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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

wipster

Gold Member
Nov 10, 2013
3,129
14,345
Kennewick, WA
I believe the next buying opportunity due to a stock drop will happen the first week of 2020 after the production and delivery stats come out. I think it will rise on the PD stats but then people will do some profit-taking in the new tax year with the next big rise coming after financial statement release at the end of January.

Definitely not advice...
 

sparcs

Active Member
Nov 8, 2018
1,180
6,954
USA
But, in the end, I think it is up to each investor how they feel about their investments. Their individual situation, their goals.

I think that's exactly it since we have all taken a different level of risk. Use of Margin and percentage of assets at risk make some even more affected by the volatility.

I took a lot less risk since my shares are paid with cash and I have only put in a certain amount of funds that I am willing to lose. It's easier for me to stay the course and see how these quarters develop.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rb48888 and humbaba
Aug 6, 2019
500
13,847
Connecticut, USA
That doesn't address the amount of FSD revenue that accrues each quarter from each quarter's sales. It's a moving target.

I also don't understand your usage of the word "accrue" in that sentence.

Accounting terminology can be a bit complicated especially since many terms are similar but not the same (expense, provision, reserve, accrual, deferral, etc.). This post if meant for non-finance members (finance members please skip)

To keep this post brief, I will cover only 2 of the terms that are very relevant to Tesla: Deferred Revenue and Reserve.
I will use the following example:
When Tesla sells an automobile for $57k ($50k base and $7k FSD) they have to defer the revenue on the FSD until earned and also record a reserve for warranty expenses (lets say $0.5k)

Here would be the entries:
FSD Deferral:
Debit Revenues $7,000 (reduces revenue on the income statement)
Credit Deferred Revenue $7,000 (a balance sheet account)

Once the FSD is earned, the entry above (or a portion) is reversed (Revenue goes up and balance sheet account goes down)

Warranty Provision
Debit Warranty Provision $500 (increases expenses on the income statement)
Credit Warranty Reserve $500 (a balance sheet account).

When this particular vehicle incurs warranty service, the expense does not go to the income statement but rather gets deducted from the Warranty Reserve that was set up when the vehicle was originally sold.

Summary:
Reserves
are usually expenses that have been recognized but not yet paid.
Deferred Revenues are usually revenues that have been collected but not yet earned.
Both sit on the Balance Sheet as credits.

When discussing the upside potential of FSD, we are discussing when the FSD Deferred Revenue will get released; however, if you say instead "when the accrual gets released" you're not technically right but it is understood.
 

Tim S

Supporting Member
Feb 5, 2019
774
7,479
Albany NY
I've been doing this for 30 years, folks, and there is only one thing I can say for certain: I have never regretted selling part of my winning position even when the SP continues to rise substantially, as long as I still have a significant stake to enjoy the ride. But I have deeply regretted the times when I failed to take some money off the table, and watched my entire winnings evaporate in front of my eyes.

I find this hard to believe. I sold about 5% of my TSLA last week at 400, and I already regret it. Maybe I'm just greedy. o_O
 

uselesslogin

Supporting Member
Jun 13, 2013
1,830
3,776
Omaha, NE
Why do some people buy very low strikes?
They are not getting any leverage for their money, but get a ton of risk compared to shares.
See the top and bottom.
View attachment 492952
Most of these would be someone happy to 'buy to close' their position matching with someone who doesn't have the money to exercise their option so they are selling it.
 

Menifeer

Member
Mar 5, 2016
297
849
Menifee, CA
Why do some people buy very low strikes?
They are not getting any leverage for their money, but get a ton of risk compared to shares.
See the top and bottom.

These are 1/22s that still have 2 years to run.
View attachment 492952
A better question is, "Why would you NOT buy low strike LEAPs (vs buying shares)?"

The Jan 2022 $100 LEAPS sell at virtually no time premium. Their price will rise and fall dollar-for-dollar with the shares. If the shares have a major decline, the LEAPS will decline LESS (in dollars)!

What's not to like?
 

elasalle

driVIN(188xx) it !!
Jan 26, 2016
3,901
20,634
VA
With intent of accumulating more shares, I sold some of my Calls today. Profits got me 200 Shares (for free)
However, sold Puts instead, so I can get it in prices from $413-420 instead - depending on which strikes I sold.
Added some new calls, just incase the SP exceeds the price of Puts i sold.
~ Cheers!!
 

M3Rider

Supporting Member
Oct 3, 2018
1,463
7,422
CO
Most of these would be someone happy to 'buy to close' their position matching with someone who doesn't have the money to exercise their option so they are selling it.
Should have stated they were 1/22s that should be in no rush to exercise.

I guess from the seller standpoint, they may want to leverage up if these were bought 3mo ago (also a questionable buy back then).
Buyer? Yeah, maybe 'buy to close' to cap losses.
 

Nocturnal

Supporting Member
Aug 23, 2018
6,054
30,078
In the middle
With intent of accumulating more shares, I sold some of my Calls today. Profits got me 200 Shares (for free)
However, sold Puts instead, so I can get it in prices from $413-420 instead - depending on which strikes I sold.
Added some new calls, just incase the SP exceeds the price of Puts i sold.
~ Cheers!!
Calls seem too rich for my blood right now. I guess I was spoiled by my (lucky) strategy to buy in the dollar or less per share range. Seems like risk/reward isn't good enough but maybe I'm missing something. (or I'm just not willing to potentially lose thousands of dollars)
 

KarenRei

ᴉǝɹuǝɹɐʞ
Jul 18, 2017
9,619
103,828
Iceland
Merry Christmas to you @KarenRei - and welcome back. :)

PS. I took me a few moments to realize that you weren't referring to some sort of silver-based product...

Sorry, spending Christmas with my family... I don't get a lot of time online. I've already been repeatedly forced to allocate time to rolling up call spreads due to this annoying endless stock runup... ;)
 

StealthP3D

Well-Known Member
Dec 12, 2018
8,629
63,253
Maple Falls, WA
TBH, I probably won't buy immediately in the new year and instead put the money elsewhere while waiting for what feels -- to me -- like a buying opportunity in $TSLA. Why? Well, I'm already >99% $TSLA so I feel like I can afford to bide my time a bit. And, if as @StealthP3D likes to point out can happen, the stock just runs away from me... well, I have the remaining 99% of the account in $TSLA. I don't see him at these levels :eek:

I would never recommend someone who is 99% invested in one stock to buy more of the same stock. I don't like margin either - takes all the fun out of it. I actually would recommend you sell at least half of your TSLA right now (to bring you below 50%). Yes, you would probably make more being fully invested but "probably" is the key the word here. You need to be smart about these things. I think the "standard" diversification rule of having no more than 10% invested in one security to be far, far, too conservative for most people, actually, almost everyone.

But for those of you who are overly impressed with the moves to date, and who think it's currently sitting at "nosebleed" levels, I have a chart for you to look at the big picture in relative terms. This chart will help illustrate why I think it's a bad idea to sell TSLA simply because you think it has appreciated so much, so quickly. It's a chart from the IPO ten years ago with the price appreciation graphed logarithmically which displays the price appreciation in terms of percentage gains. Because a $100 move from $300 to $400 is not the same as a $100 move from $15 to $115.

Looking
2019-12-26s.png

We are barely above our all-time highs from 2014! Now I'll be the first to admit it was over-priced then. I looked long and hard at it all through Tesla's early growth (including during the IPO) and never pulled the trigger until last year when I felt it had finally developed a good risk/reward ratio. You can say I was "wrong", and in hindsight, I was "wrong" but we don't invest with hindsight and I felt the risks of bankruptcy outweighed the potential gains. I've been "wrong" on a lot of stock I didn't buy (like AMZN, NFLX, etc.). But I also haven't invested in a lot of companies that went "tits up". However, now I think TSLA is a screaming buy for anyone who looks at the bigger picture. I went in "big" at $184 in June by doubling the position I had built up starting at $263, $240 something and $230 something as it fell from 2019 Q1 results. But it's not too late to take big advantage of Tesla's likely successes over the next 5 years.

That said, no, don't go from 99% TSLA to 100% TSLA, lol! :eek: Not even if it declines back to $380 temporarily (that's a very small move in the bigger picture BTW). Not even if it declines back to $180 (however unlikely that is).
 

Ratanpara

Member
Sep 29, 2016
223
1,033
Brick NJ
Accounting terminology can be a bit complicated especially since many terms are similar but not the same (expense, provision, reserve, accrual, deferral, etc.). This post if meant for non-finance members (finance members please skip)

To keep this post brief, I will cover only 2 of the terms that are very relevant to Tesla: Deferred Revenue and Reserve.
I will use the following example:
When Tesla sells an automobile for $57k ($50k base and $7k FSD) they have to defer the revenue on the FSD until earned and also record a reserve for warranty expenses (lets say $0.5k)

Here would be the entries:
FSD Deferral:
Debit Revenues $7,000 (reduces revenue on the income statement)
Credit Deferred Revenue $7,000 (a balance sheet account)

Once the FSD is earned, the entry above (or a portion) is reversed (Revenue goes up and balance sheet account goes down)

Warranty Provision
Debit Warranty Provision $500 (increases expenses on the income statement)
Credit Warranty Reserve $500 (a balance sheet account).

When this particular vehicle incurs warranty service, the expense does not go to the income statement but rather gets deducted from the Warranty Reserve that was set up when the vehicle was originally sold.

Summary:
Reserves
are usually expenses that have been recognized but not yet paid.
Deferred Revenues are usually revenues that have been collected but not yet earned.
Both sit on the Balance Sheet as credits.

When discussing the upside potential of FSD, we are discussing when the FSD Deferred Revenue will get released; however, if you say instead "when the accrual gets released" you're not technically right but it is understood.

I think Tesla have big room to adjust Warranty provision, If I look at my own case, I own Model 3 since September 2018, I only had one minor warranty service done, Model 3 is highly refine derivative of Model S therefore very little chance to incur major warranty cost.
 

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