Well , what he actually said was it's something they could do, given their unique position to profit from autonomy:
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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
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Well , what he actually said was it's something they could do, given their unique position to profit from autonomy:
It is accurate. There is an example of them doing it. That doesn't preclude them cutting prices for other reasons at different times.
It demonstrates that price cuts do not automatically indeicate lack of demand (although it may).
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
But it's not, since your claimed reason for the cuts didn't actually apply to most of the cuts this year.
(or at ANY of the cuts for 2 out of 4 models they sell but made them at the same time and made more since)
Which were the cuts you specifically gave that as the reason for.
Now adding "Well, sure maybe there were other reasons too" seems an admission your recognize your claim was overly broad...and not a very good objection to someone else who gave a specific reason for the cuts other than your original one that you were trying to refute.
None of this is terribly complicated though.... Tesla keeps scaling output of vehicles. Eventually you run out of additional people, no matter how many WANT your cars, that can afford to pay X dollars for them. When that happens you have two choices:
Cut prices, so you can sell more total cars at a lower-than-X price
or
Reduce (or stop scaling) production so you don't end up with extra cars without enough matching buyers who can afford them.
Tesla has been pretty clear they're going with option 1 and it's weird people keep trying to find excuses to deny that's what they're doing.
I stand corrected. Wasn't aware there was that much inventory right before the January price cuts. Definitely explains why prices are so much lower now.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
I know ... he was boasting. He keeps doing that and it falls on deaf ears. Just like his "greatest asset value increase in history because of FSD" stunt.
In other news ...
TESLA INTO INDIA??
We are missing what this means!! GigaSeoul could export into India without the 100% Tariff as South Korea has a free trade agreement into India. South Korea business & trade Friendly. Also FTAs with US and other strategic countries.
Elon Musk reportedly requested this meeting with the South Korean President and flew to DC for it.
Tesla bypassing difficulty of opening a factory in India (India’s laws will add a tariff to the purchase price if all suppliers parts don’t come from India too. Can’t just open an assembly plant & ship in parts. A GigaFactory in India requires an enormous financial outlay, not only by Tesla, but all Tesla suppliers. Multiple factories would need to be built. Logistics nightmare).
Looks like GigaSeoul would be for the Gen 3. Expect Massive volumes on the Gen 3. Hey, Wall Street can we get a rerate when GigaSeoul is official? That has to increase your forecasts from 6.5M EVs in 2030 (vastly discounted from Tesla’s goal of 20M). Gen 3 Sold in India, now the most populous country in the world is how Tesla gets there. Tesla always steps ahead of us. It was right there, but we didn’t see it. H/T Thanks @kosarimine, great call out!
We are missing what this means!! GigaSeoul could export into India without the 100% Tariff as South Korea has a free trade agreement into India. South Korea business & trade Friendly. Also FTAs with US and other strategic countries.
Elon Musk reportedly requested this meeting with the South Korean President and flew to DC for it.
Tesla bypassing difficulty of opening a factory in India (India’s laws will add a tariff to the purchase price if all suppliers parts don’t come from India too. Can’t just open an assembly plant & ship in parts. A GigaFactory in India requires an enormous financial outlay, not only by Tesla, but all Tesla suppliers. Multiple factories would need to be built. Logistics nightmare).
Looks like GigaSeoul would be for the Gen 3. Expect Massive volumes on the Gen 3. Hey, Wall Street can we get a rerate when GigaSeoul is official? That has to increase your forecasts from 6.5M EVs in 2030 (vastly discounted from Tesla’s goal of 20M). Gen 3 Sold in India, now the most populous country in the world is how Tesla gets there. Tesla always steps ahead of us. It was right there, but we didn’t see it. H/T Thanks @kosarimine, great call out!
I've been watching a youtuber used car salesman for a while now. He's quite honest (I know, right?) in that he can't believe Tesla competitors are not lowering their prices to compete. I believe his frustration (and honesty) stems from a lack of circulation in general which means fewer used cars for him to flip. He recently got on a stream with 4 others in the field to discuss the trends. They're all playing it cautiously with little inventory.
Not sure I have a conclusion here, other than money is tightening and used prices are slowly dropping, but not new prices. Meanwhile parts suppliers are going bankrupt as well. The whole ecosystem is starting to lock up it appears.
- Dismal used vehicle sales from the usual Tax Refund buyers.
- Many dealers had to take a loss on dropping prices on their inventory, so they're more selective.
- Some % Retail buyers can't qualify at the higher interest rates, and car loans are defaulting as prices drop (post bubble).
- Meanwhile, they showed lot after lot of new Ford F-150s and other new vehicles with a markup from the dealer still (not just the lightning, all). So they're not moving either, lots are full.
- They mentioned an auto chain that recently BK'd, possibly this one, but I have a hunch it's just the beginning.
www.yahoo.com
On new vehicles, these inflated prices will really hurt soon IMO. A sale needs to occur but dealerships seem to want to ride it out to recoup losses from low volume. Cybertruck couldn't come at a better time. The Ford competition is well over $100K retail. Their cheapest new Explorer is $60K sticker price on the lot. They keep adding nitrogen and paint protection to all of them trying to create margin from thin air. Many dealerships are on their last breath I believe. And can the OEMs get all the parts needed to build more is just one of my questions - that's a whole other channel collapsing as well.
Not sure I have a conclusion here, other than money is tightening and used prices are slowly dropping, but not new prices. Meanwhile parts suppliers are going bankrupt as well. The whole ecosystem is starting to lock up it appears.
- Dismal used vehicle sales from the usual Tax Refund buyers.
- Many dealers had to take a loss on dropping prices on their inventory, so they're more selective.
- Some % Retail buyers can't qualify at the higher interest rates, and car loans are defaulting as prices drop (post bubble).
- Meanwhile, they showed lot after lot of new Ford F-150s and other new vehicles with a markup from the dealer still (not just the lightning, all). So they're not moving either, lots are full.
- They mentioned an auto chain that recently BK'd, possibly this one, but I have a hunch it's just the beginning.
U.S. Auto Sales chain closes all locations, including in the Augusta area
A chain of used-car dealerships that courts customers with low credit scores has temporarily closed all its locations, including in the Augusta area.
On new vehicles, these inflated prices will really hurt soon IMO. A sale needs to occur but dealerships seem to want to ride it out to recoup losses from low volume. Cybertruck couldn't come at a better time. The Ford competition is well over $100K retail. Their cheapest new Explorer is $60K sticker price on the lot. They keep adding nitrogen and paint protection to all of them trying to create margin from thin air. Many dealerships are on their last breath I believe. And can the OEMs get all the parts needed to build more is just one of my questions - that's a whole other channel collapsing as well.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
No you can't import cars into India without tariffs from any country.
The "cheapest" way is to import "Completely Knockdown Kits" and reassemble them in factories in India. This is what BMW etc do.
ps :
CBU, SKD or CKD- Through which Route did your Imported Vehicle get in?
Here's the lowdown on Completely Built-Up Unit (CBU), Semi-Knocked Down (SKD) and Completely Knocked Down (CKD)- the only available legal methods of importing any vehicle in India.
www.carandbike.com
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bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
If true, this would be an absolute BOSS move. The labor force is excellent and reasonably priced (but not China or MX level cheap). The supply chains are fantastic and anything not local can probably be brought in from the mature China supply chain until the local one is built up.
EDIT - per post by @EVNow I did some further digging, and the above does not appear to be true.
Reuters article here has a good summary (shocking, I know):
/cloudfront-us-east-2.images.arcpublishing.com/reuters/HP4BEJP4GJOHNI5S2LMALZMFJY.jpg)
India raises tax on imported cars, motorbikes, including EVs
India on Wednesday said it will raise taxes on imported cars and motorbikes, including electric vehicles (EVs), as it seeks to boost local manufacturing in line with Prime Minister Narendra Modi's "Make in India" campaign ahead of elections in 2024.
www.reuters.com
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The price cuts by Tesla deliver a huge blow to Mobileye stock.
www.marketwatch.com
Mobileye Stock Tanks After Earnings. Blame Tesla.
Self-driving-technology firm Mobileye reported strong first-quarter earnings. But its disappointing outlook was a problem.
www.marketwatch.com
BYD profit falls 43.5 per cent amid car-market price war
The carmaker reported that net profit fell to 4.13 billion yuan (US$596.28 million) in the first quarter, down from 7.3 billion yuan in the fourth quarter as potential buyers anticipated bigger price cuts.
www.scmp.com
Lots of weird, annoying mis-information in this post.
First. Inventory is an inevitable consequence of increased production. Unless you can manage zero logistics, it is going to happen.
Second, the Model Y is not selling for $43k. It is selling for $50k and some people will be able to claim $7,500 off their taxes THIS TIME NEXT YEAR. It is a subtle but significant difference.
Finally, the Model Y was not selling for $66k this time last year, that bump didn’t happen until June. When they increased the price to $66k there was a 6-9 month waiting list for cars, so the majority of cars sold in 2022 were sold at less than that peak price with only a few being sold in December and January at that peak price.
Let that sink in. That $66k price-tag reduced demand so much, it caused a 6+ month waiting list to turn into unsold inventory almost instantly. That price was never sustainable.
Actually, isn't this just like the banking situation only for cars?I've been watching a youtuber used car salesman for a while now. He's quite honest (I know, right?) in that he can't believe Tesla competitors are not lowering their prices to compete. I believe his frustration (and honesty) stems from a lack of circulation in general which means fewer used cars for him to flip. He recently got on a stream with 4 others in the field to discuss the trends. They're all playing it cautiously with little inventory.
Not sure I have a conclusion here, other than money is tightening and used prices are slowly dropping, but not new prices. Meanwhile parts suppliers are going bankrupt as well. The whole ecosystem is starting to lock up it appears.
- Dismal used vehicle sales from the usual Tax Refund buyers.
- Many dealers had to take a loss on dropping prices on their inventory, so they're more selective.
- Some % Retail buyers can't qualify at the higher interest rates, and car loans are defaulting as prices drop (post bubble).
- Meanwhile, they showed lot after lot of new Ford F-150s and other new vehicles with a markup from the dealer still (not just the lightning, all). So they're not moving either, lots are full.
- They mentioned an auto chain that recently BK'd, possibly this one, but I have a hunch it's just the beginning.
U.S. Auto Sales chain closes all locations, including in the Augusta area
A chain of used-car dealerships that courts customers with low credit scores has temporarily closed all its locations, including in the Augusta area.
On new vehicles, these inflated prices will really hurt soon IMO. A sale needs to occur but dealerships seem to want to ride it out to recoup losses from low volume. Cybertruck couldn't come at a better time. The Ford competition is well over $100K retail. Their cheapest new Explorer is $60K sticker price on the lot. They keep adding nitrogen and paint protection to all of them trying to create margin from thin air. Many dealerships are on their last breath I believe. And can the OEMs get all the parts needed to build more is just one of my questions - that's a whole other channel collapsing as well.
USA Auto is the "Bank" lending to car buyers (anyone) during peak inflation.
But these OLDER cars are breaking down AND the market softened. They have a choice, either "Fix the car, or pay the bill?" They can't afford both. So they stop paying and the loan defaults. It's a predatory lender, but they're all hurting I'm sure. I wonder how this might affect actual Banks behind all this?
How resilient are the actual banks against a collapsing auto industry as we know it? And aren't car loans a key source of revenue for the biggest OEMs? Are they afraid to drop prices as it could risk people returning their vehicles? Something just out of warranty but an active loan, vehicle fails (climate change, lol), they can't sell it for dirt (if new prices drop) and decide to walk away, screw the banks. Maybe.
Buckminster
Well-Known Member
For those interested in discussions of the future:
Utopia
Some won't agree, but if all goes well, and there is money for people to purchase Teslas or robotaxi rides then the cash will most likely come from Universal Basic Income. Probably not paid in Bitcoin or Dogecoin. Maybe the X app will control our world from ordering a Robotaxi or interfacing with a subservient AI like TruthGPT & X.AI. With Tesla Optimus Sub-Prime Robot doing the heavy lifting and you are lucky enough to have a job - will most be working from home? Maybe fly around the world on Elon's jet or Boring Company Hyperloop?
Less Utopian
For Ready Play One fans; Tesla VR / AR Apple glasses will likely be unveiled on the 5th of June.
Dystopian
Will climate be under control? Perhaps worse, 50% of AI experts think there is a 10%+ chance that AI will exterminate us. CanAI be controlled via The Neuralink Master Thread?
Utopia
Some won't agree, but if all goes well, and there is money for people to purchase Teslas or robotaxi rides then the cash will most likely come from Universal Basic Income. Probably not paid in Bitcoin or Dogecoin. Maybe the X app will control our world from ordering a Robotaxi or interfacing with a subservient AI like TruthGPT & X.AI. With Tesla Optimus Sub-Prime Robot doing the heavy lifting and you are lucky enough to have a job - will most be working from home? Maybe fly around the world on Elon's jet or Boring Company Hyperloop?
Less Utopian
For Ready Play One fans; Tesla VR / AR Apple glasses will likely be unveiled on the 5th of June.
Dystopian
Will climate be under control? Perhaps worse, 50% of AI experts think there is a 10%+ chance that AI will exterminate us. CanAI be controlled via The Neuralink Master Thread?
Etna
Member
Speculating a bit about Elon following Modi and meeting Yoon in the span of two weeks.
A Gigafactory in South Korea may also be shipping third generation platform knockdown kits to India as a solution to the "make in India" requirement for market access, since setting up a Gigafactory in India as a first step was recently deemed a non-starter by Tesla. An assembly facility importing CKD within a free trade area, and Indian steel, solves it.
A Gigafactory in South Korea may also be shipping third generation platform knockdown kits to India as a solution to the "make in India" requirement for market access, since setting up a Gigafactory in India as a first step was recently deemed a non-starter by Tesla. An assembly facility importing CKD within a free trade area, and Indian steel, solves it.
Given the rise of the EV revolution, I have been wondering what could any legacy automaker actually do to TRY to ensure their survival (besides go bankrupt and be bailed out by a government entity...only to go bankrupt again). Part of me thinks they just won't be able to make the leap in certain areas and the best they can do would be some form of "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em" strategy. The "'em" in this case would likely be Tesla or perhaps one of the Chinese OEMs (basically, BYD as of today).
It would take eating some crow, but I think the first "legacy" player to indicate they are going to "partner" with Tesla will ultimately be the first to have a CHANCE at long term survival. This "partnership" would basically have Tesla act as a supplier to the Legacy entity. Minimally, approach Tesla about equipping their cars (i.e. in the U.S.) with the North American plug standard and get access to all superchargers, or facilitate implementations of the magic jack, etc. Maybe tesla starts licensing autopilot and FSD (with subscription dollars all going to Tesla of course). Eventually, Tesla is supplying components like batteries to other OEMs or even design/build services (like Magna). I'm sure Tesla has an endless list of other potentially higher profit priorities, but it is yet another untapped market for them. Regardless, I think it may be the only chance for legacy OEMS and it will be first come, first serve. GM? Ford? Toyota? Subaru? You guys listening? Your move.
It would take eating some crow, but I think the first "legacy" player to indicate they are going to "partner" with Tesla will ultimately be the first to have a CHANCE at long term survival. This "partnership" would basically have Tesla act as a supplier to the Legacy entity. Minimally, approach Tesla about equipping their cars (i.e. in the U.S.) with the North American plug standard and get access to all superchargers, or facilitate implementations of the magic jack, etc. Maybe tesla starts licensing autopilot and FSD (with subscription dollars all going to Tesla of course). Eventually, Tesla is supplying components like batteries to other OEMs or even design/build services (like Magna). I'm sure Tesla has an endless list of other potentially higher profit priorities, but it is yet another untapped market for them. Regardless, I think it may be the only chance for legacy OEMS and it will be first come, first serve. GM? Ford? Toyota? Subaru? You guys listening? Your move.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
The price cuts by Tesla deliver a huge blow to Mobileye stock.
Mobileye Stock Tanks After Earnings. Blame Tesla.
Self-driving-technology firm Mobileye reported strong first-quarter earnings. But its disappointing outlook was a problem.
Had to LOL at this. How can such blatantly ignorant folks write stories ?
The unnamed EV OEM is most likely Tesla. The main SuperVision customer likely isn’t Tesla. Mobileye didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment.
How EV pricing can affect self-driving cars is an unexpected, unwelcome surprise for investors.
ps : Just to explain - SuperVision customers of MobilEye are EV competitors of Tesla like Zeekr.
lafrisbee
Active Member
Without the context of production % what you want us to dwell on has little worth.
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