Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[betstarship]

I'm going to post this thinking this is on-topic due to the macro environment. The entire internet is down in Tonga (106k population), so there's no way to know the damage right now.

Climate Change Likely To Increase Volcanic Eruptions, Scientists Say

A recent study in the journal Geology says glacial ice has an impact on the behavior of magma below the Earth's surface. It finds a correlation between a warmer climate and more volcanic activity.

www.npr.org

 

[Krugerrand]

This is possibly a bad thing that might get worse. I've experieced it once lately in -16C drive. Now, some people have had 5K worth of parts replaced to fix this. Tesla wants to do the software update fix which is obviously cheaper. Now, for what Elon praises as great expanation - NO, people will not kneel in front of the shutter to check its operations/blockages in sub zero weather. Tons of Teslas have been sold in cold climate areas and this needs to be sorted out ASAP and properly.

Oh, stop. People will do what’s necessary or they’ll go buy an ICE car that they need to plug the block heater in every time it gets particularly cold.

Relax. Stop fearmongering. Stop turning yourself inside out so you can worry and fret. Tesla will fix whatever needs to be fixed. Tesla cars have worked in the Arctic Circle for years.

And realize that sometimes extreme weather is not agreeable to cars of any fuel type. Nobody gets up in arms when ICE cars overheat, or won’t work for any number of reasons.

 

[JRP3]

Exactly! Too many Chicken Little's acting like the sky is falling and investors had better sit upright and take notice.

This kind of over-reaction to the slightest technical challenge that faces Tesla has been going on since I bought my first share in 2018 and my first significant shares in 2019. I've been closely following Tesla and TSLA since inception and this same "Chicken Little" alarmist, worry-wort attitude to the slightest issue, crash, fire, failure or hiccup doesn't seem like it will go away anytime soon.

Any investor with eyes can see this is not the kind of technical issue that is capable of significantly changing the trajectory of a company like Tesla. As investors, the best thing we can do is not treat it differently than only similar challenge faced by any other automaker. Thousands of such issues are addressed every year by automakers cumulatively and Tesla probably has fewer than their share of such issues. Most never make front page news unless it happens to be a Tesla.

This issue coupled with bad service is adding to the reputation of poor quality and poor service that is already too pervasive. It's also turning some affected Tesla owners against the brand. Bad service with long wait times is unfortunately not an isolated problem with Tesla.

 

[EVortex]

View attachment 756016View attachment 756017

Which one of you has the R1T in Tampa? It’s smaller than I thought but more beautiful in person. Long way from Michigan! Charging on a J1772 ChargePoint unit.

I do not think I would purchase this truck based on what I saw. It looks about as big as a suv and certainly doesn’t feel like a normal American truck. More like the Ford Ranger sold overseas.

My son and I saw one in the same color heading toward Tahoe on I-80. My son laughingly mentioned the color was identical to a caution sign. Anxiously waiting for my Cybertruck.

 

[Jeeps17]

Oh, stop. People will do what’s necessary or they’ll go buy an ICE car that they need to plug the block heater in every time it gets particularly cold.

Relax. Stop fearmongering. Stop turning yourself inside out so you can worry and fret. Tesla will fix whatever needs to be fixed. Tesla cars have worked in the Arctic Circle for years.

And realize that sometimes extreme weather is not agreeable to cars of any fuel type. Nobody gets up in arms when ICE cars overheat, or won’t work for any number of reasons.

The older Teslas you refer to have resistive heaters (as does mine), and indeed work well in cold climes (it is -30C now in Montreal).

While I do not doubt Tesla will eventually fix whatever the issue is with their new heat pump, the reputational damage among existing or potential owners may spread and perdure in markets with true winter weather.

It is true that no vehicle is perfect (ICE or EV), but this has been an Achille's heel for Tesla since the early days (my 2013 P85 S still has mediocre wipers in freezing rain due to insufficient heating when they rest at the bottom of the windshield, but otherwise performs well overall after service bulletins were performed for various v1.0 shortcomings).

I hope for a rapid and effective resolution for all involved.

 

[Singuy]

The older Teslas you refer to have resistive heaters (as does mine), and indeed work well in cold climes (it is -30C now in Montreal).

While I do not doubt Tesla will eventually fix whatever the issue is with their new heat pump, the reputational damage among existing or potential owners may spread and perdure in markets with true winter weather.

It is true that no vehicle is perfect (ICE or EV), but this has been an Achille's heel for Tesla since the early days (my 2013 P85 S still has mediocre wipers in freezing rain due to insufficient heating when they rest at the bottom of the windshield, but otherwise performs well overall after service bulletins were performed for various v1.0 shortcomings).

I hope for a rapid and effective resolution for all involved.

Cold weather is the achille's heel for all things, from pools, to roofs, to even entire city of Austin. Ice cars are known to not start in the cold, resulting in numerous tutorials and preventative measures.

We have been here before, from frozen door handles to heat pump issues in the cold. Tesla however fix these issues in mass within weeks.

So lets stop with this crazy amount of fear mongering. A Tesla have saved more lives in the cold than the death that carbon monoxide have caused by ICE in the same environment.

Texas enabled the worst carbon monoxide poisoning catastrophe in recent U.S. history

They used their car to stay warm when a winter storm brought down the Texas power grid. In a state that doesn't require carbon monoxide alarms in homes, they had no warning they were poisoning themselves.

www.texastribune.org

 

[StealthP3D]

Gave it a like because of the long view projected. But make no mistake. This is a dangerous situation when travelling at minus 30 in Canada.

Make no mistake, this is not something smart investors focus on.

 

[insaneoctane]

... this has been an Achille's heel for Tesla since the early days (my 2013 P85 S still has mediocre wipers in freezing rain due to insufficient heating when they rest at the bottom of the windshield, but otherwise performs well overall after service bulletins were performed for various v1.0 shortcomings).

I hope for a rapid and effective resolution for all involved.

It makes sense that Tesla might struggle more here than legacy auto. Legacy auto has been making windshield wipers, block heaters, and other basic components work in cold climates for many, many decades. Not lots of innovation on any of these components either. Tesla, on the other hand, is innovating at a mind numbing pace. Hell, my 2018 TM3 doesn't even have a heat pump! Tesla's pace of innovation will inevitably occasionally create more of these unforeseen issues. They are also fixing issues that legacy auto never knew they had. I also have great confidence in their ability to engineer an acceptable solution.

 

[StealthP3D]

This issue coupled with bad service is adding to the reputation of poor quality and poor service that is already too pervasive. It's also turning some affected Tesla owners against the brand. Bad service with long wait times is unfortunately not an isolated problem with Tesla.

Very few people have sworn off Tesla as a brand. We know this because the vast majority of existing motorists have never even had a ride in a Tesla, let alone driven or owned one.

People who actually have become disillusioned with the brand are a very small percentage of owners. We know this because Tesla regularly gets #1 in terms of customer satisfaction. That means other brands have a higher percentage of dissatisfied customers compared to Tesla and many more in actual numbers.

From a future sales standpoint this creates no concerns, quite the opposite actually, because all those customers dissatisfied with other brands outnumber those who have sworn off Tesla about 120 (or more) to 1. From a statistical standpoint, Tesla is the best at satisfying their customers, at least that's what the annual automotive survey shows. So I think your concerns are blown out of proportion. In fact, I would call it made up fear-mongering.

 

[JRP3]

I beg of you
@elonmusk
my
@Tesla
Model Y lost heat again, this time at -25c, less than 48hrs after getting it back from service. Two Supermanifolds, at least 3 sensors sets, expansion valves, software updates, a/c lines, what’s next? This is a third tow to the SC for no heat............I can’t keep doing this, at least this time it happened while in the city and wasn’t an immediate life threatening situation. How can I have faith in your product ever again? This is my family’s primary vehicle, we saved for years to afford it

https://twitter.com/x/status/1480311080056508422

 

[Jeeps17]

Cold weather is the achille's heel for all things, from pools, to roofs, to even entire city of Austin. Ice cars are known to not start in the cold, resulting in numerous tutorials and preventative measures.

We have been here before, from frozen door handles to heat pump issues in the cold. Tesla however fix these issues in mass within weeks.

So lets stop with this crazy amount of fear mongering. A Tesla have saved more lives in the cold than the death that carbon monoxide have caused by ICE in the same environment.

Texas enabled the worst carbon monoxide poisoning catastrophe in recent U.S. history

They used their car to stay warm when a winter storm brought down the Texas power grid. In a state that doesn't require carbon monoxide alarms in homes, they had no warning they were poisoning themselves.

www.texastribune.org

I'd be curious to see what in my post you considered fearmongering.

I simply stated that in my (8+ year) ownership experience of Tesla vehicles cold weather issues occurred with novel features designed in warmer climes (windshield ventilation, or as you stated, the door handles).

I also noted that Tesla have resolved them over time, and that I hope for a prompt and effective fix to this issue.

The mainstream media's characterization of these issues causing reputational damage can certainly qualify as fearmongering, but that is not something I espouse.

 

[JRP3]

1.7 million sub YouTube channel talking about the issue

 

[SO16]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1480311080056508422

Isnt this a bit old now?

I know I’d make a point to check the flap in the meantime.

 

[SO16]

1.7 million sub YouTube channel talking about the issue

I wonder if there will be an update video when it’s fixed.

This guy’s video post history isn’t exactly pro EV.

 

[st_lopes]

This issue coupled with bad service is adding to the reputation of poor quality and poor service that is already too pervasive. It's also turning some affected Tesla owners against the brand. Bad service with long wait times is unfortunately not an isolated problem with Tesla.

This is getting silly.

I had a notification pop when it was -25 C before Christmas that my climate system needed service. This was just after one of our rides had no heat (but the next two did). Made a service appointment, which showed only available in the new year. Got a phone call within an hour to bring the car in whenever I wanted and they would give me a loaner.

Kept the loaner (MX P90D) for a week while they ordered parts and made the necessary repairs to the temperature sensors, and ultimately replaced the entire heat pump. Service tech mentioned that there is a service bulletin relating to the sensors that are causing this issue, but it wasn’t severe (widespread) enough to merit a recall, especially if a software fix can remedy the situation.

Completely painless experience. Barely an inconvenience. Great service experience. All covered under warranty.

 

[printf42]

Why suddenly all the heat pump talking?
Short raid on short trading week?
Wrong place to spread FUD.
People here are bad at selling at top, but very good at buying all the way down.

 

[adiggs]

When has news about Tesla’s business or legal practices not been of interest to the wider Tesla community? I took it as another example of DFWE (last 2 words “with Elon”). Cummings recusal was also news.

I agree that news of that sort is interesting and important, at least to me.

My point is that there wasn't anything in the post besides a link about what you found useful. Why post that link?

I did do some hunting to find a non-paywalled version of the article - I just assume its a copy. Unfortunately reading the article the best I could get out of it is that it was another example of FUD being tossed out. I needed to read the article to find out the law firm in question was employed by Tesla / SpaceX, not some random law firm. I still don't know whether the lawyer in question worked on the Tesla / SpaceX account or was just a random person, formerly working at the SEC, that now also worked for the law firm. Or why Elon was calling him out specifically.

The article also didn't make it clear about the expert at NHTSA had evidence of an axe to grind with Elon, or why Elon would call that person out. That's mostly why I was thinking that the reason to post the link is that its yet another example of Tesla FUD, with a catchy headline and innuendo but light on actual facts. Was that the point - its another FUD article that takes a subset of facts and twists them?


But the main thing is that I didn't see any value add from you. What did you find helpful and intriguing about that article? What information did it provide to you that you felt might be helpful to the community? I love getting new information like that - its an important reason why this community has been so helpful to me. There is still a blizzard of links that people find, and even a one-liner with the link about why the link and information at the other end was interesting / helpful to the poster, is important to help people (or at least me) decide whether to follow the link and learn more or not.

 

[Silent Ludicrosy]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1482503814963863554

 

[juanmedina]

Even Twitter thinks is funny:

 

[JRP3]

Completely painless experience. Barely an inconvenience. Great service experience. All covered under warranty.

Awesome. Now talk to the guy who had three service visits with no resolution, as well as multiple other issues with the same vehicle.