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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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Why are energy margins so low? Don't they have a really long backlog?

One theory is that Megapack orders currently being filled were placed before the recent large price increases. Another factor is that Megapack XL is still a nacient portion of Tesla Energy (but growing fastest of all within the company).
 
Thought I'd share a thought experiment I've been pondering...

Elon said interest rates are having a material impact to affordability, and thus softening demand. What if Tesla did what other legacy automotive OEMs often do to move more product- subsidize the interest rates? Would that help? Would it be more cost effective than these price reductions? Let's see!
  • $50K loan for 60 months
  • Current average new car loan rates ~6.0%
  • Interest on this loan ~$8,000
  • If subsidized down to 3.0%, interest would be ~$4,000
  • Cost of loan subsidy ~$4,000
So, it's more cost effective for Tesla to cut prices by $3,000 than it would be to subsidize the loan above. Sure loan balance, term, and rate reduction change the calculus, but I found the exercise enlightening...
 
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The most memorable thing for me was the original roadster getting launched to Mars. I still am amazed and pause anytime i see the image. Is there a way to recreate that magic?

screen-shot-2018-02-08-at-12-07-40-pm-1-1.jpg

No problemo. I heard Mars needs a FED. We're just one Hohmann Transfer* away from happyness. ;)

NewMarsFED.png


Cheers to the Martians!

c.f. *Golgafrinchan ARK Ship Beta.
 
An interesting theory:

As Tesla is not spending any capital expenses on factories anymore, how can this figure be going up? ^^

An interesting theory: that was a GoJo tweet. (Looks... Yup)

El Gordo's methodology:
  1. Start with an non-sensical assumption
  2. Run with it until you inevitably stub your d*ck.
  3. Go on TV
:p
 
On the topic of marketing (as opposed to advertising) I think we really should look at superchargers as the very best marketing imaginable. It was already the case, because rival EV owners, or ICE drivers saw those big Tesla logos by the charging stalls, but now that some SCs are open to all, its even more apparent.
I think Tesla should very deliberately define some of the supercharger capital budget as being marketing. Stuff like the Tesla-owners lounge, with vending machines for snacks etc, should be thought of as pure marketing. Maybe even build some expanded versions of the Tesla lounge that include a mini showroom with a model S or X in them for the really popular superchargers?

Many car companies do short-term things where they have their new model on display in a shopping mall. Thats great... but a lot of the shoppers may have come by bus/train (esp in Europe). The beauty of the supercharger-as-marketing-asset model is that by definition, everyone exposed to that marketing drove there...possibly in an extremely inferior car :D.

Ooooh, pre market already shows some recovery. Never sell the day after earnings. Never.
 
Age-targeted marketing actually is appropriate in this situation, because Tesla’s current car business is essentially just a preliminary R&D operation. If you view the entire freaking business right now as a startup in R&D mode that just happens to already be large relative to other corporations and also happens to have a very pleasant property — being organically cash flow positive — then these moves make a lot more sense. Too bad for those of us who made shorter term bets in the face of rough macro headwinds and skittish markets, but that’s a separate concern than questions about how management should run the company.

Investors are much too short-sighted with Tesla. 2023 earnings are pocket change in the long run. Same with ‘24 and ‘25. It always should come back to discounted cash flows and net present value estimates. In this wide view of the totality of the business plan, Model 3 and Y are nearly irrelevant. IRRELEVANT. Negligible rounding errors. I remember in 2017-2019, when I first began to follow Tesla, how much FUD was around about declining Model S & X sales with the 3 coming onto the scene. Now, most investors barely care about these models except insofar as their roles as brand-leading flagships and test beds for new technologies that are still too expensive and hard to manufacture to make it into the 3 or Y. Still, it took years for people in the investment community to really accept that S&X were imminently going to be a negligible portion of the business and profits even though the arithmetic was pretty simple to do. We have a strong bias for focusing on the known stuff we already have and hyperbolically discounting the future rewards of a long-term strategy.

We need that same kind of mental recalibration for 3&Y now too, considering that, unsurprisingly, people are suffering from similar myopia. Gen 3 is what matters.

Forget for a moment the whole “FSD and other future revenue will accrue long term profits” debate. Another critical part of this blitzscaling-even-at-0%-margins strategy is that every additional vehicle Tesla produces is contributing to improving the entire business to better prepare for the future years that actually matter. Every additional car means more kaizen on the manufacturing line and more data flowing through that shiny new Tesla OS at every stage of the value chain. S3XY cars are primarily for learning and for generating enough free cash flow to fund the investments for Gen 3 and the moonshot AI bets. Any free cash flow they happen to generate beyond this is just a minor bonus.

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How does this feed into not doing something like TV advertisement that’s essentially marketing mostly to older people?

1) They are greatly outnumbered by younger generations

2) In the 2030s and beyond, many of them will be deceased or no longer driving cars

What I care most about from a marketing standpoint is what 10-year olds, who are just starting to be old enough to take interest in cars and technology, are thinking. That is the critical target market. Not adults over 40. I also care about what cars young celebrities and rappers are bragging about driving, and Tesla appears to be winning there too. What are young professional athletes buying? Oh that’s right, Teslas.


As far as I can tell from anecdotal experiences, Tesla is overwhelmingly dominating the interest and desire of kids and young adults with respect to vehicles, at least here in the US. As long as that’s still true, I am not concerned about demand.
Even in rural Scotland little boys point excitedly at passing Teslas. The younger generation already know. They just need the money (and to become driving age:)) My 23 yr son old got his first drive of my M3P the other day. Needless to say his obsession with german hot hatches has evaporated.
 
Even in rural Scotland little boys point excitedly at passing Teslas. The younger generation already know. They just need the money (and to become driving age:)) My 23 yr son old got his first drive of my M3P the other day. Needless to say his obsession with german hot hatches has evaporated.
In my part of England, the pointing & shouting has stopped. No other car has replaced Teslas as aspirational / inspirational (better words than luxury in my opinion). The main reason is that Repetitive Strain Injury & Hoarse Voices would occur if they kept up the shouting & pointing (lots of Teslas).
 
I know long term we're just going to do great and as a very long term hodler, this doesn't phase me much anymore, but damn, sometimes I wonder if I should just sell up everything 2 days before each earnings day to rebuy the day after, I'd have made another fortune by now! (Until the first time I ever tried to actually do this, then we'd be up 30% the day after! 😝)

Cheers to the longs, I think under the present circumstances, that was a pretty good earnings Qtr.
 
What I care most about from a marketing standpoint is what 10-year olds, who are just starting to be old enough to take interest in cars and technology, are thinking. That is the critical target market. Not adults over 40.
What's the average age of new cars buyers, and how is it evolving? It's was 55+ in France in 2020 (and 44 for Tesla buyers), and it keeps getting older.
 
In my part of England, the pointing & shouting has stopped. No other car has replaced Teslas as aspirational / inspirational (better words than luxury in my opinion). The main reason is that Repetitive Strain Injury & Hoarse Voices would occur if they kept up the shouting & pointing (lots of Teslas).
In nearly 3 years of driving an S now, only once did someone comment on it being a "nice car" as they passed and the kids never look either, miserable lot around here I think!
 
What's the average age of new cars buyers, and how is it evolving? It's was 55+ in France in 2020 (and 44 for Tesla buyers), and it keeps getting older.
I'm not surprised, most here in the UK now can barely afford to pay Mortgages & Rents. They can often not afford to fund any sort of retirement provision either, so new cars are pretty far down the list! I get depressed thinking about the current younger generations, how awful life has got for them and how grim their (now very late!) retirements are going to be.

The current average age of a new car buyer in the UK is now 54!
 
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Low-interest financing for qualified customers. Match the FED up for down. @CorneliusXX @unk45 thoughts?

This is already happening in Norway. This is from the financing page after I picked a random Model Y:

The interest rate of 1.99% only applies to vehicles registered and delivered by 30 June 2023. The financing offer is limited and can only be used while stocks last.

Car price NOK 441,844. Equity NOK 154,645. Establishment/and land registration fee NOK 1,730. Installment fee NOK 95, Loan amount including establishment/and land registration fee NOK 288,929, Repayment period 8 years. Floating promotional interest for 3 years b.c. 1.99%, then floating nominal product interest for 5 years b.c. 4.79%. Effective interest rate 3.89%. Cost NOK 48,662. Total to pay for the loan NOK 335,861. Both campaign and product interest are floating and follow normal interest rates throughout the loan period. The interest rates can be changed at the time of payment, if there have been interest rate changes between the time of application and the time of payment. The loan is provided by DNB Bank ASA and Santander Consumer Bank and the car is pledged as security. Reservation regarding final credit approval.


Edit: This is quite recent - was not there when I bought in January. Probably started now in April.
 
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In nearly 3 years of driving an S now, only once did someone comment on it being a "nice car" as they passed and the kids never look either, miserable lot around here I think!

It was the older teens/early twenty-somethings that always surprised me "Nice car Mister!" shouted full volume. Presumably the kids around your way..... (well, at least 3 years ago) must have been very unobservant.
 
The problem is from what little we DO know, take rate isn't growing significantly.

And remains damn near 0 outside of North America.

Which is probably why Elon refused to speak to that # at all just yesterday on the call, and Tesla has historically refused to say anything about it.

Assuming pricing on it will remain unchanged, take rate is also unlikely to change until either capabilities change significantly-- or the nerfing/overregulation of current ones in China and the EU are changed.

Tesla could make a nerfed FSD for Europe. I would upgrade immidiately. Did not pay anything extra for Autopilot when bought a TM3 in january. Did not see the point.

I love the current nerfed basic Autopilot. And would upgrade to nerfed FSD if they enforced hands on the wheel, slow speed trough tight curves, manual verification of lane changes and whatever else I have forgotten. It would still be wildly better than what we have now here in Europe.

If they did this no regulatory problems since it would just be a software upgrade of the current autopilot just like the ones we are already getting.
 
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