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If you refer to the many posts beck when these events were twos you'll read all about the changes in Delaware Chancery Court procedures and approach in the last few years. It was very well documented here and elsewhere. I, for one, do not want to repeat all that for people who will not do the very basic research for themselves. Your favorite search engine can find all about it, including the specific judge in question and the policies regarding class actions that changed to favor plantiffs.


That's a really long not-answer, especially to a question I asked someone else entirely.

As to your non-response- I was here then-(and years before of course)- and the only thing I recall were folks saying she's the same judge as the twitter case so clearly she hates Elon (despite the fact the twitter case- never reached a verdict, it was settled-- and it was a much clearer cut example of proper application of enforcing a valid contract)


Again, the actual question (and it wasn't even for you, but feel free to actually answer if you feel compelled to reply)-

Do you have any examples of other decisions by the judge that would be considered activist?

A quick google as you suggest BTW turned up nothing except.... angry Tesla bulls insisting she is one, without any evidence of it at all beyond the political party of the governor who appointed her.

Hence my asking for some examples of such evidence as you're insistent is easily found.
 
The "...everyone's satisfaction..." comment is not true.

I think the first time this was voted on back in 2018, around 30% rejected the proposal so it wasn't that ALL shareholders wanted this actually. I suppose that's the downside of any public company and possibly/maybe why SpaceX, Boring, Neural Link, xAI, etc will never go public, especially with companies able to tap secondary markets to sell stock without a public offering now. That's just the negative/downside of any public corporation now.

It's similar to how all of society is now pretty much, should the non-majority be silenced or have no voice just because say, 51% wants one thing and folks assume that's what everyone wants when people say the shareholders have spoken? You can look at this with how things are in CA, TX, FL pretty much any country/state/vote, but it's not true that 100% shareholders supported the comp plan, even back then. If more people wanted to file suit, you could have Uncle Leo with his millions of shares file a suit too (when people bring up that pathetic 9 share owner brought the suit).

I guess the answer from folks here is then for the "winners" of a close vote, to say, well, if you didn't get your way, just sell the stock (or move out of the state), but my only reason for replying is that no, it wasn't a unanimous choice for a fairly large amount of shareholders, even back then.

To combine posts here:
I think Delaware also doesn't tax intellectual property so moving will force Tesla to pay a few hundred million in profits I've read a while back. There is probably valid reasons that DE is known to be pretty business friendly and why the majority of companies are incorporated there, but shareholders can have their say soon.
such is the nature of a democracy. We had 2 parties to the contract: Elon Musk and TSLA shareholders collectively. TSLA shareholders voted to approve the package. I'm not saying those who voted no could have sold. No, that wouldn't be helpful. Just that, by staying, they elected to remain in the party and got what the party bargained for. So Elon Musk fulfilled his end of the contract to the party. That should have been it.

If the minority could just sue and overturn any past decision, that would defeat the purpose of a vote. There'd be no way for a democracy to decide on anything. Should we just dismantle all government bodies and corporate structures so that everyone can go back to growing their own crops and raising their own chicken? That's the only way we each can get everything exactly the way we want it without being subject to others' opinions.
 
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Hopefully one day the dealership cartel can be overthrown.
It is interesting to see how Tesla approached that cartel in Texas. Seems like they just went around them, rather than trying to fight head on. Similar to how they've handled the still ongoing Swedish labor situation.
Many Texans, myself included, bought Teslas online like everyone else. The additional hassle the cartel protectionist laws forced on me was having to go to a physical tax office to register the car. That was a pain but not insurmountable given the reward.
 
such is the nature of a democracy. We had 2 parties to the contract: Elon Musk and TSLA shareholders collectively. TSLA shareholders voted to approve the package. I'm not saying those who voted no could have sold. No, that wouldn't be helpful. Just that, by staying, they elected to remain in the party and got what the party bargained for. So Elon Musk fulfilled his end of the contract to the party. That should have been it.

If the minority could just sue and overturn any past decision, that would defeat the purpose of a vote. There'd be no way for a democracy to decide on anything. Should we just dismantle all government bodies and corporate structures so that everyone can go back to growing their own crops and raising their own chicken? That's the only way we each can get everything exactly the way we want it without being subject to others' opinions.

The problem from what I've seen on the case is that the contract was essentially not impartial, didn't have adequate disclosures...and the board, which has a fiduciary duty to watch out for all shareholders, was not doing their job since Elon had complete control of the supposed "independent" board. There are folks who are still withholding votes for his brother and the Murdock guy.

The example is like if had you vote on something, but the board didn't provide you with honest, correct disclosures due to someone not wanting to disclose info, you're signing, voting on something that did not have your best interest in effect. That was the problem with the comp plan to begin with from what I've seen. If it was all above board, maybe this case wouldn't have even happened or we wouldn't be here. Note that if this was in Texas, a lawyer in the article essentially said it would result in the same thing.


"In the filing, Tesla said it intends to appeal the decision. If shareholders approve the new package, disclosure and procedural deficiencies and breaches of the board’s fiduciary duty detailed by McCormick should be fixed, the filing said."


As it's a waste of board space to get into a long thing with you on this (and I can't even vote so it has no effect on me), you shareholders will get a vote soon, but it's humorous how folks here get all worked up if anyone wants to vote NO since they may have voted no before (I think 30% did), and it also dilutes current shareholders by 10% as well. Of course, some folks even want Elon gone so there's that, not to mention he'll need another comp plan to get him over 25% control from what I've seen/read or he won't develop AI internally. More possible dilution, but if shareholders like you want to do that and all properly disclosed, then that's ok of course.
 
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That's a really long not-answer, especially to a question I asked someone else entirely.

...

Hence my asking for some examples of such evidence as you're insistent is easily found.
OK, here si one specific rule change:
"Rule 23 - Class Actions (a) Prerequisites. One or more members of a class may sue or be sued as representative parties on behalf of all members only if: (1) the class is so numerous that joinder of all members is impracticable; (2) there are questions of law or fact common to the class.."
That's a really long not-answer, especially to a question I asked someone else entirely.
I'm sad to have so offended you.
Hence my asking for some examples of such evidence as you're insistent is easily found.
Nearly all the changes in question originate with recent revisions in Delaware Chancery Court procedures. One specific change is the source of most dismay among those Delaware-incorporated companies I know about:


The new Chancery Court Chancellor in 2021 has been notable for changes in court practices regarding Rule 23 and also regarding caution-related issues. Her wiki only discusses the most disputed cases:

There is muh more history of changes since 2021, but perhaps the most notable is the class action certification process. Rule 23 implies changes that the individual judge interprets.

The histrionics regarding the Musk cases are the result, to a large extent, of the textual explanations attached to Chancellor McCormick's decisions.

In context, changes in those practices do reflect a major departure from tradition, which dates to 1792:
A Short History of the Court of Chancery - Court of Chancery - Delaware Courts - State of Delaware

The centuries-long history of corporate interests really had few major consequences until 2021.

The specific history, as described by USA Today some time ago was:
"Corporations also favor Delaware because case law has established the “business judgment rule,” which dictates that judges shouldn’t second-guess a business’ decisions when they are made in good faith and with due care, even if those decisions have negative consequences."

The 2021 revisions have largely eliminated that legacy, with the Musk Compensation decision being the most clear and unequivocal rejection of that case law.


These changes are not about Mr. Musk, they are a definite and deliberate set of changes to adopt more 'populist' approaches. Class action certification is the largest single change, while a major revision of practices regarding Board of Directors roles simply became most highly visible in the Tesla case, and the change in view towards non specified due diligence expectations in mergers has been observed in multiple cases, most visibly in the two lists in the Chancellor's wiki.

That this and those changes have been broadly discussed . On the other hand, I did not address the case histories for Chancellor McCormick.

This may not be what you wanted, but it is what was discussed with regard to the Twitter case and the compensation case. As for the reactions, reading the text of Chancellor McCormicks decisions explains partly why the people I know with this jurisdiction are actively considering their options.

FWIW, the only place other than Delaware being considered of which I know is Nevada.
Only Musk companies seen to regard Texas as a viable option at this time, since there is zero history and the new Texas law is structured to ensure continuing political control.

I hope that helps. Delaware corporations are not 'leaving in droves' and none are so imprudent as to announce such intentions. They are quite conscious that the corporate governance history in Delaware is no longer followed. That makes every CEO nervous, makes Boards nervous and makes 'errors and omissions' policies rather harder to acquire.
 
They are now advertising the vote to the most informed group of investors.


Screenshot 2024-05-25 at 4.49.37 PM.jpg
 
I stopped questioning Tesla's rational long ago. 100% owning a factory in China blew my mind already. Building a factory in Texas, again poof! And yet it's pumping out vehicles without constraint. I can't say the same for some of the other factories who seem to think the ants have more clout.

What is quite clear is Tesla's pattern of globalization; they go for the throat and pick their factory locations according to economics and logistics of course, but all things equal they seem to pick regions of maximum resistance (politically).

To me, it's the equivalent of punching the biggest guy in the nose to gain instant respect and attention. McFly knew of this phenomenon back when 1.21 Giga Watts was unimaginable. Further, it could also be a way of ensuring that the people of that region get first hand knowledge (from within) which eventually erodes the old paradigms socially, and then politically. (German EV survey for example - the people have spoken.)

More evidence can be realized by looking at the attempt to allow the Saudi's in at the 420 mark. Oil people on the Tesla board??? If this had happened, there might have even been a factory in the Middle East today. (Edit: Perhaps that attempt was aimed at solving global tension surrounding oil.)
China punches back, though. Hard. And at a time of its choosing.
 
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Reactions: SOULPEDL
Glass Lewis recommending against compensation and Texas move. Glass Lewis makes recommendations to institutional investors.

I understand they were against the compensation plan in 2018.


"‘Excessive’ pay deal will dilute existing shareholders" Would've thought the uncertainty a "no" vote would create will do that by dropping the stock price hard. But what do I know?
 
@Knightshade I find you insufferable
I find this funny because, even When @Knightshade responds to posts where he thinks they are wrong and tries to correct them, the other person he is responding to tries to defend themselves, and they wind up continuing to be wrong, yet push the issue. Feelings and opinions should never be part of fact based information. If you want to argue, feel free to have an opinion, but state that and don’t try and state facts when those facts are clearly wrong and just opinion...you continue to dig a deeper hole, or, you try and change the argument/goalposts.

When @Knightshade is wrong, he admits it. When others argue, just to argue, it is not a good look. And you all know who you are.
 
Where did you get this screenshot from? Your source for this is suspect for the following reasons:

1. If you search on tslchan's X feed right now, you are unable to find this tweet. He must have deleted it since he posted it.
2. I remember seeing Tslachan post either this exact post or something very similar to it several days ago (probably about a week ago), yet the screenshot you posted states it was 23hrs ago. As mentioned above, I searched tslachan's X feed for this post from a week ago or whatever, and could not find it.

No idea why you can’t see it on his X feed - here it is, still up right now:


IMG_1100.jpeg
 
...
The example is like if had you vote on something, but [nobody] provided you with honest, correct disclosures due to someone not wanting to disclose info, you're signing, voting on something that did not have your best interest in effect. ...

As an American, I don't think I have ever voted in any other election where I felt both sides provided full, complete, honest info and had my best interest in mind.

This goes for voting for candidates as well as voting for assorted propositions, etc.

In the case of the original shareholder vote, I at least knew the terms of the deal: if Elon achieved key performance metrics and multiplied Tesla's market value by a factor of 12, then he would earn options to purchase up to 12% of Tesla shares at a discounted price, in 1% increments for each performance milestone achieved.

In terms of knowing the results/consequences of my vote, it was 100% clear. And every commentary on it at the time thought the milestones would be nearly impossible...so, based on the analysis at the time, Elon would have to be a miracle worker to achieve them.

Poof, miracle achieved.

The argument the court and Mr. 9 shares is making is that *maybe* the board could have negotiated a better deal if they didn't love Elon, and the shareholders *maybe* didn't know how much the board loved Elon.

Personally, that sounds like useless nonsense to complain about when the terms of the deal for the vote were clear. The conditions of the deal mattered to me, and I thought it quite reasonable for a guy to gain options to buy 12% of a company at a discount if he could increase the company's value by such a huge factor. I didn't and don't care how the deal was arrived at behind the scenes, and I suspect other folks pushing for a "yes" vote today are thinking along similar lines.
 
Judging by your nick you most likely know a lot more about New Zealand than I do, which is almost nothing, but the economy seems to have been growing fine for the past 50 years. Are you saying New Zealand would have been better off with trade restrictions?

It was viewed as a grand experiment, which resulted in large structural changes to the economy. Our manufacturing sector was decimated, but the country continued to grow in other areas with considerably lower wages (services, primary sector, tourism).

One can argue the reforms “ripped the bandaid off” and accelerated what was inevitable anyway, and the removal of subsidies made what industries survived much more efficient/competitive (see our dairy farming sector).

It also created a very low taxation environment (remarkable this was all introduced by the left wing party) These days the main issue is the distortion of the housing market as an investment vehicle, but that’s another story.
 
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And the people of New Zealand are probably better off. Lower prices, good availability of goods, and the job loss was probably a very small percentage of the work force. Higher tariffs across the board for the US would add only one job per every 300 or 400 people, and the higher inflation would affect everyone. Tariffs are economicly foolish but popular with voters.

I mean, the results for that period speak for themselves unfortunately:

1716674621592.gif


Using current PPPs this graph charts gross domestic product (GDP) per capita for seven countries against the OECD average (which is 100). It shows that in 1976 the New Zealand GDP was above the OECD average, and the country ranked 12th out of 26 countries. By 2006 New Zealand had fallen to 83% of the average, and was ranked 22nd out of 30 OECD countries
 
If votes are a no, maybe Elon has other plans.

Bloomberg) -- Elon Musk’s SpaceX has initiated discussions about selling existing shares at a price that could value the closely held company at roughly $200 billion, according to people familiar with the matter.

Vote goes south, Elon steps in and buys a few Billion of stock, he doesn't need votes to get to 25%. (He did sell Tesla shares to buy X, so he is also partly to blame for his current predicament- (having less shares))
Sell some SpaceX, neuralink etc and put that money into Tesla so he can have a 25% stake in all companies and control all of them for the future X Corp.

If he were to buy shares before the vote, i think he has to spend less and get more votes ...
 
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A lot of fear-mongering is nonsense. Just takes time to be found out. USA used Teslas selling fast. No indication nor X replies as to what is a typical "Days on Market" - but implication that for Teslas it's a low number of days. More info would be useful.

"
Car Dealership Guy @GuyDealership
Tesla are hitting the private-party market — and *not* staying long.

Some highlights from 600+ Tesla’s listed on Private Auto:

• Avg. Mileage: 43,255
• Avg. Price: $40,361
Avg. Days on Market: Only 26 (!)

The private-party market is eating up pre-owned Tesla’s at current price points.

Check out available cars across the private-party market, with insights just like these, on Private Auto: Safely Buy And Sell Used Cars Privately | PrivateAuto | PrivateAuto

(Data via CDG partner:
@_PrivateAuto

#privateautopartner)"


Now this is the kind of posts I come here for. Keep it up 👍
 
Yeah, I believe that this is actually v12.4.

He actually seems to have an X account (Googled the YouTube username), and his interactions there are a bit weird.

First, when being accused of faking it, his first response is "How do you know?" instead of something like "I'm an employee, it's real."


And then he seems to say the nag is still there, despite the fact that we saw it go away without touching the wheel:


So I am wondering now if something like this could be faked with S3XY buttons to dismiss the nags (like Omar does). He could have also faked the software screen by displaying a full-screen image in the web browser or something.

He also refused to post the release notes, which would have been harder to fake as they would have involved scrolling the screen:

 
But even the latest data on that graph 18 years old. New Zealand's GDP has grown significantly since then and they're pretty near the middle of the OECD rankings? GDP and spending - Gross domestic product (GDP) - OECD Data
Yes, we have grown GDP since 2006 at ok rate supported by high immigration etc, but the previous chart in my post was GDP per capita, showing damage was all done in the years following the mid 80s reforms, when NZ went from one of the relatively richest per capita GDP in the world with a high wage economy, to being a middling OECD member (still wealthy from a global perspective, but not quite what it once was).

As an example, here is the ratio of NZ vs USA GDP per capita.

Before reforms (1982) 79%
After reforms (1992) 63%
And most recent data (2022): 68%

So it was like a massive one time hit, and since then not much evidence that the 1980 reforms enabled significantly faster economic growth than other countries who dropped tariffs etc at much more gradual pace. But who knows, maybe NZ would have been worse off without those reforms and it would be in a worse state rather than the current “meh” status.
 
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