Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[bkp_duke]

That and however many people quit after massive crypto or stock gains only to see those evaporate.

BINGO!

How many times did we hear from people that were retiring to do day trading, crypto, etc. etc.

Reality is harsh, and in the current market you can't do that anymore with any degree of reliability. Gotta suck it up and put food on the table, and to do that you have to go out and get a job.

I still blame the Fed and US Gov stimulus for all the $$$ they pumped into the economy. They created this "capital bubble" and now we are all watching the painful reality of that bubble deflating, and quite quickly at that.

 

[MP3Mike]

I can't believe people are making negative noises out of what should be a positive. As Tesla fills job openings, naturally, they will have less need to fill as many openings.

In general I think a decline in open positions is a good thing. All I was saying is that it wasn't a "very slight decline" of open positions. So it isn't a very slight good, it is a significant good.

Who is taking it as a negative? We don't know why the job openings declined, it could be they filled the positions, or it could be that they decided to not fill the positions at all. Filling the positions could be a "negative" if they are positions they are overweight in and are part of the 10% salaried cut that Elon announced. (But then again the new people could be better than the dead wood that Elon wants to get rid of.)

 

[Discoducky]

Re Apple Carplay trying to offer visuals and integrated screen for all cars (see Dave Lee's YouTube video below): why wouldn't Tesla license its hardware/ software MCU with 8 cameras, integrate with other car sensors and so offer autopilot - at the same time collecting driver data useful for FSD generally? First deal with VW most likely IMHO. Of course may not be worth the headaches even tho very logical and win win for everybody.

Watching that video was painful. @DaveT please discuss with folks that know much more what is going on and educate yourself prior to posting about things that will never happen. James does a fantastic job with AI and FSD as an example.

I've written a bunch on this already so I'll just say this: Until Apple puts one of their chips in the vehicle and all compute goes through that chip, this is a nothing burger.

 

[JRP3]

“Texas franchised dealer laws protect competition and provide the most efficient and effective delivery model for new and used car sales in Texas,” claimed Jennifer Stevens, a spokesperson for the Texas Automobile Dealers Association.

Texas excludes Tesla from electric vehicle rebates program

Despite having moved its HQ to Texas, Tesla has been excluded from the state’s EV incentive program.

thedriven.io

 

[The Accountant]

In general I think a decline in open positions is a good thing. All I was saying is that it wasn't a "very slight decline" of open positions. So it isn't a very slight good, it is a significant good.

Who is taking it as a negative? We don't know why the job openings declined, it could be they filled the positions, or it could be that they decided to not fill the positions at all. Filling the positions could be a "negative" if they are positions they are overweight in and are part of the 10% salaried cut that Elon announced. (But then again the new people could be better than the dead wood that Elon wants to get rid of.)

Two comments on that chart with "open postings".

1. The chart was missing China.
2. The posting board at companies are notoriously outdated. Often postings stay listed for many months after the posting has been filled; companies will periodically do a purge to clean out stale postings. This may have been the case here. Also many jobs don't get posted as internal referrals or a database of existing talent is used eliminating the need to post.

I agree with you . . .nothing negative . . . a nothing burger in my opinion.

 

[larmor]

Texas excludes Tesla from electric vehicle rebates program

Despite having moved its HQ to Texas, Tesla has been excluded from the state’s EV incentive program.

thedriven.io

Heard from Texas' state govt reps: "We are pro business, pro individual rights over states and federal rights, pro growth, pro capitalism-- except when free markets decide against our buddies, in which case we no longer stand on the side of free markets, but instead restrict competition, and cast aspersions to other states to distract from our non capitalist agenda" "Ta da..." (obvious sarcasm, no one would ever accuse the great state of Texas of cronyism over capitalism)

 

[jkirkwood001]

The inclusion of Volvo and Polestar on the list is especially odd...given that they have basically teamed up with the competition (Google) and are already using Android Automotive (the auto OS - not to be confused with the phone screen sharing Carplay equivalent Android Auto) - the Polestar 2 uses it as does the XC40 Recharge EV. Honestly, while it still needs work, it was the closest thing to a Tesla I've experienced when I test drove the Polestar 2 for a day (Turo rental). It definitely showed how an all-in-one ecosystem (like Tesla's) was simply better.

Agreed and it bears repeating that this offering from Apple as well as Google are simply infotainment and the other controls are just "skinned" (those are coded and managed by someone else).

What Tesla has is fully integrated with all the code running in the vehicle (BMS, brakes, EPAS, body controls, pedal monitor, AP, DU...etc). All, and I mean ALL, can be OTA'd down to the bootloader. Which means that no matter what it can be updated. This is the ultimate level of integration and is several levels away from what Apple and Google have done.

Thanks @cab, I've been ignorant of the developments in Apple Carplay and Android Auto, and I wouldn't be surprised if others are too. It's worth getting the facts and avoiding an Apple-to-oranges comparison (pun intended).

I'm impressed by the current state of Android Automotive OS (vs. infotainment-only Android Auto - see screen shot below). Unlike the proposed Apple Carplay (which requires an iPhone), Android Automotive OS is not a skin @Discoducky, but the default software in the vehicle:

"Android Automotive is an operating system and platform running directly on the in-vehicle hardware. It is a full-stack, open source, highly customizable platform powering the infotainment experience. Android Automotive supports apps built for Android as well as those built for Android Auto."​

According to ArsTechnica:

"It controls not just maps and media, but the air conditioning, lights, ride settings, seat location, camera views, and most other car settings. You don't need a smartphone, since Android Automotive OS is installed on the car computer storage. An onboard version of the Play Store even lets you download apps directly to your car. The car is like the world's biggest Android device."​

If you look at videos of, for example, Polestar's OS, (wow! that's a... Tesla-like experience!) there is no "default OEM software", it's only Android Automotive OS. So the problems others have noted about not having an iPhone at all times don't exist with Android Automotive OS.

And unlike Tesla, Android Automotive OS offers apps - like Lyft. It would be better for Lyft to be built-in to the car rather than the driver using their tiny phone to run their ride-share.

And one other advantage Google has over Apple: Google has a long-established record of collaborating with 3rd-party manufacturers - like Samsung - to develop Android on independent hardware devices. Apple? Not so much.

K Mods, I guess this should move to another thread now.

 

[The Accountant]

It pains me to know you bought into anything Taylor Ogan puts out. That twitter account posts slanted Tesla related information non-stop.......all while acting like he's a Tesla investor. He's been exposed multiple times, yet he keeps up the charade.

. . .and why wouldn't he provide a notation that the data excludes China? Is he trying to manufacture a narrative?
My job posting count including China is 7,361

 

[H Mak]

I was stopped at lights earlier and a little boy, 7 max, was crossing the road with his Dad. He shouted "Dad is that a Tesla?". And the Dad smiled and said to me He loves Teslas.

Literally 5 minutes later I was passing a group of secondary school boys and one of them shouted "There's a Tesla"

Advertising anyone? Admittedly I had just had it washed

 

[Nolimits]

Stupid day job made me miss $699. (I did grab 709 at least)

Day jobs are the worst. Something tells me that there will more chances. Q2 is a complete toss up on how the market will react.

 

[elasalle]

Heard from Texas' state govt reps: "We are pro business, pro individual rights over states and federal rights, pro growth, pro capitalism-- except when free markets decide against our buddies, in which case we no longer stand on the side of free markets, but instead restrict competition, and cast aspersions to other states to distract from our non capitalist agenda" "Ta da..." (obvious sarcasm, no one would ever accuse the great state of Texas of cronyism over capitalism)

Where is AG Ken Paxton ? or maybe Twitter should file case against TX now

 

[dhanson865]

My guess is this nutty inflation has brought many workers back that were previously "out of the job market"...don't know how long it takes for that to officially show up in the stats...

When I was in Elementary school kids always talked about wishing for a million dollars so they could just live off the interest for eternity.

Now a million dollars eating at the principle won't last me 15 years, far short of eternity.

I could see someone misjudging their retirement funds, retiring too early and having to go back to work even if they had invested wisely in terms of the actual investments.

 

[Ogre]

I've written a bunch on this already so I'll just say this: Until Apple puts one of their chips in the vehicle and all compute goes through that chip, this is a nothing burger.

Hard agree. Looking at the original shots with the speedos and other gauges, this is what I thought they had done at first here. Extending the existing CarPlay model is not interesting.

It’s unlikely many automakers will take advantage of the full console experience.

 

[Oveeus]

Regarding the new Apple CarPlay announcement, TBH... I'm not worried as a TSLA shareholder but a bit sad as an AAPL shareholder.

Apple has lost the touch that made it the world's most valuable company.
Apple is all about the unparalleled user experience it is able to offer by integrating hardware and software.
By trying to do a one-size-fits-all solution, you either create clusters of versions or the experience would HAVE to vary.

If they were to announce something like a CarDeck where OEMs can buy or easily integrate them into their cars (say, provide the connector/holder to hold it), and people just buy the device to put it in their car, that'd be something to be excited for.

This is especially true if CarPlay wants to expand to be THE platform for others to create apps for. A developer is not going to write an app that could only work on certain cars and they might not have the scale to write for every car there is that support CarPlay.

Tesla, OTOH, basically did for cars what Apple did for smartphones. It has a relatively unified spec allowing developers to write one code, and work on every Tesla. The day that Tesla decides to open its ecosystem up and allow devs to write apps for it, it's going to change the car infotainment system forever.

 

[UkNorthampton]

New for UK? Maybe Elon's service shakeup is happening?

 

[Ogre]

Regarding the new Apple CarPlay announcement, TBH... I'm not worried as a TSLA shareholder but a bit sad as an AAPL shareholder.

Apple has lost the touch that made it the world's most valuable company.
Apple is all about the unparalleled user experience it is able to offer by integrating hardware and software.
By trying to do a one-size-fits-all solution, you either create clusters of versions or the experience would HAVE to vary.

If they were to announce something like a CarDeck where OEMs can buy or easily integrate them into their cars (say, provide the connector/holder to hold it), and people just buy the device to put it in their car, that'd be something to be excited for.

This is especially true if CarPlay wants to expand to be THE platform for others to create apps for. A developer is not going to write an app that could only work on certain cars and they might not have the scale to write for every car there is that support CarPlay.

Tesla, OTOH, basically did for cars what Apple did for smartphones. It has a relatively unified spec allowing developers to write one code, and work on every Tesla. The day that Tesla decides to open its ecosystem up and allow devs to write apps for it, it's going to change the car infotainment system forever.

Car makers are not willing to cede control over their interface (even though it would likely result in a better vehicle). Apple needs a way to inject their UI onto other people's devices. This is about the best they can do given the constraints.

Only way this changes is if Apple releases their own car or partners with someone. The number of competent car makers interested in partnering is pretty small. Seems like BYD might be a good match, but not clear they would want to be a hardware maker for Apple.

 

[Nocturnal]

Beta 10.12.2 is really good guys.

 

[Chunky Jr.]

CarPlay wants to expand to be THE platform for others to create apps for. A developer is not going to write an app that could only work on certain cars and they might not have the scale to write for every car there is that support CarPlay

CarPlay runs on the iPhone, so they just write their apps to run on iOS. The screens in car are just output devices (ie fancy monitors).

See CarPlay - Apple Developer for more info

I think it is a pretty smart strategy and will quickly let other auto manufacturers have entertainment experiences that rival Tesla instead of the junk they have now. We have two cars that support CarPlay and I like it. My wife and son use it exclusively, so all the software the OEMs wrote are a waste of their time and money.

Tesla's experience is really good too, and it is possible they could have an SDK and license it out as a competitor to CarPlay with FSD, or a subset of FSD.

 

[StealthP3D]

I've written a bunch on this already so I'll just say this: Until Apple puts one of their chips in the vehicle and all compute goes through that chip, this is a nothing burger.

So true! And, even then, it's just a burger with lettuce and slice of flavorless tomato between the buns. Almost a nothing-burger from a Tesla-centric point of view.

 

[Chunky Jr.]

Car makers are not willing to cede control over their interface (even though it would likely result in a better vehicle)

I think they would be fine w/o having to deal with software. They make their money on service, not software. Many are jumping on CarPlay bandwagon, which suggests they don't care about doing their own interface.