Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Runarbt]

A little puzzle that even took me a moment to figure out even I actually knew what I was looking at:

View attachment 425312

Ah. Nice one. I got the answer, after some hard thinking. ;-)

 

[Johnii__82]

Here's the allegations in the Tesla vs. Martin Tripp court case (in Document #1):

Docket for Tesla, Inc. v. Tripp, 3:18-cv-00296-LRH-CBC - CourtListener.com

"Tesla has only begun to understand the full scope of Tripp’s illegal activity, but he has thus far admitted to writing software that hacked Tesla’s manufacturing operating system (“MOS”) and to transferring several gigabytes of Tesla data to outside entities. This includes dozens of confidential photographs and a video of Tesla’s manufacturing systems. "

"The improper means used by Tripp to acquire and disclose Tesla’s trade secrets include:

a. Breaching specific provisions of the Proprietary Information Agreement;
b. Writing software to hack Tesla’s MOS;
c. Exfiltrating confidential and proprietary data from Tesla’s MOS for the purpose of sharing the data with persons outside the company;
d. Sending third parties a confidential code or “query”;
e. Taking and sharing with third parties dozens of photographs of Tesla’s manufacturing systems;
f. Taking and sharing with third parties a video of Tesla’s manufacturing systems; and
g. Attempting to conceal electronic evidence of his misappropriation and disclosure of trade secrets."

[...]
​

If those allegations are true (they might not be), the pattern is at minimum industrial espionage, and sabotage for profits isn't an idea far removed, especially considering his TSLAQ affiliations.

I didn't find the paint shop connection though, and since Tripp was employed at GF1, it would be difficult but not impossible to imagine him understanding the paint shop code and procedures to launch successful sabotage. Note that there was a very interesting increase in paint quality last summer, and paint sabotage would be a particularly nasty variant as it requires a very expensive recall. So I don't exclude the possibility.

Edit: found the paint shop sabotage allegation, it's in a NYT article quoted by @EinSV:

TSLA Market Action: 2018 Investor Roundtable

"At 6:30 a.m. on Aug. 18, three robots in the paint shop at the Tesla factory in Fremont, Calif., started malfunctioning. The incident forced a production halt on the Model 3, the key to the company’s future.

Made aware of the stoppage, Mr. Musk went to the factory and worked into the night. The problem was resolved, but Tesla reached a troubling conclusion: The robots had been infected with malware in an act of industrial sabotage. And though they could not prove it, executives suspected they knew the culprit: a rogue employee, working at the behest of short-sellers."​

So I suspect the sabotage (or botched malware attack) did happen, and they suspected Tripp but couldn't link it to him.

Anyway, I think the sabotage angle was, fortunately, just a minor factor - most of the big delays in the Model 3 ramp-up were self-inflicted by Tesla.

Thank you for your detailed analysis Fact Checking. b. Writing software to hack Tesla’s MOS; Have you found any Github repositories or coding example what MR Tripp has been publically telling that he is a coder or can write industrial robot code? What ever that is?

Is there any technical evidence in MR trip filing about these? I think not.

Have you been lately checking the news regarding the Tesla Model 3 paint peeling off in like 1300 miles. We have huge post on
--> Model 3 paint wearing off

Also we have started to gather people around the world to our Facebook group: Tesla Model 3 owners worldwide with paint issues

We owners are kind of furious because my paint + 20 others Tesla Model 3 paints looks like this after 1300-3000 miles: Tesla Model 3 after 1300 miles - Google Drive

Also we made Tesla Paint Issues wall on public consumer advocacy service called "NONONO".

Our global complaint is also there.

Consumer advocacy service

 

[MarcusMaximus]

Putting aside partisanship for one brief moment (as if...) what exactly do you think the folks going to Lucid think they can do there, that they could not do at Tesla?

Tesla's head of production is going to EV startup Lucid Motors - Electrek

People breaking away from large companies to create startups in niche areas is common, but people going from new companies that are just starting to have an impact to start another new company doing exactly the same thing, isn't.

Hard to say for any single given person. Off the wall guess: he figures Tesla has the production thing pretty well down and is moving on to another EV company to further get EV’s to take over the whole auto market.

 

[Green Pete]

He's going to regret that. I feel pretty confident that all these companies will go nowhere. The future cars are not just about EV. But also autonomy and software (carOS). Got to have all three (in spades), otherwise, you'll be a one hit wonder and fade into obscurity (read Lucid, Faraday Futures, Byton, etc.). The future players are likely among Tesla, Waymo, Apple and some of the legacy OEMs (plus whatever comes out of China-- Nio, BYD, etc.-- maybe).

I imagine he's got more equity than he'll ever be able to cash spend already. At this point he can gamble big on things like this and be a billionaire instead (I imagine the incentive package he's getting is nice) of a 100 millionaire and if he (Lucid) fails he's still likely going to have hundreds of millions in Tesla stock by 2040

 

[MarcusMaximus]

Here's the allegations in the Tesla vs. Martin Tripp court case (in Document #1):

Docket for Tesla, Inc. v. Tripp, 3:18-cv-00296-LRH-CBC - CourtListener.com

"Tesla has only begun to understand the full scope of Tripp’s illegal activity, but he has thus far admitted to writing software that hacked Tesla’s manufacturing operating system (“MOS”) and to transferring several gigabytes of Tesla data to outside entities. This includes dozens of confidential photographs and a video of Tesla’s manufacturing systems. "

"The improper means used by Tripp to acquire and disclose Tesla’s trade secrets include:

a. Breaching specific provisions of the Proprietary Information Agreement;
b. Writing software to hack Tesla’s MOS;
c. Exfiltrating confidential and proprietary data from Tesla’s MOS for the purpose of sharing the data with persons outside the company;
d. Sending third parties a confidential code or “query”;
e. Taking and sharing with third parties dozens of photographs of Tesla’s manufacturing systems;
f. Taking and sharing with third parties a video of Tesla’s manufacturing systems; and
g. Attempting to conceal electronic evidence of his misappropriation and disclosure of trade secrets."

[...]
​

If those allegations are true (they might not be), the pattern is at minimum industrial espionage, and sabotage for profits isn't an idea far removed, especially considering his TSLAQ affiliations.

I didn't find the paint shop connection though, and since Tripp was employed at GF1, it would be difficult but not impossible to imagine him understanding the paint shop code and procedures to launch successful sabotage. Note that there was a very interesting increase in paint quality last summer, and paint sabotage would be a particularly nasty variant as it requires a very expensive recall. So I don't exclude the possibility.

Edit: found the paint shop sabotage allegation, it's in a NYT article quoted by @EinSV:

TSLA Market Action: 2018 Investor Roundtable

"At 6:30 a.m. on Aug. 18, three robots in the paint shop at the Tesla factory in Fremont, Calif., started malfunctioning. The incident forced a production halt on the Model 3, the key to the company’s future.

Made aware of the stoppage, Mr. Musk went to the factory and worked into the night. The problem was resolved, but Tesla reached a troubling conclusion: The robots had been infected with malware in an act of industrial sabotage. And though they could not prove it, executives suspected they knew the culprit: a rogue employee, working at the behest of short-sellers."​

So I suspect the sabotage (or botched malware attack) did happen, and they suspected Tripp but couldn't link it to him.

Anyway, I think the sabotage angle was, fortunately, just a minor factor - most of the big delays in the Model 3 ramp-up were self-inflicted by Tesla.

That NY Times snippet, by the way, is the only two sentences I’ve found in any article describing that act of industrial sabotage. This for a company where a couple stacked boxes catching on fire in the parking lot made international headline news.

That’s my go-to example of the “if it bleeds it leads” excuse for negative Tesla coverage ringing false. It only leads if it bleeds and doesn’t make Musk seem possible not insane.

 

[CorneliusXX]

OT: My twitter id makes an appearance in one of the exhibits submitted by Tripp

Co-conspirator!

 

[kengchang]

Thank you for your detailed analysis Fact Checking. b. Writing software to hack Tesla’s MOS; Have you found any Github repositories or coding example what MR Tripp has been publically telling that he is a coder or can write industrial robot code? What ever that is?

Is there any technical evidence in MR trip filing about these? I think not.

 

[Johnii__82]

View attachment 425334

Thx. Do we have any solid info ( like crawled ) trough wayback machine about him ?I am meaning that if Tesla does not have anything written on the the court filing how can they accuse him ?

 

[kengchang]

Thx. Do we have any solid info ( like crawled ) trough wayback machine about him ?I am meaning that if Tesla does not have anything written on the the court filing how can they accuse him ?

Well, time for you to do some leg work!

 

[CorneliusXX]

You make some very good points on how the ramp can be much faster than last time.

Others have already pointed out the unknown unknowns that typically crop up on a huge project like this, such as a new supply chain being one of them, but I take exception to this one below:

I think it is exactly the opposite. Musk has repeatedly said they starved for cells as GF1 still not hit the full 35 GwH capacity. When asked about the slow rollout of PW, Musk clearly said they are 'cell constrained'.

So GF1 is not going to magically start producing batteries at a rate of another 1000 M3s / week by end of 2019. Moreover we know that Tesla is looking for new supplier for cells. And they need to be qualified and they may not ramp up at that pace so quickly either.

So there are other force-de-majour (or whatever the hell that is) events that can happen, that I put the probability of any customer car rolling out end of this year to be very low, and a methodical slow ramp up Q1/Q2.

They have room for another 10GWh with efficiency increases from the current production lines

 

[ggr]

Putting aside partisanship for one brief moment (as if...) what exactly do you think the folks going to Lucid think they can do there, that they could not do at Tesla?

Tesla's head of production is going to EV startup Lucid Motors - Electrek

People breaking away from large companies to create startups in niche areas is common, but people going from new companies that are just starting to have an impact to start another new company doing exactly the same thing, isn't.

They presumably get more money and more (but riskier) stock, and "ego-boo" from the jump in title. And they don't get worked as hard as Elon pushes. I could believe the attraction.

BTW, OT, has anyone pointed out that you misspelled your username? Woolloomooloo - Wikipedia

 

[Tslynk67]

What the hell happened to the markets today? Everything seems to have gone down, what's the reason for that?

 

[Wooloomooloo]

BTW, OT, has anyone pointed out that you misspelled your username? Woolloomooloo - Wikipedia

Yes it has come up a couple of times. Here's the story - when I was a kid, I used to really like Jean Michel Jarre (actually I still do...) and he has an album from 1984 called Zoolook. I used to go by the name Zoolook for ages on various forums, but one day it was taken and so I chose Wooloomooloo (a track from the same album) but with the typo. Ever since then, I've used that with the typo even after realizing my mistake. Usually it's pointed out by disgruntled Aussies who are put out I don't know how to spell a small suburb in Australia. Considering the word already has eight O's, you'd think a missing 'L' would be forgiven.

What's really funny is that on some forums that username is taken, meaning someone else made the same typo! and so I'll be Wooloomooloo2 (keeping the typo).

 

[ggr]

Thx. Do we have any solid info ( like crawled ) trough wayback machine about him ?I am meaning that if Tesla does not have anything written on the the court filing how can they accuse him ?

The court filings just state the complaint, the damages and the requested remedies. They don't have to present (or make public) all the evidence, just enough to establish that it's a real complaint and to have the court proceed to discovery.

 

[ggr]

Yes it has come up a couple of times. Here's the story - when I was a kid, I used to really like Jean Michel Jarre (actually I still do...) and he has an album from 1984 called Zoolook. I used to go by the name Zoolook for ages on various forums, but one day it was taken and so I chose Wooloomooloo (a track from the same album) but with the typo. Ever since then, I've used that with the typo even after realizing my mistake. Usually it's pointed out by disgruntled Aussies who are put out I don't know how to spell a small suburb in Australia. Considering the word already has eight O's, you'd think a missing 'L' would be forgiven.

What's really funny is that on some forums that username is taken, meaning someone else made the same typo! and so I'll be Wooloomooloo2 (keeping the typo).

Cute. However Woolloomooloo is some of the most valuable real estate in downtown Sydney... not outback at all.

 

[Doggydogworld]

People breaking away from large companies to create startups in niche areas is common, but people going from new companies that are just starting to have an impact to start another new company doing exactly the same thing, isn't.

I'm guessing you never worked in Silicon Valley....

I imagine he's got more equity than he'll ever be able to cash spend already. At this point he can gamble big on things like this and be a billionaire instead (I imagine the incentive package he's getting is nice) of a 100 millionaire and if he (Lucid) fails he's still likely going to have hundreds of millions in Tesla stock by 2040

He joined Tesla in late 2016. I can't imagine him getting that level of equity. I agree he'll get a much larger percentage stake in Lucid, though, and there's a lot to be said for diversification.

 

[Christine69420]

Some more stats from Norway in June - compared to June 2018:

48,4% (25.1% in 2018) were zero emission vehicles - 1 hydrogen, the rest electric.
22.2% (26.5% in 2018) were hybrids
16.0% (23.8% in 2018) had gas engines
13.5% (14.6% in 2018) had diesel engines

From Bilsalget i juni 2019 – Opplysningsrådet for veitrafikken

 

[Wooloomooloo]

I'm guessing you never worked in Silicon Valley....

No I haven't, but making cars isn't quite like anything else in the Valley.

I take your point though.

 

[capster]

What's everyone's plan for the annual 4th of July bear attack? We have a mid-morning dip strategy, think this year's Independence Day Dip deserves some Wednesday selling and Monday rebuying?

With the positive sentiment around production and deliveries, it's sure gonna be interesting.

Taking a road trip with my family in my Model 3 to go hiking in a National Park.

I’m long no margin with an 8+ year horizon on TSLA and have a good amount of shares, so I’m looking forward to a bright future and can relax this holiday.

Don’t think there will be a reprieve for the shorts this week: ‘Everyone knows’ about the holiday bear attacks now.

Not advice only my perspective.

 

[Wooloomooloo]

Cute. However Woolloomooloo is some of the most valuable real estate in downtown Sydney... not outback at all.

I had to check to be sure, but the original Album of JMJ actually spelled it "Wooloomooloo" which is where I remembered the spelling from. I've always assumed I was wrong because googling it comes up with Woolloomooloo in Sydney way above the Jarre song.

Oddly enough, while the digital copies online all say Wooloomooloo the iTunes "1985" version says Woolloomooloo, although I suspect that is a mistake. The 2015 version says "Wooloomooloo".