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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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With Tesla bulls like Gene Munster, who needs bears totally ignorant about the data requirements of AI yet eager to broadcast their ignorant opinions on national TV?


Excerpt:

"AI, which is really the substance of autonomy -- on that front, [Apple is] doing really well," he contended.​

The Bloomberg article that Gene saw says Apple has "a fleet of 69 Lexus SUVs experimenting with its technology..." Tesla's fleet collecting driving data for their AI is over a million cars and growing exponentially.
 
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Totally agree.

As a long time Apple investor, I put the “value” of the Apple car at $0. It’s a complete mystery.
I’m a ”long time“ apple investor (and I can say this with still some shares I paid 13 cents for!!) and I would put the value of an apple car in the future at something MORE than $0. Is it worth 100B today or 500B in three years, time will tell. I seriously doubt they are going to build ANY manufacturing capability so the mkt opportunity is to find whoever their partner will be. BYD, Magna, Kia, Honda, it’s going to be some partner.
 
Foxcon has already stated that they're going into the business of contract-building electric cars, and have even shown their design for a base vehicle chassis. So if Apple were to do this, I suspect it would be via Foxcon.

But given that neither one of them has ever manufactured or supported a car, I would expect a long ramp-up rather than the instant success that the media keeps wanting to hand them.
Foxconn is already dabling in BEVs. They are planning their own "Foxtron" brand (have prototype sedan, SUV and city bus) as well as planning to build for Fisker.

We have always said Tesla is an iPhone on wheels, so let Foxconn do their thing. More BEVs the better and Foxconn not encumbered by ICE infrastructure should do well.

I'm still waiting for the Tesla phone, I'd order one now if I could.
 
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Best of both worlds for me, AAPL up, TSLA up.

I suspect the little downturn earlier today was due to something other than the Apple news.

Even if you assume Apple’s car effort turns out to be fantastic, it is still not going to impact Tesla significantly in the short or even long term. Far more likely it will just accelerate the rest of the industries meeting with oblivion. Apple doesn’t have the (auto/ battery) manufacturing in place to put a dent in Tesla’s volume.

If Apple can't put a dent in Tesla's sales then they wouldn't have enough volume to significantly accelerate the demise of legacy makers.

More interesting is the reason why Apple can't compete head to head with Tesla. Because there is no way they could offer competitive pricing, contract manufacturer or not.

Elon was not joking when he said their not-so-secret weapon is excellence in manufacturing. Elon is making sure they can make and sell cars for less money than everyone else. To a non-visionary CEO this means cutting salaries to the bone and using cheaper components. To Elon it means streamlining the design, manufacturing and selling/delivery processes to take less time, less labor, less floor space, less robots, less shipping, less suppliers, less batteries, no advertising and fewer materials to build and sell them. It took Tesla nearly two decades achieve the huge lead they currently have and no other manufacturer is going to be able to catch them because Tesla is continually widening the gap.

Apple can't just magically design a car that is more efficient to build or a better value and, even if they could, they couldn't design the manufacturing process to 'one up' Tesla because it's necessary to use reiterative improvements to get there. It's not something that can be done in 3-5 years. Legacy auto can't do it because they have too much bureaucracy and cutting the fat is harder than herding cats - everyone resists it because they are part of the fat. Not to mention they forgot what real innovation entails and how to do it quickly. Looking at legacy auto, a company like GM cannot do it without a major, multi-year, ground up corporate restructuring. And they are making no move in that direction for the reason above. And, even if they did suddenly hit the "reset button" and try to start over, they have huge debt and lack the necessary talent. I don't like to say something is impossible, but it's impossible.

The only chance legacy auto has is to hope that somehow Tesla would suddenly lose it's will to succeed. I don't see that happening even if the worst should happen.

Apple would theoretically have had a chance if they started at the same time as Tesla. But they didn't. Now they have zero chance at a real car they can sell in a sustainable manner (with a profit). Maybe they want to create a small, light, mostly plastic urban transport vehicle with a top speed of 30-35 mph that is not even what we think of as a real car. But that's not what these fake "reliable sources" have been announcing and Tesla could quickly crush them in that space if it turns out there is a market for such a thing and they wanted to compete there. Reading between the lines of many 'news' stories and rumors, it looks to me like Apple has given up on their own car and might be hoping to create a smart Apple automotive ecosystem including autonomy that they can sell to other makers. This would be a tall order but one with at least the potential for success. The biggest problem is it relies on having significant non-Tesla customers left standing. Because Tesla is not going to buy an Apple automotive ecosystem. It goes against their focus on offering the consumer the most value for the money. Tesla already has an excellent ecosystem that is continually improving and they can replicate it in unlimited volumes without incremental costs like royalties per car.
 
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Bernie going after Elon again. He wants to submit a legislative amendment to block SpaceX. The guy is a complete moron. SpaceX is doing space travel cheaper than ever. Who does he want the taxpayer money to go to for the job? Maybe he can get POTUS to grab a few Union guys from Detroit to get us to the moon?

 
Bernie going after Elon again. He wants to submit a legislative amendment to block SpaceX. The guy is a complete moron. SpaceX is doing space travel cheaper than ever. Who does he want the taxpayer money to go to for the job? Maybe he can get POTUS to grab a few Union guys from Detroit to get us to the moon?


Whoa. I thought someone was being sarcastic about what Bernie was saying, and writing what he was saying between the lines.

But he's effectively saying that it would have been better for the US to use Russian rockets than to have an American company leading the world to space.

Edit 3: Ok, not quite that far, but still stunned. Although I agree with not giving Bezos a handout bailout.
 
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I watched that earlier but his bitcoin adjustment under OPEX is incorrect, right? The increase in Bitcoin's value only gets realized if they sell as far as I know. The 51 million impairment from last quarter though gets reversed. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
I am no expert in this topic so I'm not 100% sure about this but here is my understanding:

If bitcoin never goes lower than a previous quarter value then there will be no impairment.
If bitcoin goes up AND Tesla doesn't sell, nothing happens on the earnings
If Tesla sells bitcoin they can realize the gains (whether the gains are from lowest impairment or purchase price I do not know)
 
If bitcoin never goes lower than a previous quarter value then there will be no impairment.
If bitcoin goes up AND Tesla doesn't sell, nothing happens on the earnings
If Tesla sells bitcoin they can realize the gains (whether the gains are from lowest impairment or purchase price I do not know)
The lowest impairment is the new basis. That amount would be used to calculate the gain if sold.
 
Could you make it larger, I only have 20/10 vision.. ;-).. clearly webbush has a LARGE TSLA position, but frankly, has there EVER been a time in the past four years when they WEREN’’T bullish?

They had a Hold rating on TSLA, until about 7 months ago when they upgraded it to Buy.

TipRanks: Wedbush - Daniel Ives

Rated #8 out of 7,730 analysts
Rated #11 out of 15,943 experts
Success Rate 82%
Average Return +41.0%
 
Whoa. I thought someone was being sarcastic about what Bernie was saying, and writing what he was saying between the lines.

But he's effectively saying that it would have been better for the US to use Russian rockets than to have an American company leading the world to space.

Edit: Ok, not quite that far, but still stunned. Although I agree with not giving Bezos a handout.
It is in no way a handout. It is money given to a company for goods and services. This rhetoric is absurd
 
They had a Hold rating on TSLA, until about 7 months ago when they upgraded it to Buy.

TipRanks: Wedbush - Daniel Ives

Rated #8 out of 7,730 analysts
Rated #11 out of 15,943 experts
Success Rate 82%
Average Return +41.0%
Not really in the same league as Gordon though. Not even close.
 
Honestly all the unearned praise heaped on Not-A-Tesla, while disappointing, has an interesting side effect:

It relaxes Tesla's competitors. Ultimately this puts Tesla even further ahead. This has little negative impact to EV adoption in general (since only Tesla knows how to make EVs in large volumes and GM has proven that they suck at it) but should have a positive impact on TSLA (and therefore my wallet) since Tesla increases their lead among competitors.
it also keeps Tesla as the "underdog" which is a great employee motivator
 
Whoa. I thought someone was being sarcastic about what Bernie was saying, and writing what he was saying between the lines.

But he's effectively saying that it would have been better for the US to use Russian rockets than to have an American company leading the world to space.

Edit 3: Ok, not quite that far, but still stunned. Although I agree with not giving Bezos a handout bailout.
The most interesting part when you have read about Musk and listened to one of the greatest engineer of the present time is that the reason Elon started SpaceX is because there was no mention on the NASA website of any future project of form of exploitation {<===I believe our native RomanceLanguage speaker might have wanted to use the peculiar English word "exploration". At least...I hope so!} whatsoever.
 
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