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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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Gene's last parting shot, given the 10 seconds he was offered after Gordo crammed in his last load of crap: "Of the 10 auto companies, 9 of them will not exist in the next decade." (As best as I can recall after a LOL at the best rebuttal to Gordo that I ever heard.)

Edit: This comment did not make it to any clip I've seen posted...
 
Wow, how many false article headlines can there be in one morning stating that BYD is crushing Tesla in ELECTRIFIED, when in reality Tesla sells more EVs and BYD sells a bunch of hybrids? Not to mention that it wouldn't even matter if it was true since Tesla has a long wait list and can sell as many as it makes for years anyway.... :rolleyes:
FTFY ;)

Many companies now talk about their "electrified" portfolio because they cannot bring EVs out of the door.. (looking at YOU, Toyota :D )
 
I don't understand Gene's comment about Tesla being impacted by macro? I guess he just meant the stock price.

He stated this while discussing deliveries which seemed to infer it was impacting sales. Very confusing when just watching a short clip.

The only reason deliveries were down is because Shanghai was shut down for a ~month. Anyone stating otherwise is either being purposely dishonest or is ignorant of this fact.
 
I don't understand Gene's comment about Tesla being impacted by macro? I guess he just meant the stock price.

He stated this while discussing deliveries which seemed to infer it was impacting sales. Very confusing when just watching a short clip.
Indirectly, supply disruptions were affected by the macro, Shanghai shutdown, macro, HUGE DEMAND, macro again (EV trend rising).
Hence Tesla was also affected by the macro, some good, some not so much. Meh.
 
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This is a clear sign it's time to buy, last chance folks... but maybe not. It's TSLA ;)

Max Pain indicates interest around 700 this week. But lots of 800 calls there still, so we'll see.
"The truth lies somewhere between the two extremes." (My Dad used to always say that, lol.)

View attachment 824920
Macro weakness will keep 800 out of sight this week. This week macro-wise is really about setting the line in the sand for next Wednesday's CPI numbers. It seems reasonable we setup things 1-3% lower than today for a potential move to the next leg down if the numbers are bad.

Tesla wise... 650 is the line in the sand today/this week. Breaking lower there sets up a good chance to re-test lows. With the weaker delivery numbers, seems like a prime opportunity for shorts to get a chance at 620 again.
 
Lol are we really down another 4.2% on totally expected news that is not news and not at all related to Tesla AND already in the past?

Wall Street has got to be the largest assembled group of collective morons on the planet. Instead of investing based on the next decade, next year, or next quarter, they're investing based on the LAST quarter.

Complete and utter stupidity being demonstrated here folks...no other way to say it.
 

milton friedman lecture on inflation, for those interested.

F92114CB-E61B-4555-A818-9B27B69D65AE.png
 
Indirectly, supply disruptions were affected by the macro, Shanghai shutdown, macro, HUGE DEMAND, macro again (EV trend rising).
Hence Tesla was also affected by the macro, some good, some not so much. Meh.
He should have just said China shutdowns. Macro is such general term.

I don't think he did a good job. He gets it but it was not conveyed very well.
 
Gene's analysis just throws up a lot of numbers. Hard to digest what those mean. There has to be a qualitative rebuttal on what those macro headwinds were - Shanghai shutdown for several weeks due to Covid. There is no need for him to throw any numbers at all.

This is what I would have said and not even bother mentioning any numbers:

"If your factory is shutdown for weeks due to pandemic restrictions, then there won't be any production or deliveries. This is not rocket science to understand. Mentioning lower sales but not mentioning the extended pandemic closures is very disingenuous. The important take away is, as soon they fully reopened the factory in June, they made the highest numbers of cars and sales for any month. June is a record. Nothing wrong in being a bear, but lets give the proper context to the viewers".
 
Yes, unsurprisingly an American property bubble popping hurt the American economy more than the German economy which was being propped up by the ECB at the expense of the rest of Europe.

European unemployment rates are persistently ~double the US level.

View attachment 824901

The economic gap between Europe and the US is widening.
I would also argue being "unemployed" in the eurozone is far different than the US, starting with access to healthcare.

They're "losing ground" in the current dynamic, but are far better positioned to speed through and take advantage of the coming transition to renewables/EVs.

My point is....they're fine from a central banking perspective. If Putin for some reason decides to plunge Europe into long recession and completely neiter this oil & gas spike....so be it. They'll be ok.
 
Correction: Between Q4 2017 when the Model 3 ramp began and Q4 2021, the last quarter we were allowed to have the factories open every week, Tesla grew vehicle production with an average 87% CAGR, not 75%.

Q4 ‘17: 25k
Q4 ‘21: 306k
12.3x growth in four years

If I remember correctly, they were officially projecting 50% CAGR the whole time. I no longer believe those 50% projections.

That's certainly impressive but I think those figures are not the best to project compound future growth rates from for at least a couple of reasons:

1) Of those 25K cars in Q4 2017, only 10% were Model 3's while the remaining 90% were the much more complex to manufacture S&X. On one hand, this makes the compound growth rate of 3 and Y much higher, it is starting from a much smaller number, but compound growth rates from very small numbers are easier. On the other hand, the growth rate comparison starts with a much higher mix of more expensive and more difficult cars to produce than it ends up with.

2) Quarterly results are lumpier and I haven't checked to see how this impacts the comparison.

Let's look at the compound growth rates of total automotive revenues and also gross automotive profits on an annual basis from 2017 to 2021:

Total Automotive revenue in millions:
2017: $9,641
2021: $47,232
CAGR: 48.8%

Automotive gross profit in millions:
2017: $2,222
2021: $13,606
CAGR: 57.3%

I think using dollars rather than unit volumes helps equalize for the trend of the mix to go from harder to produce models to easier to produce models. This 4-year period had relatively low inflation but it would be appropriate to back out a small amount to account for that.

All that said, Tesla is at the beginning of the curve of ramping the two most advanced factories to date so we can expect production growth rates to exceed the norm in the immediate future. In terms of long-term automotive only growth in general, I think the 50% or 50% plus a bit is a good target to use to come up with projections that are appropriately conservative. A lot could happen to make the growth rate slower while making the growth rate substantially higher would require everything to come together in ways that are increasingly unlikely as the growth target rises and also as production volumes increase into truly large numbers. Perhaps profit growth could be stronger than 50% plus a little, but profit growth is more susceptible to vagaries of the economy than production growth is.

While I'm excited about the tremendous growth that's looking increasingly certain for automotive production and delivery, those numbers don't reflect the true potential once AI, robotics and especially energy are factored in. Investing in TSLA at the current price will be very lucrative in the not-too-distant future.

Cheers!
 
You can't be surprised after all this time.
I shouldn't be, yet every time the level of stupid continues to amaze me. The only official news that came out of the P&D report that we didn't already know (anyone paying attention was within about 10k of the P&D numbers already) was that Tesla is now at record production levels.
 
I would also argue being "unemployed" in the eurozone is far different than the US, starting with access to healthcare.

They're "losing ground" in the current dynamic, but are far better positioned to speed through and take advantage of the coming transition to renewables/EVs.

My point is....they're fine from a central banking perspective. If Putin for some reason decides to plunge Europe into long recession and completely neiter this oil & gas spike....so be it. They'll be ok.

This has never historically been correct. European recessions (as a whole, not looking at parts of the EU like Germany) historically are worse than their counterparts in the US.


Sorry, but you are overly optimistic about the rate at which EU can transition to renewables. Even with Putler's war stoking the entire continent to move towards renewables, that's a decade+ long transition. Other countries around the world are going to want renewables, and as Elon has said - batteries are the limiter. Can't spool up production fast enough.
 
Lol are we really down another 4.2% on totally expected news that is not news and not at all related to Tesla AND already in the past?

Wall Street has got to be the largest assembled group of collective morons on the planet. Instead of investing based on the next decade, next year, or next quarter, they're investing based on the LAST quarter.

Complete and utter stupidity being demonstrated here folks...no other way to say it.
Yes, there is another way to say it. Corrupt.