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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
How in the world based on available info have you arrived at that conclusion?
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insaneoctane
Well-Known Member
I think it’s smart to open superchargers to help pay for them. SCs are significant sunk costs and likely are still being subsidized since IMO (monthly income) << (monthly cost) at most SCs…
The advertising is automatic for a slow charging vehicles because they will watch countless Tesla’s come and go in minutes while they charge…They will also either witness or experience perfect point of sale methods that all Tesla customers experience at SC and hate the other chargers even more.
But, how infuriating will it be on a long trip, to pull up to a overcrowded Supercharger, exasperated by slow charging “others” and wait in queue, behind a VW, Audi or whatever? Tesla needs a solution that minimizes the impact to Tesla customers to not create an issue. To be honest, the minimal impact solution is NOT OBVIOUS TO ME.
The advertising is automatic for a slow charging vehicles because they will watch countless Tesla’s come and go in minutes while they charge…They will also either witness or experience perfect point of sale methods that all Tesla customers experience at SC and hate the other chargers even more.
But, how infuriating will it be on a long trip, to pull up to a overcrowded Supercharger, exasperated by slow charging “others” and wait in queue, behind a VW, Audi or whatever? Tesla needs a solution that minimizes the impact to Tesla customers to not create an issue. To be honest, the minimal impact solution is NOT OBVIOUS TO ME.
Its confusing that they say CCS cars should work with autocharge but the ID.4 doesn’t — it uses CCS for DC fast charging, doesn’t it? Did VW go out of their way to cripple the charge connector?
We don't know what is being given away and how much. So we don't know if it's for peanuts or not.
You can't compared what a gas station make from gas vs a charging station. There are a lot of fees/taxes/profit from every barrel of oil. From refining, to distribution, to taxed by the government. Elon already mentioned supercharges will be gathering energy from the sun and putting it into powerwalls. The Sun doesn't need to take a cut of the electricity it generates, and transportation cost is free.
So lets add this all up.
Pre-fab superchargers spotted in the wild
Elon twitting "massive supercharge expansion"
Giga Shanghai making 10k stations a year
Looks like Tesla is in the business of putting a station in every corner and WAWAs while monopolizing the entire charging infrastructure as EA couldn't get their crap together. Oh also I believe these stations may be subsidized by the good old US of A from the infrastructure bill.
Now once you control the distribution, you control the EV market. Literally everyone who buys other brand will have to think about the possibility of paying a different rate vs a Tesla and if it's worth it (it's worth it, HOWEVER, psychologically people just hate paying more for the same thing).
I like the idea of a unique identifier built into the adapter, so a car set up with the adapter just plugs in and billing is automatic (no app used except one-time setup and expired credit card). I hate all the different apps for different networks, and the clunky way to identify your plug to the app to initiate charging, and there’s a special place in hell for the ones that charge you in fixed blocks up front with no refunds for unused credits. Thankfully I only tried to see how it works and don’t rely on it regularly, but the Supercharger plug-and-go is massively better.
It would not concern me if non-Teslas require an adapter… Selfishly, I’m not really sure I want to make it completely frictionless for them to use superchargers. Avoiding the app and plug ID process would be enough to make it a generally superior charging experience.
It took Tesla 7 years to construct 1000 SuCs in the US. To get to the same coverage for non-Tesla vehicles using SuCs would presumably take a similar amount of time. Their utility will be very limited in the near term (Tesla will be at a DIS-advantage with respect to existing 3rd party chargers).
Many options have been discussed in the last few pages about how adapters plus existing SuCs could handle charging.
Of course they make no money. They sell a toxic substance that constantly has to be shipped BY TRUCK, unloaded by a person (who measures volume with a stick), sold by a machine with screens and card readers that are places of business for criminals skimming your CC data. What a great business model.
To charge $0.50 per minute of charging, whatever is the charging speed.
I'm hoping that Elon has thought this through, as the Norway scenario painted earlier of people fighting over chargers, and the whole Tesla vs non-Tesla sharing issue at superchargers troubles me. And when I buy my MY and approach a Supercharger only to find it filled with the slow-charging spawn of Diesel-gate, I'll be pissed too. The only thing I can imagine is that this is being done to attract some of the federal $$$ that is being set aside for charging stations.
AquaY
Member
More to it than that. And there should be., Tesla built it because no one else wanted to. Tesla paid for it, They should charge other companies to use it and it looks like they will make then invest something somehow.
“CEO Elon Musk has said in the past that the Tesla Supercharger network is open to use by other electric vehicle manufacturers, but to use the system other companies would need to help invest in the expansion of the network. As of today, no other company is known to use the Supercharger network
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With all the recurring revenue Tesla will be raking in, they can choose to lower their margins and cut the price of their cars even further. Not sure how other automakers are going to be able to compete with this.
Krugerrand
Meow
Imma take a wait and see approach, so currently I have no opinion.
The economics of operating an EV charger are an order of magnitude better than operating a gas pump. it is potentially a very big profit generator for Tesla.
Krugerrand
Meow
The need to make such a comment for all the world to see says more about Mr. Lambert than Elon Musk. And the irony of it on top is epic.
From what I'm reading here, the "competitive advantage" that most here feels is that SC until now is exclusive to Tesla owners and inherently, less wait time. However, we know that's not the case for peak time/days (long weekend on heavy traffic routes where SC has 50+ cars lineup)what if instead of the roughly 1000 stations we have now, it expands by 100folds and you basically have a station every few blocks or so, how would a station still be a problem? Ergo, how would it still be an advantage when it's everywhere?
Someone will eventually build these stations for all the EVs on road. And as more and more EV go on road, we expect more and more stations to become available. Be it Shell, Chevron, WAWA and what have you... I'd rather them all be Tesla. Tesla cannot fund a 100x expansion for SC today. There wouldn't be anywhere nearly enough Tesla on road to make it financially viable. With opening up SC? It might be feasible to spin-off SC into a separate company to do just that.
Someone will eventually build these stations for all the EVs on road. And as more and more EV go on road, we expect more and more stations to become available. Be it Shell, Chevron, WAWA and what have you... I'd rather them all be Tesla. Tesla cannot fund a 100x expansion for SC today. There wouldn't be anywhere nearly enough Tesla on road to make it financially viable. With opening up SC? It might be feasible to spin-off SC into a separate company to do just that.
Regarding the underlined.
The only fly in the ointment is those that control both the "green" message and the distribution of infrastructure funds hate Elon. The question then becomes, is that hate strong enough to slow the adoption of EV's by keeping the charging infrastructure fragmented/dysfunctional? IMHO yes.
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