Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
I cannot fathom selling shares or adding to a short position right now. We've gotten nothing but positive indicators since Q2 P&D numbers and even though Q1 was a surprise to the downside, Q3 2018 was a massive surprise to the upside. The risk/reward just isnt there to be shorting more right now......but based on today's stock action and volume activity, I'd say additional shorting is happening.
This article explores why some people reject facts and become even more entrenched in their ignorance when confronted with facts.
Health Facts Aren’t Enough. Should Persuasion Become a Priority?
Robin
 
I have no idea about precedence. Is there any precedence for a company like Tesla? Has there ever been as disruptive a company as Tesla in a market environment where naked shorting is legal and used to manipulate (depress) share price? Me, spreading FUD? Ha!
There have been and there will be disruptive companies in the US market. Lot of shorting and FUD was going on back then. AAPL in 1999 and NVDA in 2016 have been two of them. Interestingly in the case of NVDA, institutions and insiders owned at one point 108% of the shares, than add some non-institutional owners, and a very huge short interest. And it's no secret that the SP of both companies has done very well since.
The scheme you mentioned is quite usual for disruptive companies who fight their way up.

Just thought you knew what you are writing about and would at least know if there is a case this happened before. Ok, obviously not, fine with me.

As far as I know, it didn't happen before. And if this is correct, I believe no one, not even the guys you mentioned, will try to create precedence here.
 
OT
He’s just saying he want to move all of earth’s economy on to clean/renewable energy, except for rockets which is impossible

It's not impossible though. The Mars refueling system is going to be CO2 + 2×H2O + energy -> CH4 + 2×O2. No reason they can't do that on Earth, just more costly. Reclaim CO2 from existing sources and use electrolysis on the H2O.
 
I’m pretty dense. What does that mean?

it means rockets you can fly without cleaning it. I am sure you have seen pre-flown F9s with soot and all. But cars have to be cleaned. Otherwise it gives a dirty unpleasant look for drivers and passengers and everyone that is sharing the road with you
 
I don't want to speak too soon, but just a reminder of the GF3 timeline:
  • Apr-2018 Removal of China 50% JV cap
  • Jul-2018 Deal to build in Shanghai
  • August-2018 Tesla shareholder letter - "In July, we announced our plan to build a wholly Tesla-owned Gigafactory 3 in Shanghai – our first Gigafactory outside the US. We are excited about this opportunity, as China is by far the largest EV market in the world and Chinese support for electric vehicles has been exceptionally strong. Initial capacity is expected to be roughly 250,000 vehicles and battery packs per year, and will grow to 500,000, with the first cars expected to roll off the production line in about three years."
  • Oct-2018 Land bought
  • Jan-2019 Construction started on a swamp
Currently on track for first customer vehicle off the full production line in December 2019 vs Tesla guidance for first car around August 2021 as recently as August 2018.
Tracking 16 months vs 36 months initial guidance.
That's the Elon time I like to see!

That's amazing. I'd forgotten how conservative their early G3 guidance was. I just searched through each of their subsequent quarterly update letters, and not once did they get "more Elon" about the timeline. In fact, they made no further comments. Pretty sure they'll rectify that in the Q2 update.
 
OT


It's not impossible though. The Mars refueling system is going to be CO2 + 2×H2O + energy -> CH4 + 2×O2. No reason they can't do that on Earth, just more costly. Reclaim CO2 from existing sources and use electrolysis on the H2O.

OT: True it can be net carbon neutral, but CH4 is still a greenhouse gas left in the atmosphere. And potentially significantly more impactful for global warming when in the upper atmosphere .
 
OT
OT: True it can be net carbon neutral, but CH4 is still a greenhouse gas left in the atmosphere. And potentially significantly more impactful for global warming when in the upper atmosphere .

Yes, CH4 is a worse GHG by 30x. So to be the most green, they should run a little lean and ensure piping integrity. A Starship going to the moon or Mars can be net carbon negative due to combustion (or venting) outside the gravity well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: diatz and JRP3
Extremely unlikely, though silentum universi and it's implications are disturbing.


There is no point or goal; universe exists because it exists. Nothing less, nothing more.
I used to think that way, but now I'm not so sure. The Fermi Paradox looms large for me. I disagree on the last part. It's not about there being a goal, just awareness. :)
 
Interesting price action today. I did not expect red. I have a lot of Jan 2020 250 calls that are down 72% right now. I was going to sell half of them before earnings if we got to the 280-300 range. But at 255, I'm taking my chances and holding them through earnings. I have been wrong too many times to count, but I can't imagine we don't climb above 255 after the ER.
 
OT

Liquid hydrogen & oxygen makes great rocket fuel. It just doesn’t fit spacex’s budget.

Actually, it's not about the budget, SpaceX is using methane because CH4 is the densest molecular storage of hydrogen (!). This allows a reusable launch system with the best mass ratio. (Liquid hydrogen tanks are too large, much of what you win in efficiency you lose in tank mass and drag.)

Methane also has a couple of other advantages over H2:
  • Methane can be stored indefinitely during deep space coasting (such as months of flight time to Mars) - while hydrogen will permeate everything.
  • Methane is much safer to handle on the ground.
  • Economics of intercontinental flights via Starship ("Earth to Earth" suborbital transportation) is primarily dictated by the price of fuel (LOX is very cheap), which methane wins hands down: it's even cheaper than kerosene (RP-1)
I.e. methane is the best rocket fuel, all things considered.

(This is why Blue Origin is using methane too.)
 
Last edited:
I have been wrong too many times to count, but I can't imagine we don't climb above 255 after the ER.

It's quite possible I think: Wall Street consensus is a -$320m GAAP loss, which is in line with @luvb2b's and @EVNow's estimates in the finance thread.

I've seen some uberbull GAAP profit expectations here on TMC and on Reddit as well, based on the fact that it was a quarter with record deliveries - which expectations don't consider the costs of the pre-Raven inventory flush, nor of the Model 3 price cuts and SR+ take rate increase.

There are some wildcards in Q2, but if the current share price is based on GAAP profit expectations and short term speculation, then there might be a post ER price correction if Tesla "disappoints", or issues bearish guidance.

I do think cash flow will be robust - which is what matters to growth. They might also issue bullish guidance or other bullish news.

Anyway, not advice.
 
Last edited:
Weird that so much hay is being made of this crash in SF. Nothing about it sounds like autopilot was on(she was reportedly going 45 in a 30mph zone, which should be impossible on autopilot). Even had it been, autopilot doesn’t handle red lights, so it’s not different than plowing through a red light with cruise control on. It’s just some person that ran a red light and hit people...