Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Bet TSLA]

Uh yes, Drew looked at Elon when he said it and essentially "let the cat out of the bag" but put in so many caveats to not osbourne powerwall sales. Just need to read between the lines. The take away is..yes to V2G, but not really so keep buying our powerwalls.

Btw, every bi-directional power flow type of equipment requires extra hardware to power your own house for 220v+ applications like central heating. That's like saying "you need extra hardware like an inverter to collect solar energy". They just made it sound like it's such a hassle while a powerwall is so much easier.

What "in the future" means is some unspecified time that's not today and unlikely to be soon. You make it sound like you believe all future Teslas will have it. That's not what was said.

 

[Bet TSLA]

Meanwhile, big energy has now been informed that they are just as dead as big auto.

Tesla launches its UK Energy Plan, hints at upcoming Virtual Power Plant project

Octopus Energy broke down the key benefits of the Tesla Energy Plan. They are listed below.

• Power your home and EV with 100% clean energy
• Reduce your electricity bills
• Support the grid when it needs it most
• Reduce reliance on the grid
• Protect your home from power cuts
• Be part of Tesla’s first UK Virtual Power Plant
• Receive introductory offers

In May 2020, Tesla filed to become a full-blown energy provider in the UK. The Tesla Energy Plan it released in conjunction with Octopus Energy may be the first fruits of that application.

 

[Mike Smith]

Just a note to all - I was driving home today, passing through the Interlaken Park neighborhood of Seattle. I was startled by an oncoming Amazon Rivian truck. Unmistakable appearance. I was tempted to turn around and follow them to see if they stopped...but didn't.
So I have no idea if they were making trial delivery routes or just driving more or less randomly. But they are out there!

That's like spotting a murder hornet. You should have followed it to find the nest.

 

[MC3OZ]

Meanwhile, big energy has now been informed that they are just as dead as big auto.

Tesla launches its UK Energy Plan, hints at upcoming Virtual Power Plant project

Octopus Energy broke down the key benefits of the Tesla Energy Plan. They are listed below.

• Power your home and EV with 100% clean energy
• Reduce your electricity bills
• Support the grid when it needs it most
• Reduce reliance on the grid
• Protect your home from power cuts
• Be part of Tesla’s first UK Virtual Power Plant
• Receive introductory offers

In May 2020, Tesla filed to become a full-blown energy provider in the UK. The Tesla Energy Plan it released in conjunction with Octopus Energy may be the first fruits of that application.

Bi-directional power flow from the car, and home HVAC are a future part of the VPP.

In fact I don't think Tesla will stop there, any use/source of energy in the house is a potential candidate for eventual inclusion.

V2G will not replace a Powerwall, it will supplement Powerwall, if cells support it.

It seems for vehicles BD was optimizing for lower cost, and for Energy Storage BD was optimizing cost per cycle, there is a subtle difference.

If your car battery is not a "million mile" chemistry, V2G may be more for emergencies than active energy trading.

 

[Knightshade]

Uh yes, Drew looked at Elon when he said it and essentially "let the cat out of the bag" but put in so many caveats to not osbourne powerwall sales. Just need to read between the lines.

Nobody is going to hold off buying a powerwall for home storage and backup just to wait for some future car battery that'll cost a ton more and be far less available for those purposes because cars sometimes go places.

Going into BD the V2G superfans were SURE there'd be BIG NEWS about it- and ignored all the folks in here who kept pointing out it was not really as good an idea as they seemed to think.


Then BD comes... and Elon told them the same thing we did... and yet the Superfans apparently still think it was a SECRET READ BETWEEN THE LINES WINKS IT'S REALLY GONNA BE BIG message.


Drew only began talking at all there because Elon prompted him saying he thought they could do V2G in europe right now if they wanted, but NA not so much because of the extra HW issue.


Also- look up what really killed Osborne. Even Osborne didn't Obsorne themselves- they collapsed from a number of other stupid moves and mistakes- it's a popular oft-repeated myth though.

U
Btw, every bi-directional power flow type of equipment requires extra hardware to power your own house for 220v+ applications like central heating. That's like saying "you need extra hardware like an inverter to collect solar energy". They just made it sound like it's such a hassle while a powerwall is so much easier.

Notice how both Drew and Elon made the point north America needs extra HW such that using the car made even less sense with the NA connector on it?

And the Powerwall IS easier- because they install all the relevant HW when they install the powerwall- and then it just works. You never have to decide "Do I want to keep my fridge running- or do I want to leave my house?" or for that matter need to check before going to bed "Will I be able to get to work tomorrow if I leave the fridge running off the car?"

 

[CyberDutchie]

OT: this one from AlohaTesla, with the mountains in the background, definitely wins the award of most beautiful FSD clip:

https://twitter.com/AlohaTesla/status/1320566942550245378?s=20

 

[Artful Dodger]

I wonder what celebratory ritual Musk/BoD perform every time they make their competitors/enemies pay for a new factory.

edit: As I said earlier, I’m betting there's a similar strategy just waiting for the S&P infinity squeeze.

OT: I tend to think its Not a Celebration, and you can Not buy it from the website:

Spoiler: Not a Celebration

Or its a sip of TSLAQuilla. /s

P.S. While we're off-topic, I predict Alex Trebek will retire this year to be replaced by Ken Jennings.

Cheers!

 

[StarFoxisDown!]

OT: this one from AlohaTesla, with the mountains in the background, definitely wins the award of most beautiful FSD clip:

https://twitter.com/AlohaTesla/status/1320566942550245378?s=20

View attachment 602771

That twitter account also has a image of the car going off road where there's no clear separation of road and terrain and it shows that the car can still determine its pathing. And the road itself was just dirt

 

[Artful Dodger]

"Tesla Plans $10B+ Spending, Elon Musk Performance Plan Details TSLA 10 Q Analysis" | Tesla Daily w. Rob Maurer

 

[lafrisbee]

The originals were already good for 300k, which is longer than most cars remain in service.

This whole topic was exhaustively hashed in here in the weeks up to battery day.... ONE MILLION MILE BATTERY is a great marketing gimmick but nobody really cares. Nobody keeps cars that long- even a 300k car is usually on its third owner.

Evidence includes the fact CATL has had ONE MILLION MILE batteries and 0 customers for them. That alone doesn't matter much.

The BD breakthroughs matter because of cost, density, and scalability.





Not really.

Especially when Teslas next-gen battery packs will be structurally integral to the car itself and not intended to be swappable.





...so the home would be powerless when you go somewhere? Also where are you charging the car if you don't have power at home from any other source?

Even Elon dismissed V2G as having significant value on battery day when specifically asked- just buy a powerwall- vastly cheaper and your fridge doesn't die when you need to leave home- and charge it with solar if you want to be off-grid.

Not only that- stationary batteries will use different chemistries and can be a lot cheaper because they don't need to be nearly as light or compact or hit the same charge/discharge rate targets as the car.



Overall I'd encourage you to watch a replay of Battery day as you appear to have drawn a number of conclusions in this post and the last one directly counter to what Elon actually told us.

so let me get this right? I didn't say one damn good thing. Got it! lol
And then there is how all of what I said makes sense to me. Or at least SOMETHING MUST HAVE?
But I will offer a bit of clarification. The cabin will be very small. The cabin will have a small solar array and an inexpensive small battery to keep the lights on. But not enough to power the life comforts of a fat old man with a fixation on TMC. The solar array can give the Cyber enough fuel to make it to a supercharger. And it will be fitted out to do just that, perhaps more if it is financially prudent.
And v2g would be nice, and is expected (in my mind I do not figure out what you believe) in the cyber. And if it isn't the cabin will be a four-walled efficiency apartment, and can be supplied with the outlet(s) from the cyber if need be.

 

[lafrisbee]

Where/when did he say that all future cars would have it? Because on BD he seemed to say exactly the opposite- reiterating that it sounds better than the reality and that it's better to keep the car and the grid-tied storage separate.

He noted they DID have it on the original roadster- and nobody used it. Then on BD mentioned:

MMMmmm? I think you need to look at the lifestyle of the initial roadster buyer. I believe Elon even mentioned that he understood it wasn't probably in much of a demand for the millionaires that bought his roadsters, but would in fact be a desired and useful asset to the average booger-eating moron like me.

 

[kengchang]

SI

 

[Sunlight]

Whilst things seem to be fairly quiet and taking in account the brains and experience on this thread, please may I ask a question related to V2H/V2G?

I'm planning on converting my home-built sportscar to an EV but it will only be used infrequently for fun. This means that there will be 15kWh LifePo4 batteries sitting in the garage which I could use to supplement the house storage. Many have told me this is problematic for numerous reasons.

However another person suggests that connect the batteries to a timer and another MPPT and run it like a night time solar panel (96v)....

Will this work? Has anyone done this? It sounds sensible but will it work....

Thanks

 

[MC3OZ]

Whilst things seem to be fairly quiet and taking in account the brains and experience on this thread, please may I ask a question related to V2H/V2G?

I'm planning on converting my home-built sportscar to an EV but it will only be used infrequently for fun. This means that there will be 15kWh LifePo4 batteries sitting in the garage which I could use to supplement the house storage. Many have told me this is problematic for numerous reasons.

However another person suggests that connect the batteries to a timer and another MPPT and run it like a night time solar panel (96v)....

Will this work? Has anyone done this? It sounds sensible but will it work....

Thanks

I recommend that you post your question here:- DIY Lithium battery project(s)

Or search "DIY LiFePO4" in YouTube.

I found an interesting video.
I've linked it here:- DIY Lithium battery project(s)

(Scroll to the bottom of the page)/

 

[dakh]

About 10 years ago, we installed a natural gas generator after a massive early-season New England snowstorm left us without power for 8 days. That was an unusual storm; we probably average less than 10 hours/yr of outage. The generator was around $5500 all in, ordered and installed through Home Depot. Our annual electricity consumption is around 20,000 kWh. The generator would handle almost all of the house power other than central air conditioning. Here in New England, you can die from lack of heat but not from lack of AC. We already had natural gas for heating. Cost for gas and maintenance is less than $500/yr. System automatically cuts over when there is 10 seconds or so of power loss. It is a bit noisy, but it hides nicely behind bushes.

We are putting in Tesla solar now (16.32 MW, 48 panels, $32k pre 26% tax credit). Tesla recommended 4 Powerwalls, which would add an additional $16k. I decided to skip the Powerwalls and keep the gas generator and the $16k. The gas generator was relatively inexpensive and could run for days if needed.

Since this is investment thread, all I have to say is far from everyone is like you. 20KWh to me is just crazy talk, all I need is something to run the fridge to not spoil the food and a few laptops and lights. I own a generator that I use to run tire warmers for my race bikes that is a bit under 2KWh, and when the power is out I rig that up and it's good enough with a lot of margin. That genset was around $600 if memory serves. I think powerwall makes a lot of sense in areas with a lot of sun.

 

[Carl Raymond]

Since this is investment thread, all I have to say is far from everyone is like you. 20KWh to me is just crazy talk, all I need is something to run the fridge to not spoil the food and a few laptops and lights. I own a generator that I use to run tire warmers for my race bikes that is a bit under 2KWh, and when the power is out I rig that up and it's good enough with a lot of margin. That genset was around $600 if memory serves. I think powerwall makes a lot of sense in areas with a lot of sun.

Check your generator. You may find it is 2kW, not 2kWh. (i.e. if you run it for 10 hours it can produce 20kWh).

 

[engle]

You $420.69 guys must be having a field day getting stoned and buying up all the $420.69 shares. Are you capping it?

Meanwhile, one of my chat friends in Shenzhen just told me:

Yes, it is very correct. Because of this virus, many Americans are facing a very big crisis. What is the reason? This is because Americans do not have the concept of saving. When the crisis comes, they cannot have enough protection to deal with the crisis, so they can only rely on the help of the government, but China is different. China implements isolation and everyone is conscious of being at home. Isolation means that there is no income for three months, which has not affected China in the slightest, so it is very important to have the concept of investment and savings.​

She is absolutely right. Is it too late for the average American to learn to save and invest? I think the core problem is they have nothing left over after they buy food, etc. and pay their rent.

O/T Personal note:

I indicated a strong desire to tour Giga Shanghai during the 5+ months I will be based in Taiwan and visiting Asian countries that are relatively safe Covid-wise. Hopefully, she can arrange through her business contacts... She told me China also has a strict 14-day quarantine for visitors just like Taiwan. So it would be a month spent in quarantine alone! If that happens, expect a lot of off-topic humorous posts from me here when the market's closed!! (I'll mainly be working on a writing project.)

 

[amolina]

I still haven't seen an unprotected left turn with an oncoming traffic yet in the videos. Has anyone else seen that?
This is one of the most difficult thing for the Autopilot. Does the Beta solve it well?

 

[Vad42]

AMD to acquire Xilinx in all-stock deal valued at $35 billion

If this happens, this will certainly free up spot for someone to join some index or something... However "closing before end of 2021" is a bit too far off...

 

[OrthoSurg]

You guys have to be realistic.

$40,000 stock price? LOL... A market cap of $40 Trillion by 2030? C'mon guys.

The danger is starting to believe that if confirmation bias is at work