Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[BenPrice]

Most companies that try to build in MO are not offered incentives by the state because the state government is working hard against the cities that benefit from the deal. I highly doubt Missouri will be on the list. Plus yearly the state legislature tries to ban Tesla sales.

I have a post from a few months ago I Can dig up, but St. Louis is quite ideal:

2 major plants have closed in the past 15 years - Ford in Fenton and GM in Hazelwood.

This implies both the infrastructure and workforce to mfg autos.

True Manufacturing is the industry leader in stainless steel kitchen equipment.

This is a skilled workforce that, from my personal experience, does not treat their employees the best. They’ve had to open 3 facilities roughly 100 miles apart from their main and each other because they’ve churned so many people through their facilities who found the treatment/compensation subpar.

And the St. Louis region threw the kitchen sink at Amazon (and lost of course, to NY) for their HQ2.

Lastly, STL lost AB to inBEV and Monsanto to Bayer.

My money is on the STL region.

 

[lklundin]

Honest question because I don't know but I'm getting old and I don't recall ever seeing any news about China nationalizing foreign companies. When was the last time they did this to a western company? I mean I'm sure they are stealing IP but actually confiscating factories?

I am no expert, but the actual loss of IP seems exactly the thing that companies should avoid losing to China, since after that the rest will follow:

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

PS. Just over-mouse to see title as part of the URL...

 

[UncaNed]

tighten your seat belts.....going to be another bumpy day. DJ down 740 pre open.

Then why doesn't premarket seem to reflect anything bad?

 

[Don TLR]

This is too funny. Lexus dealer spams Tesla owners: 'You've had your fun, now it's time for zero compromise' - Electrek

No thanks, too busy still having fun with my Teslas. I'll trade my S in for a Y though.

Do you still want to have Fun AND drive car in First place or or that old ICE car down in 23rd..

 

[X Fan]

Then why doesn't premarket seem to reflect anything bad?

huh....virus+recession risk+putin/Saudis storyline is here to stay.

btw: We're heading down towards a bear market (5% to go).

 

[Pezpunk]

dont wanna jinx it but, dang TSLA bucking the macros so far.

 

[dl003]

Starting off green. How 'bout that?
Are we in a place where we begin to bitch over stimulus and cut guidance instead of coronavirus? I'd love to be in that place TBH.

 

[ByeByeJohnny]

I am no expert, but the actual loss of IP seems exactly the thing that companies should avoid losing to China, since after that the rest will follow:

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

PS. Just over-mouse to see title as part of the URL...

Well yeah, but you did write "nationalization of assets incl. IP" which clearly implied more.

 

[Eugene Ash]

As I suspected would occur again today on this 2nd day with the "Uptick Rule" in effect, an significantly large amount of naked short selling occurred.

FINRA reported "Short Exempt Volume" was 6.59% of "Short Volume", a.k.a. naked short selling. Here is a chart showing recent history the FINRA short selling reports:

View attachment 520497

Notice that the volume of naked short selling today reached the 142nd Percentile. To get a feeling for how rare this should be (if it were to have occurred only by chance), we'd expect this deviation from the averages only once in 142 trading sessions.

This is the 4th time it has happened in the last 12 sessions. This is not happening by chance. One or more parties are taking advantage of their status as Market Makers to circumvent the "Uptick Rule", and conduct large volumes of naked short selling, likely to advantage their own proprietary trading positions. This is illegal.

Only Market Makers have this priviledge, but it is illegal to use it for anything except legitimate market making. MMs are barred specifically from using their "Short selling exemption" to support their own proprietary trading. The big drop that happened immediately at the Open on Tue, Mar 10, 2020 smacks of naked short selling by MMs. TSLA followed macros (NASDAQ-100) for the entire rest of the session, but the loss relative to the rest of the market was made to stick throughout the day.

IMHO, this is illegal market manipulation by certain unethical Market Makers, whose conduct should be investigated.

#SEC #DOYOURJOB

While SEC is asleep: who specifically are MMs in TSLA, and would it make their job harder if we abandon them?

 

[lafrisbee]

Ummm, those flyers were left on tesla owner's vehicles. It very much was targeted at tesla owners. That's what makes their marketing campaign so bone-headedly funny. There are dumb people everywhere!

I would like to see proof of that... it is difficult to believe there is a high enough concentration of Tesla vehicles ANYWHERE to make the strategy a financial success.
Well unless it was a Tesla Rally...or they are paying someone to ride around with leaflets with such specific strategies for multiple car brands.

EDIT> I ask your forgiveness.
I did not read the accompanying text before i replied.
You are correct... I also wonder how the dealership got the addresses of the Tesla owners?

 

[dl003]

I would like to see proof of that... it is difficult to believe there is a high enough concentration of Tesla vehicles ANYWHERE to make the strategy a financial success.
Well unless it was a Tesla Rally...or they are paying someone to ride around with leaflets with such specific strategies for multiple car brands.

EDIT> I ask your forgiveness.
I did not read the accompanying text before i replied.
You are correct... I also wonder how the dealership got the addresses of the Tesla owners?

They get them from the DMV

 

[mars_or_bust]

@DKurac
"LG Chem, Tesla GF3 agree on 10-13 GWh #NMC811 supply based on initial agreement, #China media reports without citing sources. LG Chem has not yet commented on the news. Earlier reports showed #CATL to supply Tesla with #LFP for 40% of GF3 1st phase capacity in 2020."

If LG cells will all be for LR Model 3 this is enough for 125k to 160k annual production. If CATL supplies 40% and all for SR+ they can support 120-155k annual production. This lines up with recent reports that Tesla will upgrade to 260k MIC Model 3 capacity in June/July 2020.

There is something about these deals I don't understand, perhaps I missed something, and any clarification would be greatly appreciated.

Question(s): These LG Chem and CATL cells - are the chemistries in them their standard ones? If the chemistries are proprietary Tesla(Panasonic) know-how/Tesla(Panasonic) secret sauce, does Tesla ensure that LG Chem and CATL do not use the chemistry for other clients?

As there are no reports I know of of Chinese buyers complaining about the differences in performances of MIC Model 3s between ones with Tesla/Panasonic and without Tesla/Panasonic batteries, it seems that the battery performances are rather similar.

I know that Tesla has much supperior cooling, BMS etc design, but a large part of the superior Tesla perfomance aer also at the cell level, which leads me to believe that the LG Chem and CATL cells for Tesla China are specially made.

 

[Artful Dodger]

Then why doesn't premarket seem to reflect anything bad?

This is just trader's games. The SP ran up in the final few minutes of the Pre-market session,

Then sold off at the 50-day Moving Average MA(50) at $652.97

Seems like most early day moves stop and start based on TA. It's a thing in Wally World.

Cheers!

 

[ninpb]

Pessimist in me thinking Elon is a marketing genius. Majority of this central giga is for Y production. CT can fit in the corner. Start Twitter with ear grabbing "CyberTruck" to make it sound like demand is crazy amazing and that gets people to look at it more.

 

[lklundin]

There is something about these deals I don't understand, perhaps I missed something, and any clarification would be greatly appreciated.

Question(s): These LG Chem and CATL cells - are the chemistries in them their standard ones? If the chemistries are proprietary Tesla(Panasonic) know-how/Tesla(Panasonic) secret sauce, does Tesla ensure that LG Chem and CATL do not use the chemistry for other clients?

As there are no reports I know of of Chinese buyers complaining about the differences in performances of MIC Model 3s between ones with Tesla/Panasonic and without Tesla/Panasonic batteries, it seems that the battery performances are rather similar.

I know that Tesla has much supperior cooling, BMS etc design, but a large part of the superior Tesla perfomance aer also at the cell level, which leads me to believe that the LG Chem and CATL cells for Tesla China are specially made.

Good questions. Some comments:
1) For the Standard Range Model 3, the battery pack only needs about 55kWh, so cells with a lower volumetric energy density (due to a different chemistry) can be used.
2) It appears that Tesla has decided that since they are cell supply constrained, they can thus use different types of cells with a lower energy density for their SR variants without compromising the vehicle's performance.
3) This in turn allows Tesla not only to build more SR cars, but also,
4) frees up their proprietary cells for use in LR (and S/X) cars, as well as
5) denying the lower density cells to their competition.

There are even indications that Tesla has created a variant of their battery pack that can take prismatic cells (so a whole different form factor), presumably while maintaining their ability to use their liquid cooling to control the temperature of these cells in the pack. If true, this means Tesla can extend the range of possible cell suppliers to those who have capacity for making prismatic cells.

 

[lafrisbee]

This is just trader's games. The SP ran up in the final few minutes of the Pre-market session,

View attachment 520550

Then sold off at the 50-day Moving Average MA(50) at $552.97

View attachment 520551

Seems like most early day moves stop and start based on TA. It's a thing in Wally World.

Cheers!

$652 or $552?

 

[Rb48888]

OK ok. I've seen plenty of entertaining slants on this. But this will be an extremely effective ad to the two recognized target consumer groups. And both of those are in the majority as to one attribute. They BOTH never drove a Tesla.
The one is lexus owners. It reinforce their choice to drive a Lexus by dismissing the upstart. And the other group is those that have neither driven a tesla or a lexus but are going to buy one or the other.
It is NOT an ad designed to influence the tesla owner.

I think you're right about the effects, although the intentions were probably more directly aligned with the copy. That said, there's a third group that needs to hear this message from Lexus Dealer management... their own sales team.

 

[Artful Dodger]

While SEC is asleep: who specifically are MMs in TSLA, and would it make their job harder if we abandon them?

Its the rules of the games that are broken. You ready to abandon the game? Or do we stay and win in an unfair fight because we have superior tech, insight, and resolve? I say we stay, fight, and win.

BTW, 'short-selling' is like a Realtor walking by your house and yelling out prices at the neighbors, then selling it to them BECAUSE you think your house is worth more than his barked offer.

Naked short selling by Market Maker's is like that, the broker sells your house (and gets paid for it) before he even finds out where you live, or if you own the house.

He then gets 13 days to cover with any house he can find for cheaper. It's the rules.

Cheers!

 

[dl003]

I think you're right about the effects, although the intentions were probably more directly aligned with the copy. That said, there's a third group that needs to hear this message from Lexus Dealer management... their own sales team.

View attachment 520554

I love Lexus ads on FB, especially those for the LC 500. Remind me of how much they spend on designing and advertising these. Sold about 1,500 of them in the States in 2019.

 

[qphan79]

Good questions. Some comments:
1) For the Standard Range Model 3, the battery pack only needs about 55kWh, so cells with a lower volumetric energy density (due to a different chemistry) can be used.
2) It appears that Tesla has decided that since they are cell supply constrained, they can thus use different types of cells with a lower energy density for their SR variants without compromising the vehicle's performance.
3) This in turn allows Tesla not only to build more SR cars, but also,
4) frees up their proprietary cells for use in LR (and S/X) cars, as well as
5) denying the lower density cells to their competition.

There are even indications that Tesla has created a variant of their battery pack that can take prismatic cells (so a whole different form factor), presumably while maintaining their ability to use their liquid cooling to control the temperature of these cells in the pack. If true, this means Tesla can extend the range of possible cell suppliers to those who have capacity for making prismatic cells.

This reminds me of GM touting their new “modular” battery design (that will come out in just a few years ) Meanwhile Tesla shifts on the fly and incorporates different battery configurations to keep their momentum going! Pace of innovation is incredible!