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I thought there were two layers of cells in S and X packs, so that's 10 mm difference in cell height, which makes that a factor of five, not ten. What I don't know about are the connections required and the spacing needed between the two layers. You'd think they'd not be much different between the two cell types, but perhaps that's wrong. Anyone?

As mention above, there is one double stack of modules at the front of the pack. The modules themselves have bus bars on the top and bottom versus the 3 that has all connections on top.


I think something that needs to be kept in mind here re the hacks and tricking is that even the human computer (us, people) can be tricked by messing with the road signs, traffic lights, and street lines/paint. It's not just computers. Humans can be "hacked" too. Bottom line is that such nonsense is illegal. You can't guard against all these "hacks".

You don't even need a hack, putting traffic cones in the way will stop an autonomous car.

Is it? If it fits inside the existing enclosure, which I believe it would, they could just use the Model 3 type cooling passages and connecting plates built into modules which fit the S/X dimensions. I'm not saying they are going to or should be doing this now, I just don't think it's all that difficult

The overal dinensions work, but the pack internally has walls for each module. Going to full length modules like the 3 would kill the existing structural strength. Reusing the the same module dinensions would likely result in loss of capacity due to dead space (18 vs 21 modulus fits 6 in the space of 7, but modules aren't set up that way)
 
True full self driving has to honk before going around a blind corner, and has to listen for honks coming from around a blind corner.
I don't believe the microphone pickup listening for honks is present yet. It's also not able to listen to the verbal instructions of a police officer directing traffic...

Yeah, they should never have used the phrase "full self driving". They don't have the hardware for it yet, let alone the software. When they have a microphone, let me know.
OK. Hey Neroden, they have a microphone. Every Tesla vehicle since (at least) 2013 has a microphone used for voice commands. There is no obstacle to using this microphone as part of the self driving.
 
I wonder given the choice of a visionary jerk who show you the future and a nice man who just do whatever his boss ask him to do, who would you follow?

Yeah the purists would want neither and wasting his life searching for a nice man with vision, the pragmatic would swallow his pride and joined the team that changed the world.
Its not a binary choice.

Tesla & EM - can & should do better.

They should do better for their employees and customers. They should do better PR. Infact, these two go hand in hand.
 
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Without knowing anything about this situation, a couple of common reason when entire teams are switched out:
  • Pervasive fraud. This wouldn't necessarily be noticeable by customers.
  • Labor dispute. Whole staff might have threatened to quit - for example due to lowered sales commissions. Or they might have called in sick at once EoQ. Or all of the staff protesting some change.
  • Competition might have hired a whole team. (Looks unlikely to me.)
  • Some incident might have been covered up, with the knowledge of most of the staff.
The fact that rumors aren't spreading yet is suggesting that it could be something not so flattering to the old staff. If it's management playing hardball then laid off employees would be complaining on social media already.

If it is closing (and apparently the rumor is that it's not), they are flat out idiots. Tesla absolutely for a stone cold fact needs to have better geographical coverage of service centers in the countries where it delivers cars. This is the #2 priority for the company after getting Model 3 production up to targeted rates (which is worryingly not happening yet), and a much higher priority than conserving cash.

I'll keep an eye on this. It's one thing which could cause me to sell *all* my Tesla stock.

It appears that @Fact Checking was on the right track as this post over in the Canada forum has a little bit more details:

I heard back from an employee at Calgary. All service personnel were let go due to HR reasons. Other Tesla service personnel will be there Monday with more info to follow.
 
Have you guys ever driven across there? It's not even remotely like driving across New Jersey and Rhode Island. It more like driving across the widest part of Texas plus Nevada to get from Winnipeg to Calgary. Also Winnipeg would service eastwards to Thunder Bay.

Thoughts about closing:

1. If you look at the supercharge.info map the permits are centred around Winnipeg. To have them serviced in Calgary means you have to drive (or have the vehicle towed) through Saskatchewan. That's one heck of a long ways. Vancouver is actually closer to Calgary.

2. If I had the resources (or vehicle population) to only warrant two service centres in Western Canada, which is likely what closing the Calgary service centre would be about, Vancouver and Winnipeg would be my two choices, unless there was a large population of Teslas in Alberta (which there could be since Alberta is a "have" province).

3. Regina's population is a bit over 200K (and Saskatoon is even less), so it will be a long time before there are a significant number of Teslas there.

If it's just the staff being swapped out, then Karen has already done the analysis.

Somewhat related to the Calgary situation (that one's still confusing, as seems odd to fire an entire service team, only to replace them), but now there is a discussion on Twitter regarding the Plano, TX Service Center closing down now too, as of today...
Makes some sense, tbh, as Dallas/Ft. Worth is not that far away from Plano...
Regardless, I presume that's your neck of the woods, so to speak, Jerry.....so was curious if you had heard anything on that?
Thanks...
 
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That's basically all I'm saying... they should change the marketing so they don't appear to be advertising level 5 (since that is absolutely what they appear to be advertising right now)
"Full Self Driving" is just a product name like "Super Cruise" or "Ludicrous Mode" are product names. It does seem a bit misleading but there are lots of product names in the marketplace that suggest the product is more than it really is.
 
Makes some sense, tbh, as Dallas/Ft. Worth is not that far away from Plano...
Regardless, I presume that's your neck of the woods, so to speak, Jerry.....so was curious if you had heard anything on that?
Thanks...
I haven't heard anything about that, and checking the local FB pages doesn't show any discussion of this. They only opened up the Plano SC a short time ago. I went to it for the last annual inspection. However, I never encountered a long wait time at the Love Field SC before Plano opened up, and that was before a lot of service was being done by mobile service. I can see how they might only need one SC plus mobile service. It's too bad the Love Field one isn't in a particularly easy to get to location--heavy traffic during rush hours and no really good exits because it's surrounded by old parts of town with two lane streets (means one lane each way 30 mph limits). Usually takes over an hour to get home during evening rush from there (I'm in Plano).
 
"Full Self Driving" is just a product name like "Super Cruise" or "Ludicrous Mode" are product names. It does seem a bit misleading but there are lots of product names in the marketplace that suggest the product is more than it really is.
Yeah, like, what do you mean my Coke doesn’t have coke in it?

More serious note: I don’t remember at any time Tesla promised FSD option to be level 5. Technically they will fulfill their promise when NoA works on surface streets which can still be level 2.
Please correct me if I’m wrong.
 
There's an old divide between environmentalist leftists and "union" leftists (many of whom are happy to pollute) which doesn't rear its head that often, but is visible now, so I'm not surprised by existence of some "union" leftists with anti-Tesla attitude -- they're the "I'll lose my job if you prevent my factory from spewing lead into children's lungs" group, which I think is bonkers (it's their children who get poisoned) but the attitude is documented to exist.

Environmentalists have no use for SpaceX, obviously, which probably leads to some hostility towards Musk. Musk as an individual ticked off a number of environmentalists with his failure to do his homework on either rail or public transportation with the Boring Company. But I've found despite annoyance with Musk they're mostly still pretty positive about Tesla. On the other hand, I really don't get it when environmentalists are hostile to Tesla as a company -- that makes no sense at all.

I think you can also factor which of these two left groups is more likely to have a good understanding of the enhanced greenhouse effect. People who fear the Keeling Curve, love Tesla, especially if they have watched political failure to attack the problem despite several decades of lip service, and see technological revolution as our last remaining hope for survival.
 
The overal dinensions work, but the pack internally has walls for each module. Going to full length modules like the 3 would kill the existing structural strength. Reusing the the same module dinensions would likely result in loss of capacity due to dead space (18 vs 21 modulus fits 6 in the space of 7, but modules aren't set up that way)

I'd assume they would configure new module sizes to optimize the space, not use the existing Model 3 modules.
 
If Tesla decided to do equity issuance, which it currently does not want to, and I were in charge of deciding how, I'd do a rights issue to reward existing shareholders and to give a big "go to hell" to Wall Street underwriters (who have been stealing 1.5% of previous issuances in fees, which is a pretty nice deal if you can get it).

I might do it at 1 right for every 50 shares held (2% dilution). I might set the exercise price at $261 (higher than what the underwriter paid at the last offering), making the rights worth only pennies. If every one was executed, it'd raise 903 million dollars; if only half bought, it would still raise 451 million dollars. Enough for working capital. Since Tesla does not need the money, they don't need an underwritten offering; they can just see how much they get. Or if was more in the mood to reward stockholders, and I was worried about the stock price being driven down by FUD ("oh no they're doing a rights issue they must be running out of cash") I might set the exercise price down at $250 (making the rights immediately worth roughly $25 each, or 50 cents per with-rights share), with the maximum capital raised being $865 million, or $432 if half were exercised.

But anyway I'd do it this way because to hell with Wall Street underwriters!

Just curious, but how much money would Tesla need to start offering Model 3 for lease?
 
Yeah, like, what do you mean my Coke doesn’t have coke in it?

More serious note: I don’t remember at any time Tesla promised FSD option to be level 5. Technically they will fulfill their promise when NoA works on surface streets which can still be level 2.
Please correct me if I’m wrong.

Elon called it “level 5” when AP 2.0 was introduced. The description on Yesla’s website closely matched the definition of level 4. Either level would provide an autonomous self driving automobile.

GSP
 
I haven't heard anything about that, and checking the local FB pages doesn't show any discussion of this. They only opened up the Plano SC a short time ago. I went to it for the last annual inspection. However, I never encountered a long wait time at the Love Field SC before Plano opened up, and that was before a lot of service was being done by mobile service. I can see how they might only need one SC plus mobile service. It's too bad the Love Field one isn't in a particularly easy to get to location--heavy traffic during rush hours and no really good exits because it's surrounded by old parts of town with two lane streets (means one lane each way 30 mph limits). Usually takes over an hour to get home during evening rush from there (I'm in Plano).

Appreciate it... If you happen to be in the area sometime, couldn't hurt to drive by...
Eyes on the ground are always best...

This is the thread: NHTSAed on Twitter
Please feel free to add to the conversation there as well...
Thanks...
 
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Yeah, the big question is whether Model 3 type cooling passages and connecting plates are slightly thinner than Model S -- i.e. 5 mm -- which would allow for a pack of the same dimensions despite the change in cell dimensions.
Not sure what you mean, the cooling passages go between the cells and would not affect the height. And the Model 3 cells connect electrically only at the top unlike the 18650's which connect at top and bottom, so that eliminates the bottom connecting plate, saving more vertical space.

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