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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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Almost every long-term TSLA investor is experiencing Fear Doubt and Uncertainty while many other stocks and indexes are hitting ATH. Any investor experiencing these feelings when their largest holding is down 58% is human, not some sort of cult of conspiracy funded by the shorts.
No, just no.

Most TSLA investors can see through the short-term issues that have been affecting TSLA and most can see the long-term remarkable strengths. Short-term, China has been a difficult auto market for everyone, but if you look at Roland Pircher's charts on x.com, you can see that Tesla is on track to match 2023's China insurance registrations, which is a real positive in this environment. Some of the oversupply in China EV manufacturing will be eliminated through this tough time, which is how supply and demand come back into equilibrium with each other. Pircher's Europe data shows a 7.5% dip over 2023 as of end of April. In the U.S., Tesla is the EV maker that dominates the market but it is feeling the effects of no IRA incentives for two out of three Model 3 flavors. Many potential buyers for Model 3 are simply waiting for Tesla to shift the battery supply (may be in 2025) before buying so that they can realize the incentive. Cybertruck is a big hit and will be growing in production substantially as 2024 progresses. Auto buying in the U.S. overall will perk up after interest rates start coming down, and that's a waiting game. Here's the important point, though: Tesla is still generating BILLIONS in cash flow that it is using to fund its next moves.

Here are Tesla's next moves:
* Tesla is projecting that Energy product deliveries grow 75% in 2024 compared to 2023. That's a high margin business at present and energy is going to be generating BILLIONS of dollars in cash before long
* In late 2024 or 2025, Tesla will reveal the lower-cost models that will use a combination of Gen 2 and Gen 3 construction techniques. Tesla will extend its lead in North America's EV market and these same vehicles will sell worldwide in time.
* By the end of 2024 Tesla will have spent $10 BILLION in expanding its AI compute power so that it can better train FSD, Optimus robots, and more general AI objectives. Only a handful of companies are capable of expanding their AI compute this quickly and it's necessary to give Neural Nets the power to speed up the development of FSD and Optimus. Here's the kicker, though: Google, Meta, and Microsoft lack the manufacturing chops to compete head to head with Tesla in robotics, and only Tesla has the EV know how and data to quickly spin up a domineering position in the robotaxi world. Tesla's robotaxi reveal on August 8 will further illustrate Tesla's lead in reaching the insanely high margins that come to operating the first really widespread robotaxi fleet. Useful, unsupervised FSD will HUGELY affect Tesla's ability to sell its vehicles because 1) FSD is so useful for the elderly or for people who want to turn their attention elsewhere while in the vehicle, and 2) fleet operators will buy Teslas to operate on Tesla's robotaxi network.

So, Tesla's automobile revenues continue to generate the funds to facilitate BIG profit centers known as Tesla Energy, Tesla (robotaxi) Network, and Optimus robots while developing new vehicle types and waiting for the economic environment to improve. You need to step back and look at the whole of Tesla to appreciate where this company is heading.
 
Wait a second??????? I can't be the only one. One of you hardcore people how about telling us something...
I see Elon raised funds for Xai. I thought Tesla paid for all the AI work using them fancy DOJO chips?
How is it now a "non-tesla" thing? How can FSD not be at the base of all that is Xai? Elon did not sell some more stock to buy out the AI that was done by TSLA for FSD?
Wasn't AI part of the package that your investor types have as part of your value for TSLA?

Now I ain't the only one so don't think I am being a bear. But I thought Tesla was being used by Elon to do his AI thing?
 
because I’ve seriously been contemplating selling everything lately. My net worth is getting uncomfortably low and the FUD is working on me. Not the first time of course. I’m pretty good at selling at the bottom.
I wouldn't give anyone short term stock advice. However, lots of very savvy people have bailed out of Tesla after the twitter adventure and the lack of focus on EM part and then with a famous poster when they turned to common ad buying in the face of declining sales. So if you sell that's a fine thing to do and only you know. If you keep it that's a fine thing and only you know your situation.

No reason you can't continue to post on here if you sell. If they return to a sustainability focus I'd consider investing in a year or two. I don't believe ai helps in sustainability, exactly the opposite by the time we do all the accounting. That's the purpose of my interest.
 
Wait a second??????? I can't be the only one. One of you hardcore people how about telling us something...
I see Elon raised funds for Xai. I thought Tesla paid for all the AI work using them fancy DOJO chips?
How is it now a "non-tesla" thing? How can FSD not be at the base of all that is Xai? Elon did not sell some more stock to buy out the AI that was done by TSLA for FSD?
Wasn't AI part of the package that your investor types have as part of your value for TSLA?

Now I ain't the only one so don't think I am being a bear. But I thought Tesla was being used by Elon to do his AI thing?
Elon made it clear that he wants a path to reaching a 25% voting position (or higher) in Tesla before committing to giving Tesla a prime position in developing AGI. He can maintain a control position of X.ai and so that's where the AGI work will be happening in the near term. Nonetheless, Tesla is going to have massive compute by the end of 2024 (more than X.ai) and if Elon can feel comfortable with Tesla's voting structure in the future, then I really believe that Tesla will partner with X.ai for Artificial General Intelligence development. Tesla simply has too much compute power incoming and too much talent to ignore.

Elon cannot simply walk away with FSD and Optimus. Those are Tesla intellectual property and always will be. Ditto for the $10 Billion in compute that Tesla will own. I feel confident that Elon really wants his various companies working together in a synergistic fashion that will benefit all. It's important to give Elon his (already earned) pay package so that we can get back on track of pulling all these companies back into supporting one another. For example, I can't wait to see what spinoffs from Grok are coming to Tesla vehicles. I suggest a robotaxi rider will be able to give commands in many languages to the car on where they want it to go and where they want it to park (if the rider has a specific wish).
 
If this photo has already made the rounds I apologize but if not, I like this.
1716858058890.png
 
Wait a second??????? I can't be the only one. One of you hardcore people how about telling us something...
I see Elon raised funds for Xai. I thought Tesla paid for all the AI work using them fancy DOJO chips?
How is it now a "non-tesla" thing? How can FSD not be at the base of all that is Xai? Elon did not sell some more stock to buy out the AI that was done by TSLA for FSD?
Wasn't AI part of the package that your investor types have as part of your value for TSLA?

Now I ain't the only one so don't think I am being a bear. But I thought Tesla was being used by Elon to do his AI thing?
My impression is Xai is mainly developing Grok and similar LLM products similar to the AI Microsoft, Google, Apple and others are developing. Mainly to do with words, text and speech.

Tesla AI is mainly in the vision space FSD, occupancy networks, object recognition for Optimus.

It would be handy if we could have an intelligent dialogue with Optimus and the cars, Tesla might be able to license the tech from Xai.

It is hard to know where to draw the boundaries, if Tesla paid for the development of Grok but the first roll out was on X, shareholders might not be happy about that.
 
Wait a second??????? I can't be the only one. One of you hardcore people how about telling us something...
I see Elon raised funds for Xai. I thought Tesla paid for all the AI work using them fancy DOJO chips?
How is it now a "non-tesla" thing? How can FSD not be at the base of all that is Xai? Elon did not sell some more stock to buy out the AI that was done by TSLA for FSD?
Wasn't AI part of the package that your investor types have as part of your value for TSLA?

Now I ain't the only one so don't think I am being a bear. But I thought Tesla was being used by Elon to do his AI thing?
when you think "AI" is a single animal, like a Big Mac...
 
Wait a second??????? I can't be the only one. One of you hardcore people how about telling us something...
I see Elon raised funds for Xai. I thought Tesla paid for all the AI work using them fancy DOJO chips?
How is it now a "non-tesla" thing? How can FSD not be at the base of all that is Xai? Elon did not sell some more stock to buy out the AI that was done by TSLA for FSD?
Wasn't AI part of the package that your investor types have as part of your value for TSLA?

Now I ain't the only one so don't think I am being a bear. But I thought Tesla was being used by Elon to do his AI thing?
It takes 9 to 12 months to go from chip shipments to datacenter being online. XAI have been renting server space from major companies like Oracle until a year or two into the future.
 
Wait a second??????? I can't be the only one. One of you hardcore people how about telling us something...
I see Elon raised funds for Xai. I thought Tesla paid for all the AI work using them fancy DOJO chips?
How is it now a "non-tesla" thing? How can FSD not be at the base of all that is Xai? Elon did not sell some more stock to buy out the AI that was done by TSLA for FSD?
Wasn't AI part of the package that your investor types have as part of your value for TSLA?

Now I ain't the only one so don't think I am being a bear. But I thought Tesla was being used by Elon to do his AI thing?

Mars. He just wants to go to Mars.
 
Mars. He just wants to go to Mars.
Not true, he wants Earth to stay healthy and populated by humans, AND he wants Mars to be populated by humans also.

If either planet isn't populated by humans in a sustainable fashion that is bad. He isn't looking to leave one alone to focus on the other.

Even if he goes to Mars someday, he'll still be splitting his focus between planets.
 
Not true, he wants Earth to stay healthy and populated by humans, AND he wants Mars to be populated by humans also.

If either planet isn't populated by humans in a sustainable fashion that is bad. He isn't looking to leave one alone to focus on the other.

Even if he goes to Mars someday, he'll still be splitting his focus between planets.

If we're going to attack semantics on my posts regularly, please re-read before you make assumptions. I never mentioned my interpretation on his voiced intentions is Earth or Mars. I'm just interpretating his words about going to Mars.

I would highly doubt if someone of his caliber of intelligence and ethics would make the viability of the two mutually exclusive. Also, there's something to be said for Mars requiring a healthy Planet Earth to subsist a human civilization on that planet, no?
 
Folks,
Unfortunately due to the prolonged dip in TSLA that is being supported to 58% or higher percentage of selling tagged to shorts for over three weeks, FUDsters are very plentiful on this investing site right now. In case you forgot, FUD stands for:
* FEAR
* UJNCERTAINTY
* DOUBT
Those individuals who are regularly posting questionable material that leads to fear, uncertainty, and doubt in TSLA investors aren't going to disappear until TSLA takes a material climb higher or the uncertainty of the annual meeting's vote is resolved. In the meantime, look for factual information on Tesla's performance. Sometimes a good member makes an error with a post, but the usual suspects leave little doubt about why they're here.
I still prefer:
Funked
Up
Data
which then creates Fear, Uncertainty, and, Doubt. The above graphs are a perfect example. People will look at that and be drawn to 64% after THAT short period in time, without taking the starting percentage into consideration.... when you do that, it's actually quite positive.

Figures don't lie, but liars figure. We're seeing more of that than ever recently, especially in presidential politics.
 
Wait a second??????? I can't be the only one. One of you hardcore people how about telling us something...
I see Elon raised funds for Xai. I thought Tesla paid for all the AI work using them fancy DOJO chips?
How is it now a "non-tesla" thing? How can FSD not be at the base of all that is Xai? Elon did not sell some more stock to buy out the AI that was done by TSLA for FSD?
Wasn't AI part of the package that your investor types have as part of your value for TSLA?

Now I ain't the only one so don't think I am being a bear. But I thought Tesla was being used by Elon to do his AI thing?
1. As far as we know, Tesla didn't spend any money on anything related to xAI. Elon may have used some of the money he got by selling TSLA shares to invest in xAI, that's the only plausible connection.
2. xAI did not use Dojo chips, they rent GPUs from Oracle (Larry Ellison is a friend of Elon). Also Dojo v1 is optimized for video used in FSD training, probably can't be used by xAI anyways.
3. FSD is not the base of xAI product (Grok), totally different types of AI models and different training data.
 
Here's TSLA's P/S and Market Cap over recent quarters.

Source: https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/TSLA/key-statistics

View attachment 1051175

With everything they're accomplishing in FSD, Robotics, Autobidder, etc...

Some P/S Ratios (most recent):

MSFT: 13.58
GOOG: 7.01
AAPL: 7.78
AMZN: 3.23
NVDA: 33.28
META: 8.83
NFLX: 8.23
RIVN: 2.01

It was the Q1 terrorist attacks that are really screwing up TSLA. Nothing else, IMO. This should be a 10x+ P/S ratio company, if not more.

Edit: To add, when BTC ramped up in 2017...there was huge corresponding blockchain usage ramp-up in tech companies applying the tech stack between 2015-2016. What's going on in TSLA R&D is beyond that and they don't have widespread industry adoption yet. Once there is, I wouldn't be surprised of another TSLA ramp re-evaluating the company.
Why are you focusing on Price/Sales? It is an essentially meaningless metric for comparing companies with vastly different gross margin and growth profiles. For all its issues, the classic PE ratios and PEG ratios are far better to use.
 
I'm liking the update too. We now have speed camera detection built in to navigation in the UK, and something I'd not seen before is average speed camera detection where it autosums your average speed in real time while letting you know when the end of the average speed camera zone is so you know if you are staying below it. First time I've seen anything like it, but I haven't used 3rd party speed camera apps in the past.

The introduction rate of non-autopilot and app features has gone up recently. It’s as if they now have more c++ developers available.
Another side effect of removing the bulk of the autopilot c++ code.
 
I'm liking the update too. We now have speed camera detection built in to navigation in the UK, and something I'd not seen before is average speed camera detection where it autosums your average speed in real time while letting you know when the end of the average speed camera zone is so you know if you are staying below it. First time I've seen anything like it, but I haven't used 3rd party speed camera apps in the past.
I really like the new navigation summary WITH traffic data. The little blue line now has orange and red sections on the line warning you of bad traffic much further down your route. Especially usefull for me that always keeps the navigation in the follow the car mode and the map fairly zoomed in to give me immediate overview. On longer trips I used to switch between summary map and follow the car map to get the overview. Now I get the overview simultanously as the next mile data from the bigger map. The speed trap data is also nice for longer trips (I know of all the ones in my city anyway).
 
My impression is Xai is mainly developing Grok and similar LLM products similar to the AI Microsoft, Google, Apple and others are developing. Mainly to do with words, text and speech.

Tesla AI is mainly in the vision space FSD, occupancy networks, object recognition for Optimus.

It would be handy if we could have an intelligent dialogue with Optimus and the cars, Tesla might be able to license the tech from Xai.

It is hard to know where to draw the boundaries, if Tesla paid for the development of Grok but the first roll out was on X, shareholders might not be happy about that.
My wild speculation below. If Xai genuinely creates a good product and continues to increase in value it may be an alternate path for Elon to get the 25% control he wants in Tesla. Xai could get perpetual rights to X data and be sold to Tesla so it then has both language and video data for future training. This would be useful for bot development and to remove a perceived conflict of interest.

It's valued at $18b now, but if it gets to $50b+ it would add meaningfully to Elon's ownership stake.
 
I still prefer:
Funked
Up
Data
which then creates Fear, Uncertainty, and, Doubt. The above graphs are a perfect example. People will look at that and be drawn to 64% after THAT short period in time, without taking the starting percentage into consideration.... when you do that, it's actually quite positive.

Figures don't lie, but liars figure. We're seeing more of that than ever recently, especially in presidential politics.
I see FUD as defined by the intention of the person posting it. The exact same information could be FUD or not depending on whether the poster is trying to scare/manipulate the audience or whether it is something they want to genuinely share and discuss in context of the wider topic of Tesla.
 

I like this promotion, even if a little too much admin required. In principle, I like straightforward things, lower costs, longer warranties - but I'm aware that many like ideas/lotteries like this


Sawyer Merritt @SawyerMerritt
NEWS: Chinese Tesla customers who complete their vehicle deliveries between May 25 and June 30 will have the chance to win a free tour of Tesla's Fremont factory in the US with airfare and transportation costs included, Tesla announced today on Weibo.