All I know is, IMHO, you picked a wonderful time to buy!
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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
Disagree. I wish I'd sold at $380.00
I've only seen a brief mention here, but the UK announced a new huge BIK tax incentive for EVs last week which I think has a good chance to take UK to Tesla's number 3 market going forward.
BIK tax rates are paid on company cars because the car is a "benefit in kind" which is essentially a supplement to salary.
This year UK BIK tax rates are at 16% to 37% of the sale price per year - with the the rate based on emissions. This rate is then multiplied by the employee's tax rate (20%, 40% or 50%) - I would guess the majority of company cars go to employees on the 40% tax rate.
So for example a car with CO2 emissions at 100-104g/km would pay 25%, for a 40% tax bracket and £30k car price, would pay 25%*40%*30 = £3k per year, or £9k over a 3 year lease ($11.3k).
From next tax year (April 2020) the EV BIK tax rate will be 0%, then 1% in 2021 and 2% in 2022. So compared to a 100h/km £30k ICE, this is equivalent to a c.$11k EV incentive over 3 years of ownership.
My read of the rules is that the new tax rate will apply to EVs even if they are on the road already today - So the amount of monthly tax will suddenly reduce in April 2020, but it should not cause companies to delay EV purchases today.
The UK also has a £3.5k ($4.4k) EV grant which i assume will also apply to the company cars (can anyone confirm this?) taking the total 3 year incentive to $15.4k.
Also, no BIK tax is paid on electricity charging costs provided by your employer.
The market for BIK company cars in UK is likely 350k-500k per year (compared to a total UK car market of 2,400k). This is similar in size to the entire car market in the Netherlands (450k) and significantly larger than the Norway car market (150k).
This is now a very significant incentive and it seems hard to justify purchasing a ICE car via the BIK system now there are EVs such as Model 3 available. This tax change will likely also encourage people to acquire cars via their companies rather than in person (an untaxed EV is now much better value than a pay rise or bonus) so should act to increase the overall UK company car market.
In addition to this, the UK also provides a grant up to 75% of home chargepoint installation costs, and has just announced all new homes will be required to have an EV chargepoint and that all non-residential buildings undergoing major renovation projects must introduce chargers to 20% of parking spaces.
Considering UK petrol prices are over double the US average, the 2.4 million annual UK car demand is starting to look very well positioned to transition to EVs. The main obstacle is FUD and lack of knowledge of the EV options available and TCOE advantage.
BIK tax rates are paid on company cars because the car is a "benefit in kind" which is essentially a supplement to salary.
This year UK BIK tax rates are at 16% to 37% of the sale price per year - with the the rate based on emissions. This rate is then multiplied by the employee's tax rate (20%, 40% or 50%) - I would guess the majority of company cars go to employees on the 40% tax rate.
So for example a car with CO2 emissions at 100-104g/km would pay 25%, for a 40% tax bracket and £30k car price, would pay 25%*40%*30 = £3k per year, or £9k over a 3 year lease ($11.3k).
From next tax year (April 2020) the EV BIK tax rate will be 0%, then 1% in 2021 and 2% in 2022. So compared to a 100h/km £30k ICE, this is equivalent to a c.$11k EV incentive over 3 years of ownership.
My read of the rules is that the new tax rate will apply to EVs even if they are on the road already today - So the amount of monthly tax will suddenly reduce in April 2020, but it should not cause companies to delay EV purchases today.
The UK also has a £3.5k ($4.4k) EV grant which i assume will also apply to the company cars (can anyone confirm this?) taking the total 3 year incentive to $15.4k.
Also, no BIK tax is paid on electricity charging costs provided by your employer.
The market for BIK company cars in UK is likely 350k-500k per year (compared to a total UK car market of 2,400k). This is similar in size to the entire car market in the Netherlands (450k) and significantly larger than the Norway car market (150k).
This is now a very significant incentive and it seems hard to justify purchasing a ICE car via the BIK system now there are EVs such as Model 3 available. This tax change will likely also encourage people to acquire cars via their companies rather than in person (an untaxed EV is now much better value than a pay rise or bonus) so should act to increase the overall UK company car market.
In addition to this, the UK also provides a grant up to 75% of home chargepoint installation costs, and has just announced all new homes will be required to have an EV chargepoint and that all non-residential buildings undergoing major renovation projects must introduce chargers to 20% of parking spaces.
Considering UK petrol prices are over double the US average, the 2.4 million annual UK car demand is starting to look very well positioned to transition to EVs. The main obstacle is FUD and lack of knowledge of the EV options available and TCOE advantage.
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StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
The trading side of me agrees.
The Tesla supporter side of me is okey with having ridden it down.
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
In hindsight, yes, better to sell high and buy back low. In practice, no one knows if it will keep going up or go back down. Even if it does go down after you sell it, you don't know when it will go up again. It could shoot past your sell point before you are able to buy it back. That's why "buy and hold" is a proven investment strategy.
And I keep remembering January 2019 when the future also looked rosy. And that was the result of two good quarters and this time there has been one (we think, ER still to come). We didn't know about the operational failures to come (Raven delay; Europe and China logistics; Panasonic's inability to ramp cell production) that led to a poor financial quarter. Hopefully 1Q will prove to be an aberration, fingers crossed.
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tinm
2020 Model S LR+ Owner
Speaking of Delphi (NYSE: DLPH), these are the things they want you to know they pioneered:
- Self-start vehicle ignitions.
- Electric starters.
- PVC insulated cables.
- Multi-wire connection systems.
- Catalytic converters.
- Direct-acting diesel fuel injection systems.
- CARB-approved, handheld evaporative emissions testers.
- Common rail systems for medium- and heavy-duty applications.
- Convertible, PC-based diagnostic tools with access to faster, more affordable on-board diagnostics, tech support and service information.
- Ammonia sensors for nitrogen oxide emission control.
- Intelligent driving
- Software and systems solutions
- Power electronics
- Combined inverter and DC/DC converter
- Viper Inverter Power Switch
Of course if you scroll down further you find out their current work also involves lots of legacy ICE stuff:
- Dynamic Skip Fire -- "just the right number of [ICE] cylinders to do the job"
- 48-volt mild hybrid
- 350 Bar GDi system for Low Particulate Emissions
- High-Performance Modular Ignition Coil Without Magnets
- High Accuracy Fuel Level Sensor
- F3 closed loop and DFI 21 [Fuel] Injectors
- Selective Catalyst Reduction - Removing harmful emissions
- Aftermarket Diesel Test Equipment
Tesla cars will probably move further away from that base model 3 price of US $35'000. if Musk carries through with his business plans of keeping most of his cars for use as RoboTaxis's. It's estimated one car can earn as much as $300'000 in the time frame of it's drivability usefulness. You can read the full article on the Electrek website.
Pacific Gas & Electric, our Northern California utility, is pushing backup power due to "elevated weather conditions" aka increased risk of wildfires (Pacific Gas and Electric Company)
This is generating interest in people for Powerwall. Below is a sample from our neighborhood e-mail list. I understand the sender's family has a strong interest in continuous power because of some medical equipment that someone in their household requires. However, I don't know that they have any particular interest in Tesla.
I raise this not to provoke discussion about storage per se, but to point out that it may prove, ah, improvident to dismiss or forget the storage side of the business. Demand drivers, including even promotions to the public, assuredly exist
Not advice.
This is generating interest in people for Powerwall. Below is a sample from our neighborhood e-mail list. I understand the sender's family has a strong interest in continuous power because of some medical equipment that someone in their household requires. However, I don't know that they have any particular interest in Tesla.
I raise this not to provoke discussion about storage per se, but to point out that it may prove, ah, improvident to dismiss or forget the storage side of the business. Demand drivers, including even promotions to the public, assuredly exist
Not advice.
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It looks like Fremont is going to be making a lot of cars with the steering wheel on the wrong side for a while. That combined with Canada’s generous incentives and you might see the delivery times in the us for base cars start to go up not down. Tesla will almost certainly not need to reduce prices.
and I've gone into stealth mode...
I'm choked up reading this, thanks. I'm French myself (from Canada). We're doing alright with this language seems.
I'm in Phoenix Arizona (hot today) where gas is about the cheapest at under $3 per gal (sorry, making you convert...). It's so cheap that people around me aren't dropping everything to get one, at least no one I know. Wish I could feel that "told you so." But they're selling somewhere at delivering 50 cars per day recently nearby. So ya, I think we did win because that initial wave last year keeps growing. I'll probably see all these folks get the SUV, it's family homes here.
I rode this stock all the way down, increasing my interest, and was full in at bottom. I wasn't concerned, just pissed I didn't get in here! A 10-20 yr hold sounds about right. 5X at least. Look at SpaceX stock for another Elon example of thinking long-term.
And hey, drive it like you mean it! Second set of tires now
...and here comes the hit piece!
Who was saying CNBC were being nice lately?
They don't get a link from me, but it's on their website.
Who was saying CNBC were being nice lately?
They don't get a link from me, but it's on their website.
JusRelax
Active Member
CNBC/Lora Kolodny at it again:
Tesla employees say they took shortcuts, worked through harsh conditions to meet Model 3 production goals
No need to fear the link; I used a 3rd-party website to archive the link so your click won't give CNBC clicks.
Tesla employees say they took shortcuts, worked through harsh conditions to meet Model 3 production goals
No need to fear the link; I used a 3rd-party website to archive the link so your click won't give CNBC clicks.
I am with you on this, Tesla is bet on Jockey ,I am very confident long term investors will be rewarded for holding through short term up and down, thanks to competition ,which is so out right dumb they don’t even know how to copy what Tesla doing or they are so caught up in media FUD and praying If some how EV transitions will fail and ICE business as usual.
"put all your eggs in one basket and watch that basket" Good advice from Andrew Carnegie. IMO.
BOBTHEJOCKEY
Member
Driving a cool fast car while saving the planet at the same time. If I had a tesla with autopilot I could FINALLY juggle while driving.I'm choked up reading this, thanks. I'm French myself (from Canada). We're doing alright with this language seems.
I'm in Phoenix Arizona (hot today) where gas is about the cheapest at under $3 per gal (sorry, making you convert...). It's so cheap that people around me aren't dropping everything to get one, at least no one I know. Wish I could feel that "told you so." But they're selling somewhere at delivering 50 cars per day recently nearby. So ya, I think we did win because that initial wave last year keeps growing. I'll probably see all these folks get the SUV, it's family homes here.
I rode this stock all the way down, increasing my interest, and was full in at bottom. I wasn't concerned, just pissed I didn't get in here! A 10-20 yr hold sounds about right. 5X at least. Look at SpaceX stock for another Elon example of thinking long-term.
And hey, drive it like you mean it! Second set of tires now
They say:
I hear:
Tesla shorties say they took haircuts, pushed out harsh fabrications to meet Model 3 defamation aims
I hear:
Tesla shorties say they took haircuts, pushed out harsh fabrications to meet Model 3 defamation aims
BOBTHEJOCKEY
Member
I read some books about investing and came away with this one thought. When you are sure BET THE FARM. To me betting on Tesla is like betting on the telephone when it was first invented.
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