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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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I am normally a pretty rational thinker as well as would like to see other EV makers succeed. Lately, however, i cannot help but think this is a combined effort of MM's, Shortzies, outside influencers (Figured the time is right to attack Elon).
Macro and everything else does suck but does it really suck that bad that $TSLA should be down >60%?
 
I agree, particular with regards to newer lower end models as you suggested. They could almost sneak 2 models in under the Model Y LR. The Model Y AWD they already sort of released, and a Model Y RWD with slightly lower range. It is a bit fraught for them to discount existing models though. Taking a months long model vacation like they did with the Model 3 should work though.

Most of the legacy automakers are going to need financing to get their next leg of EV production going. That is going to be quite painful over the next couple of years. Particularly since GM and Ford are already so debt laden.
Most legacy auto are extensions of national economic policy and will NEVER be allowed to go bankrupt. Toyota, Stellantis, VW, MB, Hyundai, and dare I say it GM and Ford plus a few more.
 
I agree, particular with regards to newer lower end models as you suggested. They could almost sneak 2 models in under the Model Y LR. The Model Y AWD they already sort of released, and a Model Y RWD with slightly lower range. It is a bit fraught for them to discount existing models though. Taking a months long model vacation like they did with the Model 3 should work though.

Most of the legacy automakers are going to need financing to get their next leg of EV production going. That is going to be quite painful over the next couple of years. Particularly since GM and Ford are already so debt laden.
many of them started that this summer. Toyota is a real laggard and fighting tooth and nail
 
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Most legacy auto are extensions of national economic policy and will NEVER be allowed to go bankrupt. Toyota, Stellantis, VW, MB, Hyundai, and dare I say it GM and Ford plus a few more.
I can see for Japan in particular the government will try to put up trade barriers for their home market, but that doesn't help exports.
All governments can do is provide cheap loans which can be used to support the company and keep some jobs, perhaps even fund some modest expansions.

But cheap government loans can't sensibly be used to sell more cars at negative margins. If that is the model, it can get expensive.
If loans are used to ramp up EV production, that might bid up the cost of battery cells and battery raw materials and more EVs can close the ICE production lines faster.

One big competitor Tesla does have is BYD, that is why it is important that Tesla EVs have better margins, and also that Tesla can match BYD production costs. BYD has a natural edge in the Chinese market, Tesla has a natural advantage elsewhere.

Trade protection is definitely going to target cheaper Chinese EVs as the highest priority.

Trade protection is one reason why Tesla needs more factories in more countries,

I think it is true that governments will prop up some car makers with a combination of cheap loans and trade protection. But that partially depends on which political party is in power, how much it costs, and how much money the government has.

I don't think a recession is certain, but should it happen, the strong typically get stronger, and the weak weaker.
 
If it helps sales during a recession it is. Also is there no room for tweaking and improvement in aero?
Unless one is trained, a 2012 Model S looks very close to a 2022 Model S; the most notable change is, of course, the aerodynamic improvement to the front end.

This is one of the unique values of buying a Tesla; I know that a 2026 TM3 will look pretty close to a 2017 TM3, save the black out trim.

The value of a currently owned Tesla isn’t suddenly depreciated by new (pick option here) because a recession has begun.

Keep the sheet metal the same; if one really feels that new headlamps or tail lamps are going to goose sales more than the added grief to supply chain headaches then fair enough.

But I suspect Elon would never approve superfluous changes just to get current owners wanting to “trade up to the newest looking body style”; it’s not his way of doing things.

Perhaps add more cameras for FSD…
 
I can see for Japan in particular the government will try to put up trade barriers for their home market, but that doesn't help exports.
All governments can do is provide cheap loans which can be used to support the company and keep some jobs, perhaps even fund some modest expansions.

But cheap government loans can't sensibly be used to sell more cars at negative margins. If that is the model, it can get expensive.
If loans are used to ramp up EV production, that might bid up the cost of battery cells and battery raw materials and more EVs can close the ICE production lines faster.

One big competitor Tesla does have is BYD, that is why it is important that Tesla EVs have better margins, and also that Tesla can match BYD production costs. BYD has a natural edge in the Chinese market, Tesla has a natural advantage elsewhere.

Trade protection is definitely going to target cheaper Chinese EVs as the highest priority.

Trade protection is one reason why Tesla needs more factories in more countries,

I think it is true that governments will prop up some car makers with a combination of cheap loans and trade protection. But that partially depends on which political party is in power, how much it costs, and how much money the government has.

I don't think a recession is certain, but should it happen, the strong typically get stronger, and the weak weaker.
Well in Auto they have BYD and others. On energy they are competing with their cell provider, CATL. Since CATL has 34% of world marketshare this puts Tesla in an awkard and vulnerable spot. Maybe ok for a couple of years but it could get ugly as competitors ramp. CATL is directly competing for large solar projects today and has won several in North America.
 
Well in Auto they have BYD and others. On energy they are competing with their cell provider, CATL. Since CATL has 34% of world marketshare this puts Tesla in an awkard and vulnerable spot. Maybe ok for a couple of years but it could get ugly as competitors ramp. CATL is directly competing for large solar projects today and has won several in North America.
The world uses 27k terawatt hrs of electricity a year. Tesla doesn't have to worry about any competitors until the year 2100. The pie is just that big.
 
The world uses 27k terawatt hrs of electricity a year. Tesla doesn't have to worry about any competitors until the year 2100. The pie is just that big.
These points are very cursory, As battery penetration increases the marginal value to the utility decreases. Far cheaper to overbuild renewables generation. So the actual need is a fraction. Mostly a smoothing function to buffer between wind and solar complimenting nuke power. We need a lot of battery but far less than some here are putting forward. If CATL offers a utility storage at x price and Tesla is 2x x well the utility may very well wait. I think energy had a real window 4 years ago, now I think you’ll see competition keep coming . I expect price wars in very few years.
 
These points are very cursory, As battery penetration increases the marginal value to the utility decreases. Far cheaper to overbuild renewables generation. So the actual need is a fraction. Mostly a smoothing function to buffer between wind and solar complimenting nuke power. We need a lot of battery but far less than some here are putting forward. If CATL offers a utility storage at x price and Tesla is 2x x well the utility may very well wait. I think energy had a real window 4 years ago, now I think you’ll see competition keep coming . I expect price wars in very few years.
Enh, Hornsdale paid itself off in two years. At those rates, one year is half the price. And that's assuming the grid can handle not having that buffer in the meantime (storage also replaces new peaker plants) Tesla's Big Battery In Hornsdale Earned Back Its Cost In 2 Years, Highlighting Why Renewables Are Beating Coal


General comment: Future Self Driving
 
If you made profits earlier in the year tax loss selling now makes sense. I've been dumping some of my losers for which I don't see a possibility of a quick turn around. Tesla hasn't been in that group for me but it could be for some.
No doubt you'd sell your losers who probably have no hope or less hope of coming back. But who sells your long maturing goldmine, am I right?