It's when people realized the Dems only want a photo op with the union donors and not serious about the transition to sustainable energy by snubbing Tesla.
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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
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Tes La Ferrari
Active Member
Call it the F.UAW
Fabulous Un-Union of Auto Workers
LOCAL 420.69
All complaints can be forwarded to the Shop Steward Dojo for prompt resolution, or escalated; quite literally; to Starman - in person.
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2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
As I understand the Texas law it only prevents an auto manufacturer from establishing a "dealership" in the state. It does not prevent a manufacturer from direct sales. They just can't conduct a sales transaction at a dealership lot in Texas.
Tesla doesn't have dealerships anywhere, do they? There is nothing about the statute that will affect Tesla sales in any way.
There are plenty of Tesla cars being sold to Texans. The ones built there will be purchased from a company in California and then delivered to the customer in Texas. Possibly at a "showroom" or "service center," rather than the way ICE cars are picked up at a "dealership" where the actual paperwork for the vehicle sale is transacted.
Edit:
From Wiki
These laws make it illegal to buy a car from Tesla in person, at a Tesla Gallery. (my emphasis)
Thus, all Texas orders are taken via the internet or over the phone. Texas residents can still easily buy a car from Tesla, but the purchase is handled as an out-of-state transaction and must be completed before the vehicle ships to Texas.
(seemingly, the "before the vehicle ships to Texas" is based upon the presumption that the factory is not in Texas, otherwise, this is no indication the vehicle cannot ship from factory to customer within Texas as long as the sale happens in California)
Tesla recently added the ability to include tax, title, license, and registration in the sale price of the car so the purchaser doesn't have to pay that separately once they receive the vehicle.
Is there anything in the above to justify the belief that the vehicle must be shipped out of state, then shipped back?
That concept seems to be only poor journalism at work. Weird that someone might try to generate FUD about Tesla, isn't it?
It would seem prudent for investors to ignore these claims until verifiable evidence indicates otherwise.
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Dan Detweiler
Active Member
woodisgood
Optimustic Pessimist
Ooh! I hope they’ll sell merch.
Nope, Tesla can't even talk about selling you a vehicle in Texas. They have galleries that you can go into to look at their vehicles, but you can't place an order with them, or even ask how much the car costs. You have to sign all of the paperwork online and in advance, essentially buying the vehicle out of state, before it is ever shipped to Texas.
Tesla has lots of dealership licenses. That is the only legal way to sell vehicles in most states.
Rumor is that vehicles built at GigaTexas would have to be shipped out of state before they could be sold to a Texas resident.
That means even Brazil or Argentina counts, good to know!
I spent years and years as a Solar Power Inspector in Beverly Hills, Bel Air, Brentwood, and the Pacific Palisades. This really gave me a front-row seat to what I call “the Liberal Environmental Trickle Down Theory.” What I mean by that, is that the wealthiest folks in world were the first to adopt sustainable transportation and renewable energy. I can only imagine the Bay Area is very much the same. The wealthy led the way. They also contribute very generously to Democratic campaign coffers. I worry that the Biden administration may have just shot themselves in the foot.
To be clear I'm proposing that workers who are Tesla shareholders, could form a lightweight union to serve their interests in multiple ways...
One way is ensuring Tesla gets the credit, which benefits them as shareholders and employees.
The other benefit is a bit of fun, a few jokes, and a bit more lobbying power with management, incase there are issues they need to raise..
NAU obviously needs a Meme, and to obvious meme is the Doge dog.
Possible that USMCA (NAFTA 2.0) includes provisions that would consider cars made in Canada or Mexico as “American“ in regards to subsidies etc - someone more versed in its contents can hopefully opine on the matter.
While I am not an expert on American politics...
There is a lot of benefit in "broadening the base" and "seizing the middle ground". I don't think you comment is limited to just the wealthy, a lot of American business leaders would like a sensible moderate option that they could support.
Union links and union support is fine, but don't make it a centrepiece,,,,
There is little politics can do to reverse the slide in union popularity. The same issues persist worldwide, the union problems are mostly a problem with their internal operations and governance, many workers don't feel a union is good value for money.
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AquaY
Member
Union membership is falling in America. Not growing.
"10.8% of US employees were in unions last year[2020]. That’s just over half of the 20.1% in 1983."
From:
In 2020, the number of unionized workers dropped, while the share of union members increased
Union membership has steadily decreased over the past several decades, though membership is much higher in the public sector than the private.
usafacts.org
I don't care which side someone takes on unions; pro or con, they should have absolutely NOTHING to do with any program to boost EV sales.
IMO they are using this to push greater union membership ( again irrelevant as to that being good or bad) . As usual in modern American politics they use any excuse they can to pay off their contributors.
What worries me most about this political dog and pony show is that leaving tesla out of it they have shown a bias against Tesla for whatever reason.
Who can argue that tesla is the premier electric vehicle corporation in the world and in the USA. In fact, Tesla produces more of it's parts for cars sold in America than any of the big so called " American" car manufacturers.
2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
That is exactly what I said. You cannot purchase a Tesla at a Tesla store in Texas. This is about paperwork. There is nothing that indicates where the physical item being purchased is located.
Yes, the employees of Tesla cannot discuss the sale, prices, or anything related to the sale of a car. All they can do is answer questions about the vehicle and tell you to go to the website. That is Texas law.
TRANSPORTATION | |
TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF MOTOR VEHICLES | |
MOTOR VEHICLE DISTRIBUTION | |
ADVERTISING | |
RULE §215.261 | Manufacturer/Distributor Sales and Wholesale Prices |
| A motor vehicle shall not be advertised for sale in any manner that creates the impression that it is being offered for sale by the manufacturer or distributor of the motor vehicle. An advertisement shall not: (1) contain terms such as "factory sale," "fleet prices," "wholesale prices," "factory approved," "factory sponsored," "manufacturer sale," or "distributor sale"; (2) use a manufacturer's/distributor's name or abbreviation in any manner calculated or likely to create an impression that the motor vehicle is being offered for sale by the manufacturer or distributor; or (3) use any other similar terms which indicate sales other than retail sales from the dealer. |
The "Dealership license" in states that don't have laws preventing manufacturers owning dealerships are what allow a customer to make their purchase at that physical location. In Texas, a manufacturer is prevented from having their own dealership. So, the customer must conduct the purchase elsewhere. Again, this is exactly what was in the original post.
Great, a "rumor" about shipping out of state and back in that has no basis in any particular statute. I don't think that is all that convincing, except maybe for FUDsters.
If what you believe is accurate, then, how are people in Texas buying Tesla cars now?
What specific statute is it that will result in Tesla needing to ship vehicles manufactured in Texas out of state, then ship them back in to a customer?
If you disagree, show me the legal reference that supports your belief.
insaneoctane
Well-Known Member
union worker doesn’t equal US worker. If the intent is US worker, that should be the stipulation. I would at least see the benefit….
Even though we appear to disagree, we are on the same page...Union membership is falling in America. Not growing.
"10.8% of US employees were in unions last year[2020]. That’s just over half of the 20.1% in 1983."
From:
In 2020, the number of unionized workers dropped, while the share of union members increased
Union membership has steadily decreased over the past several decades, though membership is much higher in the public sector than the private.
I don't care which side someone takes on unions; pro or con, they should have absolutely NOTHING to do with any program to boost EV sales.
IMO they are using this to push greater union membership ( again irrelevant as to that being good or bad) . As usual in modern American politics they use any excuse they can to pay off their contributors.
What worries me most about this political dog and pony show is that leaving tesla out of it they have shown a bias against Tesla for whatever reason.
Who can argue that tesla is the premier electric vehicle corporation in the world and in the USA. In fact, Tesla produces more of it's parts for cars sold in America than any of the big so called " American" car manufacturers.
High profile UAW involvement in the EV credit, and the exclusion of Tesla, was clumsy and bad politics.
The only advantage for the UAW is it may be popular with the existing membership, but in terms of recruiting new members, it has the opposite effect,,,
That is the point I was making.... unions need to think local and act local, Biden and the Dems need to be smarter...
Turning back to TSLA SP, the biggest drag I saw the last couple days was the fact that we went above the Upper BB. People draw all sorts of lines, and try to predict SP movement, and their predictions have low success rates. But the Bollinger Bands seem to be reliable in that when we bust through, there is usually a leveling off or drop before we can keep climbing. Hopefully we continue the climb next week as the Upper BB continue to turn upward. The upper BB will usually give me confidence to sell Covered Calls at a strike price that is not obtainable without a big climb over the upper BB, which would be a very rare event. Other Tea-Leaf reading guys/gals have a different opinion?
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Today's political theater was nothing more than a UAW play. Tesla is getting more airtime by being excluded as it is so blatantly obvious why and will still massively benefit from whatever actually gets signed into law.
larmor
Active Member
This will also bring into play cars made in Mexico and Canada with final assembly in the US, vs Tesla made and assembled in US....
Based on what has been posted about the $10,000 EV credit, it appears that Tesla buyers would be eligible for $7,500 and buyers of union made EV's could receive the full $10,000. I might have missed it, but I don't think that there's been an outline of the amount of money available and how the eligibility is determined in regards to the government's proposed charging network expansion.
Based on the totality of the circumstances leading up to the "Big 3 + UAW EV meeting" and the speech following their "agreement" I would not be surprised if the language for both the EV credits and the charging network build out is written in such a way that Tesla is excluded. For example; wording it so the funds are directed towards start-ups** to really jump start the adoption of EVs.
**"Start-up" = Any company that hasn't produced as many vehicles or built as many chargers as Tesla.
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