Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[davecolene0606]

Trump has collected an extra $40B in tariffs and proposed an extra $20B in farm subsidies to make farmers whole from loss of profits in trade war, in addition to the $1B that has already been paid out.

Yup the gov has collected 40billion from US COMPANIES at Trumps behest and can transfer this to US farmers as well as reduce the staggering deficit impact that the latest “Tax plan” has given us.

So, subsidies to artificially cover the damage inflicted by Trumps brilliance.

He sure likes calling folks stupid to their faces...

Sad... and dangerously close to political content

Fire Away!

 

[Zaxxon]

The Raven has landed.

 

[RobStark]

Yup the gov has collected 40billion from US COMPANIES at Trumps behest and can transfer this to US farmers as well as reduce the staggering deficit impact that the latest “Tax plan” has given us.

So, subsidies to artificially cover the damage inflicted by Trumps brilliance.

He sure likes calling folks stupid to their faces...

Sad... and dangerously close to political content

Fire Away!

Tariffs are collected from US companies buying Chinese goods, incentivizing them to buy non Chinese goods. Incentivizing moving of production outside of China.

I know you want to the US to keep taking in the rear from Chinese mercantilist policies,including intellectual property theft leading to domination of 21st century industries.

Wars have cost. Won, they also have benefits.

 

[Unpilot]

DO these American company's pass cost's to consumers?

 

[RobStark]

DO these American company's pass cost's to consumers?

I think you know the answer to that.

They do to the extent there isn't sufficient competition.

If you can buy an identical widget from Taiwan,South Korea, or Vietnam consumers will switch.

To the extent they can not switch and want/need product they will be willing to pay more for it.

Over time market will fill voids.

 

[madodel]

Yup the gov has collected 40billion from US COMPANIES at Trumps behest and can transfer this to US farmers as well as reduce the staggering deficit impact that the latest “Tax plan” has given us.

So, subsidies to artificially cover the damage inflicted by Trumps brilliance.

He sure likes calling folks stupid to their faces...

Sad... and dangerously close to political content

Fire Away!

And those farmers markets have been decimated, so where is the $40 billion going to come from next year, and the year after, and so forth? Tesla and other American companies are also collateral damage, but who is going to make them whole from this stupid trade war?

 

[davecolene0606]

Tariffs are collected from US companies buying Chinese goods, incentivizing them to buy non Chinese goods. Incentivizing moving of production outside of China.

I know you want to the US to keep taking in the rear from Chinese mercantilist policies,including intellectual property theft leading to domination of 21st century industries.

Wars have cost. Won, they also have benefits.

So you think these “tariffs” are gonna move production back to the US? How long do you think this will take?

US consumers demand cheap and could care less how or where they get it. US companies moved their production to China for cheap labor.

Violation of international law on IP needs to be prosecuted under current law that needs to be strengthened.

Self inflicted injury is not a solution, level playing fields are.

Fire Away!

 

[larmor]

Next US oil war is brewing in the Middle East. Wonder how that will affect the oil price. Hopefully oil will hit 100 bucks a barrel and gas will be 3 bucks a litre. . .

I wouldn’t be surprised if there is another oil war in Venezuela brewing. I’m sure they will need some “liberating” soon.

Just sayin.

The market has all ready priced in super high per gallon gas prices and elevated price per barrel for TSLA...

 

[Artful Dodger]

OT

Tonight's Starlink launch is scrubbed due to high altitude winds. Next launch window is tomorrow at 22:30 EDT (02:30 UTC).

 

[Unpilot]

I think you know the answer to that.

They do to the extent there isn't sufficient competition.

If you can buy an identical widget from Taiwan,South Korea, or Vietnam consumers will switch.

To the extent they can not switch and want/need product they will be willing to pay more for it.

Over time market will fill voids.

Over time...yes...how much time and at what cost.
It is strange to watch this new tax play out like paying farmers for the...um "trouble" they are having with these "easy to win tariffs"

https://www.brookings.edu/research/...card-how-the-us-compares-to-18-other-nations/

It might take a while before the "over time" play's out.

 

[neroden]

What are you saying?

I'm trying to figure out what the hell DaveT was saying, but he never came back to clarify.

He claimed that demand for Model S and X was weak outside of the core markets of North America, China, and Europe, which seemed like a bizarre statement given that it isn't really sold outside those markets. I guess it's sold in Australia and New Zealand -- did he mean that sales there were weak? I just don't understand what he was trying to say.

 

[neroden]

I think you know the answer to that.

They do to the extent there isn't sufficient competition.

If you can buy an identical widget from Taiwan,South Korea, or Vietnam consumers will switch.

To the extent they can not switch and want/need product they will be willing to pay more for it.

This is why I've been calling Trump's tariffs "idiot tariffs". He's been putting tariffs on products where China is essentially the monopoly producer.

You can't make manufacturing for a specific industry start up in a new country just with tariffs; doesn't work. US has tried it before. You can shift demand from one country which manufactures widget A to another country which manufactures widget A with tariffs, but if widget A is basically sole-sourced from China, the tariffs just act as a tax on US manufacturers, nothing more.

There is a smart way to do tariffs. It requires actually understanding the global supply chain and where factories exist. Instead, we now have idiot tariffs from a President who has no idea where anything is manufactured.

 

[MarcusMaximus]

This is why I've been calling Trump's tariffs "idiot tariffs". He's been putting tariffs on products where China is essentially the monopoly producer.

You can't make manufacturing for a specific industry start up in a new country just with tariffs; doesn't work. US has tried it before. You can shift demand from one country which manufactures widget A to another country which manufactures widget A with tariffs, but if widget A is basically sole-sourced from China, the tariffs just act as a tax on US manufacturers, nothing more.

There is a smart way to do tariffs. It requires actually understanding the global supply chain and where factories exist. Instead, we now have idiot tariffs from a President who has no idea where anything is manufactured.

Well, on the bright side, these “idiot tariffs” seem to be what spurred Tesla to have to raise their prices by $400, which the market seemed to take as evidence of high demand. Yay, unintended consequences!

 

[Buckminster]

Saw this in my news feed. Supercharger cabinets now being build in Buffalo.

Tesla says solar factory will now make EV chargers and other products - Reuters

And a link to a local piece on same. Buffalo News generally leans anti-Tesla.

Tesla is adding new products in Buffalo as its solar business slumps

Edit: The Buffalo News piece is actually pretty informative.

Elon is only interested in the extraordinary. That means the roof - #game-changer. These things take time unfortunately.

FFS, take the battery tech talk to your own thread.

I posted some of them here:
Tesla and Maxwell Technologies?
The power of these specific threads is not realised. This one for example has 3000 views but only 13 replies. By posting in the specific threads, you may not get "likes" or replies - no instant gratification. However, they are a much better vehicle for educating a Tesla hungry audience than this thread. Education = increased SP + a better world.

The Raven has landed.

Does this mean homologation is complete?

 

[MarcusMaximus]

So, um, 36 minutes until Maxwell expiration... any indication what’s going on?

 

[MartinAustin]

Does this mean homologation is complete?

Well if a guy is sitting in his new car posting pictures he just took... yes. (and... phew!)

 

[jhm]

"What if Tesla could raise debt financing platforms like Yieldstreet from retail consumers or Tesla enthusiasts who love them?"
Tesla Savings Bonds. Previously I thought this might seem like an act of desperation that could be used against Tesla. Now I think they might as well do it.

SolarCity used to do this.

What I'd like to see Tesla offer is something like a time deposit where the interest say 4% is redeemable in Tesla services and products, not dollars. So basically if you are saving for your next Tesla car in a year or two, you can save for that, and there would be a provision for early withdrawal to pay for a major purchase. Or you simply want to offset charging fees at Superchargers you could deposit few $1000 and the interest would apply to that.

I suspect that Tesla could work with a bank to manage these accounts. Tesla could borrow against the deposits at very low cost. The could protect Tesla against the liquidity risk of these deposit while allowing investor to get FDIC insured accounts.

 

[Carl Raymond]

I'm trying to figure out what the hell DaveT was saying, but he never came back to clarify.

He claimed that demand for Model S and X was weak outside of the core markets of North America, China, and Europe, which seemed like a bizarre statement given that it isn't really sold outside those markets. I guess it's sold in Australia and New Zealand -- did he mean that sales there were weak? I just don't understand what he was trying to say.

DaveT is wrong. We know that BMW sales are hit hard in countries where Tesla has opened up. We know that BMW is not yet bankrupt, because their cars are still selling well in numerous other markets. Wherever there are people who can afford and desire BMWs there are people who can afford and (many) would prefer a Tesla.

Therefore, the global market is much much bigger than the market currently reachable by Tesla.

 

[Buckminster]

OT

Tonight's Starlink launch is scrubbed due to high altitude winds. Next launch window is tomorrow at 22:30 EDT (02:30 UTC).

Elon can't help himself on Twitter. He stated 6 more launches of 60

for initial activation, 12 for significant coverage.

Suggests at least that when it launches tomorrow, he thinks all 60 will deploy without failure. Will be quite something. It may not be enormously challenging for SpaceX but 60 satellites is just wow. The machine gun of satellite deployments.

 

[Zhelko Dimic]

DaveT is wrong. We know that BMW sales are hit hard in countries where Tesla has opened up. We know that BMW is not yet bankrupt, because their cars are still selling well in numerous other markets. Wherever there are people who can afford and desire BMWs there are people who can afford and (many) would prefer a Tesla.

Therefore, the global market is much much bigger than the market currently reachable by Tesla.

If you look at links below and do some basic math, you'll figure out that MB sells 85% in Europe, China and NA (NAFTA). BMW does 88% in those same countries.
I don't know if you consider 15% or 12% significant (you said market is much bigger?), but in my book what's left qualifies as a long tail, and Tesla is already present in best markets.
This is not surprising; outside of NAFTA, Europe and China, the rest of the world are either small markets, or they buy less cars and cheaper cars, or have other impediments (like Japan), so luxury and near luxury cars are much smaller percentage of overall sales. I'll stop now on this subject...

references:
2018 Global: Mercedes-Benz Worldwide Sales - Car Sales Statistics
2018 Global: BMW, Mini & Rolls Royce Worldwide Sales - Car Sales Statistics