Folks, that was a political speech more than a policy speech. Take a breath and wait for bill text.
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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
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mars_or_bust
Member
Biden: “talked to a dozen CEOs about the UAW and all of them *but one* said they understood”. I bet that was Elon. Trump had many flaws, but at least he was anti-union...
mars_or_bust
Member
I honestly think you overestimate Biden.
1. If every CEO was as thoughtful, compassionate, and not greedy as Elon Musk is I'd be anti-union as well. Sadly, that's not the world we live in.
2. Honestly, I underestimated him and have been pleasantly surprised every step of the way.
3. Let's end it here my friend.
Did you also hear that he got leader of Fortune 500 leaders together and "all but one" supported unionising...
I noticed that too, I'm sure that was Elon.
The first original EV rebate program included Tesla, and any new EV rebate plan certainly won't exclude an American EV company with tens of thousands of American workers. The optics of such would be utterly terrible.
He made a few hundred million if I recollect, no where close to a billion.
I think you're overestimating the power of Unions.
If you think Biden and Democrats are dumb enough to introduce legislation that they know will be challenged by Tesla in court and that they will lose to Tesla on...........in addition to the optics of Tesla, who employees 15,000 workers in California and likely another 15,000 over the next couple of years in Texas, being singled out.....well then I don't think anyone here is going to get through to you
It's also hard to paint Tesla as treating its employees poorly when so many of those employees have been enriched by the company's success. I won't waste any energy hyperventilating over this unless I see an actual hard push to exclude Tesla from the bill - and no, a speech to UAW members in a swing state ahead of a midterm that's expected to be a knife fight doesn't count.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Again, I don't expect there will be a union requirement- but the reasons are largely political and practical, not legal.... the idea it's UNPOSSIBLE to legally have one just doesn't hold much water.
"non union workers" are not a specially protected class, nor are "companies that don't have unions"-- so the government would have a very low bar of scrutiny to survive a court challenge to such a requirement.
Folks are treated differently all the time in the tax code for weird reasons that stand up fine in court.
Krugerrand
Meow
Why do we need this EV Bill anyway? I honestly don't understand.
Tesla sells and will sell each car they make. This bill will do nothing to speed up production at Tesla.
If Tesla achieves milestones shown during Battery Day then demand will not become an issue.
Judging by the Biden speech this EV Bill is mostly about Unions and throwing a lifeline to car salesmen who not so long ago spent millions lobbying against Tesla. GM was viscous in the campaign to stop Tesla from selling directly to consumers.
Tesla sells and will sell each car they make. This bill will do nothing to speed up production at Tesla.
If Tesla achieves milestones shown during Battery Day then demand will not become an issue.
Judging by the Biden speech this EV Bill is mostly about Unions and throwing a lifeline to car salesmen who not so long ago spent millions lobbying against Tesla. GM was viscous in the campaign to stop Tesla from selling directly to consumers.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Not hard to understand at all.
It's a handout to GM.
(and might eventually be one to Ford, if they produced a crapload more EVs eventually)
TheTalkingMule
Distributed Energy Enthusiast
You guys have quite fertile imaginations. This is politics. Subsidies shouldn't be flowing to foreign made EVs from Ford or GM, but they will......and that's what this is all about. By saying union over and over again, Biden distracts from the fact the Mach-E is made in Mexico. If he didn't, the mob would be shouting for domestic production.
Tesla will be getting by far the most out of these subsidies because they'll sell most vehicles while the subsidies are in place. The others will benefit by noting having to build in America.
Tesla will be getting by far the most out of these subsidies because they'll sell most vehicles while the subsidies are in place. The others will benefit by noting having to build in America.
Paracelsus
Active Member
Both sides of the aisle have a fossil fuel legacy and thus an incentive to ensure that ICE Mfg's and the Fossil Fuel Industry land softly during this Paradigm Shift that is already well underway. So I do not think this is as much about unions as it is about a massive part of our existing economy - unfortunately. And let's not forget how this comment didn't age well, but supports the concept of Biden helping ICE MFG's and fossil fuels land softly:
Anti-Union is not a good thing. For the traditional US Auto Worker union is very important. Tesla isnt a traditional auto company. Employees are handled more like Silicon Valley workers, not just meat.
Politics over policy always wins, and that explains some of the mess
we are in.
we are in.
RobStark
Well-Known Member
I don't see any "Made in the USA" requirements that excludes BEVs made by Canadian and Mexician Unionized workers.
Nothing that requires UAW workers to the exlcusion of Unifor and CTM workers.
There will be several BEVs made by Unifor workers as well.
Ford is retooling their Oakville Ontario factory for BEV production.
Chrysler makes the Pacifica PHEV in Windsor Ontario that gets the full $7500 Federal Credit.
General Motors is investing $800M to convert its CAMI manufacturing plant in Ingersoll, Ontario for BEV manufacturing.
Im probably missing something but couldn't Tesla workers form a "Progressive Auto Workers Union" where there are no union dues and union workers just fight for stock based compensation and ask the company to do things that benefit their shares? I mean to me thats basically what they have done by collectively not joining a union anways. Just call it a union instead of saying they collectively aren't a union.
Workers can always vote whether or not to unionize. Under current laws, companies and politicians have no say. It would seem that the best companies for workers would be those in which its workers have not chosen to unionize.
Biden wears his political hat when referring to "good union jobs". But the government cannot require companies to be unionized in order for their customers to receive tax benefits, or for such companies to be considered for government purchases of their products.
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RobStark
Well-Known Member
The UAW would sue and say this is a company sponsored Union, which is not allowed under USA law.
The current make up of the National Labor Relations Board, controlled by Biden Appointees, would likely side with the UAW.
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