Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Knightshade]

It sounds like Panasonic's multi-tab design wasn't performing as well as Tesla/Panasonic wanted it to, so they are making changes.

But, what Panasonic is doing with their 4680 design and production has nothing to do with how Tesla is doing on the production ramp of their own 4680 cells.

Also if the previous story about Tesla planning to source 4680 from both Panasonic and LG (in addition the their own) is accurate, they'll presumably still have LG supply available.

Looks like LG didn't run into whatever issues Panasonic did, since they began mass producing 4680 in March according to this:

LG Energy Solutions begins mass production of 4680 batteries.

LG Energy Solution has begun full-scale production of the 4680 battery, the next-generation battery for electric vehicles. The company aims to stay ahead of the competition in 4680 battery technology, with mass production expected by the end of the year.

www.pickool.net

 

[GhostSkater]

And it's a new record at 8:50, faster even than Nio with battery swap

From the few minutes I watched Bjorn was doing sub 10 minutes charging stops to ride on the 250 kW wave

 

[GhostSkater]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1656663259905400834

 

[JRP3]

Sure it does.

How so? Panasonic is not using DBE, which is the holdup for Tesla. Winding a larger cell is not new technology, the only thing new for Panasonic is applying extra tabs which is also different than what Tesla is doing with tabless.

 

[Rarity]

How so? Panasonic is not using DBE, which is the holdup for Tesla. Winding a larger cell is not new technology, the only thing new for Panasonic is applying extra tabs which is also different than what Tesla is doing with tabless.

Our insight into what Panasonic is doing is limited. Caution in drawing conclusions is warranted.

 

[insaneoctane]

It sounds like Panasonic's multi-tab design wasn't performing as well as Tesla/Panasonic wanted it to, so they are making changes.

But, what Panasonic is doing with their 4680 design and production has nothing to do with how Tesla is doing on the production ramp of their own 4680 cells.

Anybody know if Panasonic 4680 is using DBE?

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1656663259905400834

Hmm "Level 3 EVSE" would suggest 3-phase AC. It wasn't really implemented in J1772. Maybe they want to have it for testing for other markets with proper electricity.

SAE J1772 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[nativewolf]

Anybody know if Panasonic 4680 is using DBE?

Not unless I missed something which is very possible

 

[EnzoXYZ]

Also if the previous story about Tesla planning to source 4680 from both Panasonic and LG (in addition the their own) is accurate, they'll presumably still have LG supply available.

Looks like LG didn't run into whatever issues Panasonic did, since they began mass producing 4680 in March according to this:

LG Energy Solutions begins mass production of 4680 batteries.

LG Energy Solution has begun full-scale production of the 4680 battery, the next-generation battery for electric vehicles. The company aims to stay ahead of the competition in 4680 battery technology, with mass production expected by the end of the year.

www.pickool.net

IMO at every step Panasonic is Tesla's handicap regarding battery cell supply. I can't help but to think this is a purposeful delay. Its a decade+ now that Panasonic got the green light from Tesla to invest and produce as many cells as humanly possible yet it feels like Panasonic has the same executive team running Toyota. Delay delay and more delay to the point Tesla has to produce inhouse and contract Chinese & Korean suppliers. I can't help but to feel Japan is giving up on their automotive dominance unknowingly.

 

[MP3Mike]

Hmm "Level 3 EVSE" would suggest 3-phase AC. It wasn't really implemented in J1772. Maybe they want to have it for testing for other markets with proper electricity.

SAE J1772 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yeah, but 199 of them for testing? That seems excessive. It is probably just an error in the permit description.

Just like the weird "208 EVSE" Really 208? Or do they mean EVSEs with a voltage of 208? (Which would be common for commercial properties.)

 

[keydiver]

Yeah, but 199 of them for testing? That seems excessive. It is probably just an error in the permit description.

Employee charging? That would be my guess. Level 2 would make more sense. Nice employment perk.

 

[M|S|M MYP]

Employee charging? That would be my guess. Level 2 would make more sense. Nice employment perk.

New Perk: Work at a certain level at Tesla, drive a company car for free or $1/month

 

[JRP3]

Is Tesla using dbe yet?

Yes, on the anode for sure, maybe not yet on the cathode. DBE yeilds have been the main reason for delays.

 

[Optimeer]

Also if the previous story about Tesla planning to source 4680 from both Panasonic and LG (in addition the their own) is accurate, they'll presumably still have LG supply available.

Looks like LG didn't run into whatever issues Panasonic did, since they began mass producing 4680 in March according to this:

LG Energy Solutions begins mass production of 4680 batteries.

LG Energy Solution has begun full-scale production of the 4680 battery, the next-generation battery for electric vehicles. The company aims to stay ahead of the competition in 4680 battery technology, with mass production expected by the end of the year.

www.pickool.net

I think we have limited insight in how LG Energy is doing regarding the 4680 Batteries. In the article you quoted it is also stated that Tesla is sourcing 4680 batteries from Panasonic, which is not true (for now).

LG Energy's plan, announced on June 13, 2022, was to build a plant for 580 mio Won at the Ochang plant no.2 in South Korea to produce 9 GWh per year of 4680 batteries, with planned production start in 2nd half of 2023.

I didn't found any further commitment from LG Energy to invest in 4680 battery production capacity.

Every GWh of 4680 batteries from LG Energy, from Panasonic or from Samsung will be a nice extra in the next few years, nothing more. It looks it was wise from Tesla to vertically integrate into battery production.

 

[Rarity]

IMO at every step Panasonic is Tesla's handicap regarding battery cell supply. I can't help but to think this is a purposeful delay. Its a decade+ now that Panasonic got the green light from Tesla to invest and produce as many cells as humanly possible yet it feels like Panasonic has the same executive team running Toyota. Delay delay and more delay to the point Tesla has to produce inhouse and contract Chinese & Korean suppliers. I can't help but to feel Japan is giving up on their automotive dominance unknowingly.

We have to read between the lines on Panasonic. They seem to be very conservative culturally. And I recall that ramping the Nevada gigafactory was very rocky for them in terms of ROI and staffing (both locally and from Japan). There was a time where it seemed that the relationship with Tesla became less warm. Lastly, they seemed uncomfortable relying on a single customer to such a high degree.

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

Is Panasonic supplying Toyota? I can’t imagine how Toyota plans 1.5M 15M EVs in 3 years!? ..per ‘the street’ article a few hrs ago. That number seems absurd unless they are making razor EV scooters or something small

Toyota is ambitious based on where they are today in EV volume. That’s probably more than what Mary is doing even

 

[Mengy]

IMO at every step Panasonic is Tesla's handicap regarding battery cell supply. I can't help but to think this is a purposeful delay. Its a decade+ now that Panasonic got the green light from Tesla to invest and produce as many cells as humanly possible yet it feels like Panasonic has the same executive team running Toyota. Delay delay and more delay to the point Tesla has to produce inhouse and contract Chinese & Korean suppliers. I can't help but to feel Japan is giving up on their automotive dominance unknowingly.

I've often felt this way too. In fact I've often wondered if Panasonic's sluggishness was the main catalyst for Tesla to start making their own batteries. If Panasonic had moved much faster I don't think Tesla would have bothered making their own cells.

 

[Drumheller]

Is Panasonic supplying Toyota? I can’t imagine how Toyota plans 15M EVs in 3 years!? ..per ‘the street’ article a few hrs ago. That number seems absurd unless they are making razor EV scooters or something small
View attachment 936745
Toyota is ambitious based on where they are today in EV volume. That’s probably more than what Mary is doing even

You missed the decimal.

And I doubt Toyota will have 1.5M EVs in 3 years.

 

[2daMoon]

We have to read between the lines on Panasonic. They seem to be very conservative culturally. And I recall that ramping the Nevada gigafactory was very rocky for them in terms of ROI and staffing (both locally and from Japan). There was a time where it seemed that the relationship with Tesla became less warm. Lastly, they seemed uncomfortable relying on a single customer to such a high degree.

Exactly.

I suspect that Panasonic is trying to use much of their existing tech to deliver the 4680 form factor.

So, not the "Tesla tabless" but their attempt with multiple tabs. Probably not dry processes either, in an attempt to use existing production line technology scaled to fit a 4680 package.

Hence the delay for "improving performance" as they quickly found that taking shortcuts didn't meet the spec for the customer. So, it will take more time now that they have demonstrated to themselves that they will have to step it up to provide reasonable/comparable performance that their customer expects.

 

[Fairchild]

A thought to ponder.
"It's time in the market, not timing the market." As the old adage goes. Of course, it's true, but there are exceptions. Hey, even a dead clock tells the correct time twice day.

For those of you who may be less conventional, and I understand there are those who aren't, there is a great place to relatively safely park money and make money, while the stock market continues to weeble-wobble its way through the year or TSLA and others decide to take off.

I watched TSLA stagger and fall from $400 a share to $230 in late '22. I finally woke up and replaced my TSLA shares with some profiting lithium for a while until it petered out. Months ago, I began to hunt for a safer place in this volatile market.

An option in dealing with a volatile market is to move into cash, but that's no fun. And CDs at 4% tie you your money up for lengthy periods of time and don't provide much entertainment either.

Searching for a safe place to park $$?? I stumbled upon a rather productive ETF, JP Morgan NASDAQ EQUITY PREMIUM INCOME ETD (JEPQ), where the managers know a hell of a lot more than I do about puts and calls and from what I see, have been doing quite well - YTD (13.04% YTD).
DIVIDEND
Here is the kicker!! The JEPQ fund ALSO pays a 12.21% annual dividend on a monthly basis. It sure is more fun to get a $10,000 deposit monthly, than it is to watch TSLA and others weeble-wobble, and it is a lot less stressful, as well. Not for everyone, because there are still those who enjoy the old adage, and the stress that goes with it. But this old boy enjoys a roughly 24% per annum, without the hoopla. A great place to park cash. Unlike CDs and bonds, it's nice to have the ability to trade in and out on a daily basis as well.

When TSLA decides to outdo 24%, I guess I will be ready to jump back in. I keep one (1) share of TSLA just to remind me of what I am NOT MISSING.

And for those days when TSLA tumbles and screams, don't forget TSLQ which is the inverse or TSLA and TSLL, which we call TESLA TURBO (moves at 1.5 X the rate of TSLA). Remember, that TURBO moves down at 1.5X as well, so if you know what you are doing and are wearing your big boy pants its a fun place to play and make some cash.

I found a great place to keep up with TSLA and the market on a daily basis that I enjoy and I share. It Rey Jay's Trades

I know there are many like it, but it gives me a good market picture in the shortest period of time.

TSLA to the MOON! SOME DAY SOON?