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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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Tsla may or may not have to go up by a whole lot. Right now if we look at the market, you can almost divide total percentage down from ATH by the percent they are going up today and get a number(you'll find Tesla to be not terrible).

Any stock that got severely destroyed are going up higher than Tsla, but Tsla was not as severely destroyed as those other guys. Tsla is actually considered as a "high quality stock", higher quality than say Nvidia among the big tech. High quality stocks didn't get decimated as much and are not recovering as hard today which is expected coming out of a recovery.
I understand what you're saying.

But most of the outperformance in TSLA YTD was up until May 4th. Since then it has very underperformed and has not been treated like a high quality stock.

It's underperforming it's beta. Since you compared to Nvidia, since May 4th, TSLA is down 19%, Nvidia is only down 12%. Apple down 11%. Microsoft down 9%. This after probably the biggest blowout earnings TSLA has ever had.

The reality is the stock has been weak for 2 weeks now and we all the know the reasons, or at least the reason Wall St will use to say why it's down. I expect the stock be continually capped on macro up days and punished on macro down days until end June. Wall St got insanely lucky with the Shanghai timing right before a stock split. You can bet they're going to apply maximum selling pressure until the very last moment.
 
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LOL CNN.

Journalism!
 
Wanna have a good release of endorphins after those bad weeks in the stock market?

Watch this CNBC advertorial launched today on GM Ultium battery.
Presenting old tech like a major breakthrough. Have that paid shill from Guidehouse Insights (Used to call Navigant Research, tslaq lover ) comment on how GM has advantages over Tesla. Luckely some clips from Munro, but most of the time, the video is like: GM will be the EV-leader soon :D

 
Such moves should be disseminated to involved/interested parties through appropriate channels so everyone is working with the same information and at the same time, that is ethical and fair and typically this would happen through regulatory filings.

'disseminate through regulatory filings' that are available to a select people (inner circle of the deal) immediately through in person or phone/video discussions, but only available to general public in an online govt portal, a week or two later --> is ethical and fair.

Tweeting out stuff like this is not disseminating the information appropriately, many people don't use social media or don't use Twitter specifically and this information will arrive to them delayed and via some other channel with lacking clarity around necessary details. I don't know what this would result in if anything, but it's just not a good way of doing business.

'disseminating through an online portal' that everyone interested can get to know immediately is unfair.
 
That's true, but it's not even the main trouble with margin loans. The issuers have the right to suddenly change the terms. It kills me when people say "TSLA would have to drop 50% for me to get a margin call." That is false in all cases! The brokerage making the loan can instantly make whatever stock you are borrowing against almost worthless to use as collateral based upon nothing more than the perception your collateral has dropped in value or increased in risk. The actual price doesn't even need to change for them to do that and it's completely beyond your control and can happen without warning. Many people are unaware of this.

Hence my question to people asking if they should use margin loans: Do you aspire to becoming a puppet?
E*Trade has been oscillating between 25%, 40% and 60% maintenance margin requirement for me. My account with them is 100% TSLA shares and calls.

I have been getting margin called about 3x per week lately because of E*Trade flip-flopping on their lending risk tolerance and because of TSLA dropping.

I have a simple algorithm for dealing with this:

Wake up in morning around market open;
Check Tesla news and TMC;
If (new information compels me to adjust my net income per share forecast model) {
Model.adjust();
}
While ($TSLA << 50 * EPS forecast for ‘23)
{
If (I have more credit than yesterday) {
Buy TSLA shares; //to max out margin again
}
Else If (I need to cover a margin maintenance deficit) {
Sell TSLA;
If (this was caused in part by a TSLA drop and not just a maintenance percentage requirement) {
Sell even more TSLA;
Use proceeds to leverage up with irrationally discounted LEAPS;
}
}
}

As long as I can confidently expect that $TSLA in 2024 will be trading for much more than $TSLA now, this strategy will have high returns by 2024. The real risk is being mistaken in that assumption. Technically another risk is that TSLA could drop like 90% in an hour without me reacting fast enough and E*Trade sells automatically near the bottom while I’m underwater on the loan and now I’m suddenly bankrupt. However, that’s almost entirely mitigated by my massive sell order set to be triggered at $310. Basically the order would have to fail to execute for me to be bankrupt. Trading regulations also tend to reduce the risk of such rapid drops, or so is my understanding. Meanwhile I could always come out of retirement and get another engineering job if my wealth is near zero. Overall I’m comfortable with the risk because I’ve done so much research and analysis on this one topic.
 
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E*Trade has been oscillating between 25%, 40% and 60% maintenance margin requirement for me. My account with them is 100% TSLA shares and calls.

I have been getting margin called about 3x per week lately because of E*Trade flip-flopping on their lending risk tolerance and because of TSLA dropping.

I have a simple algorithm for dealing with this:

Wake up in morning around market open; Check Tesla news and TMC to see if new information compels me to adjust my net income per share forecast model; While ($TSLA << 50 * EPS forecast for ‘23) { [INDENT]If (I have more credit than yesterday) {[/INDENT] [INDENT=2]Buy TSLA shares to max out margin again;[/INDENT] [INDENT]}[/INDENT] [INDENT][/INDENT] [INDENT]Else If (I need to cover a margin maintenance deficit) {[/INDENT] [INDENT=2]Sell TSLA;[/INDENT] [INDENT=2]If (this was caused in part by a TSLA drop and not just a maintenance percentage requirement) {[/INDENT] [INDENT=3]Sell even more TSLA to leverage up with irrationally discounted LEAPS;[/INDENT] [INDENT=2]}[/INDENT] [INDENT]}[/INDENT]

As long as I can confidently expect that $TSLA in 2024 will be trading for much more than $TSLA now, this strategy will have high returns by 2024.
My (new-ish) algo is simpler since my IRA doesn't allow margin.

while (SP < sillyMinimum) { sell(*); buyLEAPS(TSLA, 2024-06-21) }

Right now its still a bit vague what sillyMinimum is but I'm pretty sure we're there right now.
 
Lots of coverage and shuffling going on and it looks to be setting the stage for a very good week next week.
A lot of the risky growth stocks are continuing their rebound again today, with strong above average volume which is a good sign.

Still bizarre to me to see some of these companies and the P/E's they're still able to command.......all while TSLA's P/E is laughable for the earnings growth they're going to do at minimum this year.

Most detached I've ever seen TSLA's valuation be from what is about to happen in near term future. Yes even more detached than what we saw in 2018-2019.
 
A lot of the risky growth stocks are continuing their rebound again today, with strong above average volume which is a good sign.

Still bizarre to me to see some of these companies and the P/E's they're still able to command.......all while TSLA's P/E is laughable for the earnings growth they're going to do at minimum this year.

Most detached I've ever seen TSLA's valuation be from what is about to happen in near term future. Yes even more detached than what we saw in 2018-2019.
Tesla will really get moving soon and it will be a violent move. The shorts were very hungry this week and were trying to get Elon margin called, which he promptly stopped. Combine that with Tesla being the riskiest mega cap, it will take some time to get some momentum. Once it goes, it will go fast. Mid March 2.0 is about to happen.
 
A lot of the risky growth stocks are continuing their rebound again today, with strong above average volume which is a good sign.

Still bizarre to me to see some of these companies and the P/E's they're still able to command.......all while TSLA's P/E is laughable for the earnings growth they're going to do at minimum this year.

Most detached I've ever seen TSLA's valuation be from what is about to happen in near term future. Yes even more detached than what we saw in 2018-2019.
It's like a google shareholder complaining that Nikola went up 10+% today and believes they are a fraud while google went up only 2.5%.

This is how it works...not rallying as hard today is almost a badge of honor.
 
Tesla will really get moving soon and it will be a violent move. The shorts were very hungry this week and were trying to get Elon margin called, which he promptly stopped. Combine that with Tesla being the riskiest mega cap, it will take some time to get some momentum. Once it goes, it will go fast. Mid March 2.0 is about to happen.
Elon cannot get margin called because the deal has not even closed yet. Yes, might make it more challenging in the future if SP remains low. But he cannot be margin called yet.
 
The margin differences is astounding. The spoil cash reserve on Lucid and Rivian vs to 2012 Tesla is such an eye opener on the continuous tremendous pressure on Tesla on survival. No wonder Tesla is unbelievably efficient
I think Rivian has a lot of potential... I am very worried about their op ex. It is improving as the stock stuff wipes out and you can see a path to roughly halving it... but still it is way too high. They have a lot of cash right now to make it through though.
 
Wanna have a good release of endorphins after those bad weeks in the stock market?

Watch this CNBC advertorial launched today on GM Ultium battery.
Presenting old tech like a major breakthrough. Have that paid shill from Guidehouse Insights (Used to call Navigant Research, tslaq lover ) comment on how GM has advantages over Tesla. Luckely some clips from Munro, but most of the time, the video is like: GM will be the EV-leader soon :D

I love to hear the engineer describe his battery product as a brick...several times /s

Tell me you're not a battery engineer without telling me you're not a battery engineer.

Ugh and a few other statements that were cringe worthy like how Ultium batteries can go 450 Miles on a single charge and are 40% lighter than GMs previous packs.

First Ultium vehicle with 212kWh usable in the Hummer, 320 EPA, which translates to 662 Wh/mile.

A whole new standard of low efficiency.