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I think a Model 3 SR+ can achieve <200wh/mi if they tone it down and make it as slow as a Prius. The fact that there are zero 5 second cars that can achieve 52 mpg.
There would likely be some efficiency gains from moving to 195 section width tires and narrower wheels, but reducing motor performance wouldn't really help efficiency, as the EPA test cycle doesn't use the performance, and you may even reduce regen capability by doing so. The main contributor to the Model 3's energy consumption is aerodynamics, and making those better would not be easy at all (it's similar frontal area to the Prius, and significantly lower drag coefficient already).

And this all goes back to my point many pages ago, about how the Model 3 gets cross-shopped in a lot of different ways, because it's a car that appeals to multiple groups.
 
Minor correction I highly doubt there's any coal fired plant in So Cal area.

I had to look before I posted, I wasn't sure if there was one left either, but a SD Tribune article as of last year:

In-state coal-fired generation in both 2015 and 2016, according to the California Energy Commission, made up just 0.2 percent of the state’s electric load. Only one coal-fired plant remains in operation in California — the 63-megawatt Argus Cogen plant in the town of Trona in San Bernardino County.

Probably get some coal generation from nearby Arizona, but I doubt it's much since it can't even compete with NatGas on price.
 
Tales of the Rideshare Monkey Vol.2

So, a little over a month back I gave some impressions of my experiences driving Uber/Lyft with my Model 3 since last July. Now, with a slightly snappier title, I figure I'd continue giving some of my impressions from out in the field since while it is anecdotal, for the most part it does give some (hopefully) good information about what I'm encountering over hundreds of interactions.

I'd like to focus specifically on perceptions of Tesla as a company and its products as it tends to be seen by different generations. This post was largely inspired by two different interactions, one just the other day and one several weeks ago. The more recent one was a high school senior who had never been in a Tesla before and was quite excited (this is pretty normal, even in N. Cal where they rival fleas on a stray dog now) to get to ride in one. With no prompting on my part, she started telling me that Teslas are the "gotta have it" car of their generation. Actually experiencing the car a little seemed to do nothing to dim that desire.

The second is an older gentleman who came dangerously close to being the first person I've ever kicked out of my car on a ride. You can disagree with me. You can even say I'm full of bullshit, but if you do that in my house or my car you're probably going to be invited to depart and take your opinions with you. In his case it was over whether my power provider, Marin Clean Energy, truly was supplying 100% renewable power as the rate plan indicates but rather that it was largely supplied by coal. There being only one coal fired plant left way down in Southern California (for the moment, I looked) I politely disagreed but seeing the futility said I wasn't going to argue about it. I'm not naive enough to think every watt of power I use comes from a windmill or solar cell, but I don't gripe at my bank for not giving me the same bills out of the ATM I put in the month before, either. Fortunately this type of person is a slim minority, but I have seen other instances of this "arrogant ignorance" as I call it and I don't much care for it. Certainty by and large seems to be the province of the pridefully foolish, and this isn't exclusive to any certain group.

As in my previous post, I see to a limited but troubling degree that the FUD is working, to a point. Elon is crazy, Tesla is nearly bankwupt, the cars are full of problems, how often do you have to replace the battery, etc. are still all reoccurring themes. I've altered my response, making it shorter and hopefully more effective than just spewing facts back at them moving forward: How is a company that is disrupting or at odds with big oil, big auto, dealerships, energy companies, Wall street, the Russian space program (Elon), and not advertising going to get anything close to a fair and honest portrayal in our media? I leave them with a big grain of salt, distilled out of a solution of critical thinking, that I hope they'll make a little use of moving forward.

On a completely different topic, I've read others make the comment and completely agree that it would be a significantly advantageous move to have the Tesla Network be available prior to FSD and let people who are interested take part. There is no doubt it would speed adoption because people are going to want to have multiple trips in an Autopilot equipped car with a human in the driver's seat (it's easy to forget how surreal this is when you live with it every day) before they'll jump into a TeslaNetwork robotaxi with the driver's seat vacant. Going even a step further and expanding the Tesla app to have sections for car management, ride requests, and ordering new vehicles would seem to have all sorts of business advantages! (I'm considering bringing this up at the investors meeting on Tuesday, but don't know if I'll be able to work up the courage.)






Right now, only customers with linked Tesla products can log into the Tesla app, which I understand, because just like Spotify integration, expanding the app's functions is not a priority.

Someday, the Tesla mobile app should really include Tesla design studio and Tesla merch store.

Also, the merch shop is still not available in many regions. Hello, Tesla China?
 
The problem is that in some parts of the country (not many, and ones with messed up utilities at that), electricity is higher than monthly gasoline cost for an efficient vehicle (which the people cross-shopping on cost are probably comparing to). Which would make a battery lease even more expensive...

Here in Ohio, for what it's worth... if you cross-shop against a Prius...

A Model 3 SR+ is 254 Wh/mi, I pay ~$0.13/kWh (and I could pay less if I weren't on a 100% renewable plan), so it'd be 3.3 cents per mile in a SR+.

A Prius gets ~52 MPG, gas was $2.50/gal today, so it'd be 4.8 cents per mile in a Prius.

At 1000 miles per month, that would only support a $15/mo battery lease.

Sounds more like a problem where gas is subvented heavily.. out here gas is 1,7€/litre so that's like 6,3€/us gallon.. makes EV:s attractive even at 0,15€/kWh.
Really hard to understand why people gas here buycars.
 
I had to look before I posted, I wasn't sure if there was one left either, but a SD Tribune article as of last year:

In-state coal-fired generation in both 2015 and 2016, according to the California Energy Commission, made up just 0.2 percent of the state’s electric load. Only one coal-fired plant remains in operation in California — the 63-megawatt Argus Cogen plant in the town of Trona in San Bernardino County.

Probably get some coal generation from nearby Arizona, but I doubt it's much since it can't even compete with NatGas on price.

California is getting some coal power from other states (for now). The Los Angeles Department of Water and Power operates the 1,900 MW coal-fired Intermountain Power Plant in Delta, Utah, for example.
 
Right now, only customers with linked Tesla products can log into the Tesla app, which I understand, because just like Spotify integration, expanding the app's functions is not a priority.

Someday, the Tesla mobile app should really include Tesla design studio and Tesla merch store.

Also, the merch shop is still not available in many regions. Hello, Tesla China?

I like the idea of having the merch store in there too, hadn't thought about that.

Obviously they wouldn't need to have a rideshare component until they're ready to launch, but the car/merch ordering component seems like it wouldn't be too hard to add! People would visit it more often resulting in increased sales, too.
 
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Reactions: Artful Dodger
Did you see the spin Pompeo made? Gotta say that it’s one way to make lemonade out of lemons.

“Steady reductions in sea ice are opening new naval passageways and new opportunities for trade,” Pompeo said. New routes, where the nuisance of sea ice has conveniently disappeared, could “become the 21st century’s Suez and Panama canals.”
ship's of fools anyone?
Key Issues: U.S. Arctic Interests
 
Tales of the Rideshare Monkey Vol.2

So, a little over a month back I gave some impressions of my experiences driving Uber/Lyft with my Model 3 since last July. Now, with a slightly snappier title, I figure I'd continue giving some of my impressions from out in the field since while it is anecdotal, for the most part it does give some (hopefully) good information about what I'm encountering over hundreds of interactions.

I'd like to focus specifically on perceptions of Tesla as a company and its products as it tends to be seen by different generations. This post was largely inspired by two different interactions, one just the other day and one several weeks ago. The more recent one was a high school senior who had never been in a Tesla before and was quite excited (this is pretty normal, even in N. Cal where they rival fleas on a stray dog now) to get to ride in one. With no prompting on my part, she started telling me that Teslas are the "gotta have it" car of their generation. Actually experiencing the car a little seemed to do nothing to dim that desire.

The second is an older gentleman who came dangerously close to being the first person I've ever kicked out of my car on a ride. You can disagree with me. You can even say I'm full of bullshit, but if you do that in my house or my car you're probably going to be invited to depart and take your opinions with you. In his case it was over whether my power provider, Marin Clean Energy, truly was supplying 100% renewable power as the rate plan indicates but rather that it was largely supplied by coal. There being only one coal fired plant left way down in Southern California (for the moment, I looked) I politely disagreed but seeing the futility said I wasn't going to argue about it. I'm not naive enough to think every watt of power I use comes from a windmill or solar cell, but I don't gripe at my bank for not giving me the same bills out of the ATM I put in the month before, either. Fortunately this type of person is a slim minority, but I have seen other instances of this "arrogant ignorance" as I call it and I don't much care for it. Certainty by and large seems to be the province of the pridefully foolish, and this isn't exclusive to any certain group.

As in my previous post, I see to a limited but troubling degree that the FUD is working, to a point. Elon is crazy, Tesla is nearly bankwupt, the cars are full of problems, how often do you have to replace the battery, etc. are still all reoccurring themes. I've altered my response, making it shorter and hopefully more effective than just spewing facts back at them moving forward: How is a company that is disrupting or at odds with big oil, big auto, dealerships, energy companies, Wall street, the Russian space program (Elon), and not advertising going to get anything close to a fair and honest portrayal in our media? I leave them with a big grain of salt, distilled out of a solution of critical thinking, that I hope they'll make a little use of moving forward.

On a completely different topic, I've read others make the comment and completely agree that it would be a significantly advantageous move to have the Tesla Network be available prior to FSD and let people who are interested take part. There is no doubt it would speed adoption because people are going to want to have multiple trips in an Autopilot equipped car with a human in the driver's seat (it's easy to forget how surreal this is when you live with it every day) before they'll jump into a TeslaNetwork robotaxi with the driver's seat vacant. Going even a step further and expanding the Tesla app to have sections for car management, ride requests, and ordering new vehicles would seem to have all sorts of business advantages! (I'm considering bringing this up at the investors meeting on Tuesday, but don't know if I'll be able to work up the courage.)

It would be nice to have a monthly post on CleanTechnica about your experience ;-) cc @ZachShahan
 
I think a Model 3 SR+ can achieve <200wh/mi if they tone it down and make it as slow as a Prius. The fact that there are zero 5 second cars that can achieve 52 mpg.

I wouldn't have bought either of our Model 3's if they were as slow as a Prius. What makes the Model 3 more compelling than an economy car is the way it drives. The low cost of operation is a bonus that you don't get with other premium cars. In other words, everyone who is well suited to a Prius already has one and a lot of them are switching to the Model 3.

@bhtooefr , Please stop comparing the Model 3 to a Prius. The only thing the two have in common is they are both at the top of their respective classes in terms of efficiency. But one of them is very desirable (and about twice as efficient) and the other is losing its very reason for existing in the first place. Prius drivers are switching to the Model 3 in droves.
 
And what about methane emissions particularly as it melts in permafrost and the oceans?

This is a huge threat to humanity. The only rational thing to do is to bring our carbon emissions down to zero as quickly as humanly possible and hope the planet remains somewhat hospitable. Because it will be a lot easier to terraform earth into a semblance of its former self than it will be to terraform Mars into a hospitable place.

I disagree with those who say it's too late and there is nothing else we can do so we might as well throw our hands up in despair and give up while we roll coal and generally laugh and party to the end. It's more fun and more rewarding to give it our best shot.
 
Re Leaf/Prius vs M3...
There's maybe something that US people don't really get. Especially in Europe, sedans are viewed as luxury cars.
Now, there is a *huge* market for luxury cars, and millions of people like to signal their status with a nice looking car...
but other millions are not used to it. I know it's counterintuitive, but for me the M3 is a bit *too much*.
I'd love to have one simply because *it's the best EV car out there*: best range, best battery, best security, best tecnology, OTA, upgradable, etc.
I'm a cheap guy, and I don't care about 0-60 in 3 seconds or amazing interiors. I just want a good car that doesn't pollute for a price I can afford. Tesla has the best product (SR+), at the moment.
For me it's all about price, the Model 3 could be uglier and I wouldn't care. I could even like it more if it was less "look-at-me!!!1!" ;-)

PS: full disclosure: I drive and love one of the ugliest car ever produced.
 
Talking to my delivery specialist today, it sounds like demand and deliveries are very strong in the US. (Tesla did mess up my order, and my VIN matching pretty badly. I went to the store to see what they can do since I was supposed to get a P100DL delivered and paid for it, only to find that the VIN had the wrong interior. We talked about getting a "loaner" vehicle until a car arrived for me, but one of the challenges for that plan is that they don't have vehicles on the lot). He said they get loaded on the trucks in California, and by the time they get to Utah, they are all sold. Salt Lake City is the only store for hundreds of miles, but I can tell you that the number of cars being delivered through that location every week is incredible.

P.S. - If there is interest in my story, I can tell you that they had recently received a test drive vehicle with my specifications. It only has 22 miles and based on the energy graph was driven 3 times. They are going to match the car to me and I can pick it up tomorrow. It doesn't seem worth waiting another week or two to get a car that was driven 3 fewer times....
Ask for free super charging at least.. since it’s an inventory vehicle. Maybe some discount too. As a shareholder, I can bear with a little more quarterly loss :)
 
@bhtooefr , Please stop comparing the Model 3 to a Prius. The only thing the two have in common is they are both at the top of their respective classes in terms of efficiency. But one of them is very desirable (and about twice as efficient) and the other is losing its very reason for existing in the first place. Prius drivers are switching to the Model 3 in droves.

I know full well that the Model 3 ain't a Prius, and that there's significant compelling reasons to buy a Model 3 over one.

Really, in this instance, I'm doing the comparison this way to demonstrate how removing the battery and its profit from the car's MSRP, and then setting a battery lease to equal gasoline, is such a bad idea... because the cost-sensitive buyer is buying something towards the upper-end of ICE efficiency anyway.

And if you set the battery lease to equal, say, a BMW 330i's fuel consumption, you'll alienate the cost-sensitive buyers that you're trying to get, as they'll compare to more efficient hybrids and significantly downmarket stuff like Mitsubishi Mirages on efficiency, and nope out of it.
 
Re Leaf/Prius vs M3...
There's maybe something that US people don't really get. Especially in Europe, sedans are viewed as luxury cars.
Now, there is a *huge* market for luxury cars, and millions of people like to signal their status with a nice looking car...
but other millions are not used to it. I know it's counterintuitive, but for me the M3 is a bit *too much*.
I'd love to have one simply because *it's the best EV car out there*: best range, best battery, best security, best tecnology, OTA, upgradable, etc.
I'm a cheap guy, and I don't care about 0-60 in 3 seconds or amazing interiors. I just want a good car that doesn't pollute for a price I can afford. Tesla has the best product (SR+), at the moment.
For me it's all about price, the Model 3 could be uglier and I wouldn't care. I could even like it more if it was less "look-at-me!!!1!" ;-)

PS: full disclosure: I drive and love one of the ugliest car ever produced.

Tesla isn't ready to outcompete Toyota Corolla or VW Polo.

It can't make a profitable EV for $20k.

Therefore, it has to justify the price of $40k. With entry luxury sedan form factor, 0-60mph/100kph etc.

Appealing to buyers better angles and tell them to pay more to save the planet from climate catastrophe hasn't worked and will not work.
 
Over the past week - I pulled all of my accounts with Morgan Stanley. The wealth manager who has been enjoying the nice asset management fee was initially heart broken then become frustrated at Adam Jonas when I told him the reason I left was 100% attributed to the nonsense and games his colleague plays with shareholders of Tesla. Hit em where it counts.

My wealth manager always advised against buying TSLA which we ignored. He wanted us to sell when it was $90 but instead we kept buying more and as a result our TSLA portion grew to over 50%. Then he said our account was not enough diversified and if we didn’t sell some he could no longer keep us as a client. It was laughable, so we moved to E*Trade. But we still get the reports on TSLA.
 
While it's it's historically complex and complicated, it is not confusing to the accounting software: Tesla is tracking every VIN's production details, material costs, labor overhead and the order details, very likely including the price of every option paid.

I suspect Tesla's database is also tracking which version of EAP/FSD each customer bought, and defines deliverables.

When a milestone is met it's basically a database query to calculate the amount of deferred revenue that will be recognized.

The costs of EAP/FSD development go into R&D and SG&A, so they are already paid and accounted for - so FSD deferred revenue can be recognized with near 100% margin, so it increases GAAP income directly.
Aaaaand on the other side of the equation, their marketing team should know incredibly precise, detailed demographics on who purchases each specific model, option, how profitable each item is, and exactly where and how to cheaply target more of the most desirable customers without throwing million$ out the window on the kind of "advertising" the old folks on this forum keep blabbering about.
 
Party mode secured thanks to @greentheonly:

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