Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[FEERSUMENDJIN]

Just wondering how in the hell this post hasn’t been removed yet for political reasons or other…? A couple weeks ago I had a post with a combination of 53 likes and loves, and that was recommended by @unk45 as a post of particular merit- that was quickly removed for ‘political reasons’ simply because a portion of my post discussed that Elon was on X to share information of an Independent candidate - instead of Elon just casting support for the Far Right’ as a recently-acquired TMC troll claimed. To not immediately remove posts like this one from @ggies07 seems to suggest some bias IMO. Otherwise let’s keep open for discussion the ideas that Elon isn’t ‘Far Right’, and let’s discuss how Elon might have some anger still for policies that were argued in an effort to shut down the Fremont factory such as the 6’ social distancing ‘rule’ that was recently revealed by its own author while under oath to not be based on anything - it just sort of appeared.

Censorship is a slippery slope - even when used with the best intentions, as it can ultimately prove to be just as hurtful in the end. An example of that might be all the significant TMC contributors in the past who can no longer can be found here, while Trolls and anger seem to rule the day now instead.

I agree. As a lefty scientist who has followed Fauci's statements regarding the US funding of coronavirus "functional" studies in Wuhan, I would not put Elon's position as some MAGA nonsense

 

[FEERSUMENDJIN]

The cost difference between Waymo's robotaxi vehicles and Tesla's robotaxi vehicles will easily be more on the order of $20K to $30K. And I'm probably being generous.

It's not the cost per unit that matters. It is the fact that we have a fleet of 5 million already in place. That is all that matters when it comes to winning this war.

 

[Dreadnought]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1799571673181769868

The car may have reacted on the oncoming traffic and not the gesture. And I saw a mention of a similar situation (in the FSD thread or elsewhere, can't remember unfortunately) where the car only stopped when the construction worker blocked the vehicle path.

Post in thread 'FSD v12.x (end to end AI)' FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

 

[FEERSUMENDJIN]

It’s the price for the energy component. The distribution cost is still something like 10 to 15 cents, so still not entirely negative.
But yeah, most people don’t realise it’s possible to charge your car really cheaply without having to invest in solar.
As more renewable energy is added to the grid, I expect discounts on the distribution cost too in the not too far future. That would make the total price completely negative.

I don't charge my car with my solar. I charge my car on the grid overnight and sell all my solar to the grid during the day for over double the price

 

[Usain]

I've also attached the document that contains ALL of the instances when a Waymo operator had to intervene in ANY way.

I don't see that attachment. Seems to be missing?

 

[advocate8]

I agree. As a lefty scientist who has followed Fauci's statements regarding the US funding of coronavirus "functional" studies in Wuhan, I would not put Elon's position as some MAGA nonsense

This is veering even futher OT. There are plenty of other places to discuss the inconclusive theories about the origins of COVID-19.

 

[aubreymcfato]

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/file/2023-autonomous-vehicle-disengagement-reports-csv/

At the URL you mentioned, I don't download the CSV you pasted here.

View attachment 1055163

The CSV I downloaded (automatically) mentions a lot of different systems: for Waymo, there are ~200 disengagements in 2023, but with a driver always present in the vehicle.
Maybe you made a mistake with the link?

 

[JoRoMo]

Well, let’s see if I can get you to reverse your downvote, or simply amass more such.

Yes, I most certainly am serious. I cannot abide someone who is a weasel with his words. Who dissembles. Who tergiversates (look those up if you have to).

I parsed out what is irresponsible in that statement; I can do it again:


We are starting to get to the point where, once known bugs are fixed, it will take over a year of driving to get even one intervention

So: what does the statement say of where we are?

• We’re not AT the point.
  • We’re not even getting to the point.
    • We’re STARTING.

What point? The point that,

• IF bugs are fixed, we’ll have a good product.

This is some 7 1/2 years after proclaiming reaching by year’s end (end 2017) US coast-to-coast self-driving without interventions.
In retrospect, that was a mistake. A rather large one, yet one that I and many - most, I am sure - accepted and forgave.

But a man who does not learn from his mistakes, but repeats and repeats and repeats what is effectively the same mistake is someone whose word means nothing. Who cannot be trusted.

A man who did not get my vote for an enormous incentive - by far the largest in nominal terms in the history of the world, and very likely in real terms as well - and who will not get my vote again this month.

Someone who does not belong at the helm of this critical company.

I long ago proclaimed myself as a long-term investor; I have tried to make this thread focused on same, rather than one for traders or for those who make use of derivative products.

I will today clarify that. I do not consider TSLA a “long term” holding, rather, I have set it up in our investment trust to be a multi-generational one. Just as one side of my family, those who over two centuries ago created the glass industry in Pittsburgh, “always” had PPG in the family, and another side held Std. Oil and its progeny as multigenerational investments.
As such, that Elon Musk presently is the company’s CEO is of fleeting consequence. There WILL be a time when he no longer is CEO, nor retired, nor even alive. He WILL be followed by others.

This misstatement - this series of misstatements - is serious but it is not the gravest he has made concerning Tesla. For me, that was his announcement that he needed to be ==given== enough shares for him to own 25% of the outstanding. Not that he would have clearance to purchase them to achieve the same goal, but that, in the purest distillation, to be gifted them.

To have made this statement after he not only earlier - 2015? - proclaimed “I will be the last one out”; after on Jan 4 2017 at the Gigafactory told a group of Wall St. professionals, including me, “You have nothing to worry about my selling any shares, at least not until I need to fund Mars colonization“; and then after selling shares - chasing the market downward as he funded his TWTR purchase - boggles any investor’s imagination.

Having voted “No” for his 2018 incentive package - for reasons I have laid out in an earlier, recent, post - makes it that much easier to overcome my distaste for the Delaware court’s ruling and its overreach of (other) investors - other shareholders!, and once again vote No.

Summarizing:
Mr Musk will not head this company for the entire time I - with my descendants - expect to be owning the handsome position I have built in what I consider to be the ascendant corporation of our time. He no longer has my vote of confidence and I would be happy to see his replacement at the helm, sooner rather than later.

Thank you for clarifying for me.

I have been pondering an elaborate answer, but end up finding your view on the world (and in paticular reading of Elon) to be just alien to me.

Suffice to say that my downvote stays, solidly.

 

[SO16]

This is great! I’m getting a wonderful list of people that will have no problem doing a bunch of work for me and not get upset when I decide to renege on the contract.

 

[UkNorthampton]

Thank you for clarifying for me.

I have been pondering an elaborate answer, but end up finding your view on the world (and in paticular reading of Elon) to be just alien to me.

Suffice to say that my downvote stays, solidly.

Elon has got grief for being optimistic. He might have been trained by people's previous reactions to be more circumspect/cautious.

I think this bloke got some grief as well

Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.

Winston Churchill

And I don't approve of all of Winston S. Churchill's utterances or beliefs either. Unconventional (yet effective) man though.

You can trace the history of the world through him and a handful of his contemporaries. I suspect Elon will occupy a similar place in history and culture.

 

[UkNorthampton]

This is great! I’m getting a wonderful list of people that will have no problem doing a bunch of work for me and not get upset when I decide to renege on the contract.

Or execs will learn from this and insist on higher pay/shares every month rather than take the risk. They will have less skin in the game and will be less aligned with shareholders.

Sad result, Elon's all-or-nothing deal was having an effect in aligning execs with shareholders' interests. back to Mary Barra/Peter Rawlinson style pay awards.

 

[Rotte]

Elon has got grief for being optimistic. He might have been trained by people's previous reactions to be more circumspect/cautious.

I think this bloke got some grief as well



And I don't approve of all of Winston S. Churchill's utterances or beliefs either. Unconventional (yet effective) man though.

You can trace the history of the world through him and a handful of his contemporaries. I suspect Elon will occupy a similar place in history and culture.

Elon Musk is probably more similar to William Schockley if I was to compare him to anyone. It is eerie the number of similarities.

 

[xhawk101]

Question regarding the RSVP for Thursday's shareholder meeting. I have an invite but waiting for confirmation. Just wondering if anyone has gotten the electronic ticket confirmation yet? My plus 1 is already spoken for, sorry.

 

[UkNorthampton]

Just wondering how in the hell this post hasn’t been removed yet for political reasons or other…? A couple weeks ago I had a post with a combination of 53 likes and loves, and that was recommended by @unk45 as a post of particular merit- that was quickly removed for ‘political reasons’ simply because a portion of my post discussed that Elon was on X to share information of an Independent candidate - instead of Elon just casting support for the Far Right’ as a recently-acquired TMC troll claimed. To not immediately remove posts like this one from @ggies07 seems to suggest some bias IMO. Otherwise let’s keep open for discussion the ideas that Elon isn’t ‘Far Right’, and let’s discuss how Elon might have some anger still for policies that were argued in an effort to shut down the Fremont factory such as the 6’ social distancing ‘rule’ that was recently revealed by its own author while under oath to not be based on anything - it just sort of appeared.

Censorship is a slippery slope - even when used with the best intentions, as it can ultimately prove to be just as hurtful in the end. An example of that might be all the significant TMC contributors in the past who can no longer can be found here, while Trolls and anger seem to rule the day now instead.

On other parts of TMC, I have to be very careful how I post facts that go against the Elon-hate & misinformation.

Search any news aggregator or search engine & the debunked lies are almost overwhelming.

Quentin Wilson, Fully Charged and others have Stop Burning Stuff Myth-Busting - Fully Charged Show to fight EV FUD. Unfortunately, however much I love Fully Charged and what RL has done, even he/they repeat errant anti-Elon nonsense.

Ironically we need "Stop Burning Elon" to address misinformation or outright lies.

There will still be many who genuinely have different views, but there should be a way to address them on TMC at least.

 

[ggies07]

I was initially agreeing with @ggies07 post until I read yours - I think we have to differentiate between two points

1. Is it fair from priniciples if Elon would not get his pay package due to people voting against it now because they despise his politics?
2. Is it likely that some people will do so and that might jeopardize it passing?

For me the answer to 1 is no (and that was your point, too) but 2 is yes. So it is reasonable if someone says 2 will happen and that what I took @ggies to mean, but in hindsight that post was not clear between the two.

I haven't responded to a lot of people replying to me, as I didn't want to create a lot back and forth posting on this topic in this thread, I was simply posting what Elon has spread.

I did say a few weeks ago that I had voted for his package...I guess I should have put it in my signature. haha.

And yes, my whole point was that from a broad view, he might not want to post such harsh things since his behavior over the past 2 years is on trial.

 

[UkNorthampton]

Elon Musk is probably more similar to William Schockley if I was to compare him to anyone. It is eerie the number of similarities.

Effect on technology/industry/silicon valley - yes. Other matters no.

 

[The Accountant]

I am pretty sure a post by @The Accountant stating his similar frustrations may have been removed yesterday. Since nothing in his post was political or discussing Twitter, etc., I am hopeful he simply decided to delete it instead of the post being deleted by Mods. That guy has been incredibly insightful, informative, and helpful over the years, and I am sincerely grateful for his unselfish efforts. I sure hope to see him back here soon. Thanks @The Accountant !!!

I misread a post yesterday and replied rashly; after I re-read the post I deleted my reply.

 

[The Accountant]

I was simply posting what Elon has spread.

Ahh - you did more than that. You made it political by referring to MAGA.

 

[ggies07]

Ahh - you did more than that. You made it political by referring to MAGA.

Yes. Hating on Fauci is a MAGA trait.

Anyway...no need to post anymore about this.

 

[EVMeister]

Yes. Hating on Fauci is a MAGA trait.

And loving him is a woke trait.

See - it's best to just avoid any political slants in posts here, where possible.