contrary.
Have now more than 310,000 km on the clock and never had such a good and solid car.
Few problems except for a few things (replacement wishbones, probably because the rubbers protecting the ball joints were damaged during a rough MOT), one door handle replaced and maybe a single small thing I forgot.
And of course the drivetrain problem due to the enormous power of the engine: all solved under warranty.
I've always been treated fairly. Only on a few occasions did I find the reception at Tesla service understaffed and had to wait too long.
All in all these experiences and Tesla's outlook make it easy for me to HODL and not being upset by the SP going up and down.
I am convinced that the outlook is sunny.
And not easy to not become a fanboy.
True, but... Starlink is already completing at least two contracts with "telco's". Those contracts have been disclosed with 'backhaul' services the openly discussed part. Not openly discussed but also included seems to be arrangements for cellular connections for Tesla vehicles. Elon has discussed '5G support' as part of 'telco' discussions.
@mongo linked this a while back helping me to remember the Elon quotations:
Recent discussions have, I am confident, included Tesla vehicle support as a component of the services, which would be three party contract including backhaul, remote area internet service and cellular data for some Tesla vehicles and stationary storage facilities. No such contract has been disclosed to date, and, depending on the country terms and extent will vary considerably.
In context just consider the telecommunications load generated by Model S infotainment were that to be actively used. Can anyone plausibly suggest that such capabilities can be served well with typical 4G connectivity? There is more than that is there not?
Obviously I cannot offer direct proof of this direction. I only suggest that we all think logically about evolving Tesla vehicle and stationary storage data exchange needs. My sources need not be disclosed if everyone simply thinks logically. Just listening to Elon gives very good clues. Hint: when he mentions '5G' does he also mention what form such a topic might take. Hint #2: He does say in other places that Tesla vehicles will not have Starlink antennas. Hint#3: Elon says it is up to the telco to disclose the agreement.
Your second point is certainly valid.
Your first point is too literal. As stated it is true, but it is misleading. More than one way exists to provide increased bandwidth to Tesla products.
That is why I disagreed.
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Knightshade
Well-Known Member
FWIW regarding trap speeds-
2020 Tesla Model S Performance 1/4 Mile Drag Racing
2020 Tesla Model S Performance runs 10.427 @ 129.260 in the 1/4 mile
www.dragtimes.com
That's a stock Raven P100D... that trapped 129.260 and ran 10.427.
60' time a couple tenths better on the Raven though....so that's probably, roughly what you'd be looking at if there was a proper "launch" mode on the new BASE S.... same as P raven offered.
Dan Detweiler
Active Member
What I don't understand about the FSD subscription debate is that people seem to want to compare the price of FSD at purchase and FSD subscription full time, 24/7, 365 days a year for the life of the car. Who would purchase the subscription like that?
The whole idea behind the subscription model is the ability to only buy the time when you need it. Perhaps when scheduling vacations or known long trips. Perhaps when you know you are going to have passengers you want to interact more closely with (when level 5 is legal and available). Perhaps when you are needing shared transportation within a family to get everyone where they want to be (again, level 5 required). Whatever the reason, the subscription model is designed as a PART TIME service. Of course the full time 24/7 availability full purchase is going to be a better deal for those looking for full time access.
To me the argument appears to be people trying to get something for nothing. I don't get it.
Dan
The whole idea behind the subscription model is the ability to only buy the time when you need it. Perhaps when scheduling vacations or known long trips. Perhaps when you know you are going to have passengers you want to interact more closely with (when level 5 is legal and available). Perhaps when you are needing shared transportation within a family to get everyone where they want to be (again, level 5 required). Whatever the reason, the subscription model is designed as a PART TIME service. Of course the full time 24/7 availability full purchase is going to be a better deal for those looking for full time access.
To me the argument appears to be people trying to get something for nothing. I don't get it.
Dan
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