Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Knightshade]

I really don't get the point; if you are using FSD properly, then hands are on the wheel and foot is ready to intervene. Driver keeps car, and environment, safe via disengagement. If Dan complains, point him to the usage instructions.

"Dan, it's Level 2. FSD Beta is safe because I'm safe."

What makes that so funny is the one obvious error made (blowing the stop sign) only has 2 possible explanations- (though Ross has already made up 2 other ones directly contradicted by the footage).

1 is FSD just blew the stop sign... (which DOES happen, many have reported it at least once in the FSD forums- I had it happen once in fact- though it's rare)
or
1 is Ross was unintentionally pressing the accelerator for no reason leading up to the sign and by the time he stopped the car was doing 34 mph and AT the sign so could not stop for it.

And that second one is FSD beta being unsafe because ross was unsafe (which is of course entirely Ross to blame if true- but he keeps trying to make up other excuses that don't hold up)


Anyway, further discussion already happening in multiple other places better suited like:

Autonomous Car Progress

Cruise is doing more than 1000 driverless rides per day! Although I think that number deserves some context. Most Cruise rides are at night and at low speeds. The geofence in Austin and Phoenix is tiny and only at night. So Cruise is spamming more rides but in a small ODD.

teslamotorsclub.com

or

FSD discussion

This seems bad

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

1 is Ross was unintentionally pressing the accelerator for no reason leading up to the sign and by the time he stopped the car was doing 34 mph and AT the sign so could not stop for it.

Potentially, depending on pedal sensitivity. In my Kona on cruise control, I've caught myself doing that once. When in cruise I cover the accelerator to make it consistent with not being in cruise. (Unless I anticipate a specific need to brake.)

It would be worth somebody asking where his foot is when he uses TACC/AP/FSD.

 

[Rarity]

SpaceX is not getting into chip manufacturing. Chip fabs cost tens of billions. That is a bridge too far - even for Musk.

Looks like they want to do wafer processing and chip packaging in-house. That is relatively low grade work that most companies contract out.

Makes sense given a certain scale.

Thank you for this. I do see a dozen or so "IC packaging" manufacturing and design jobs listed on SpaceX's web site. In comparison, there is only one IC packaging design job for Dojo on Tesla's web site (although it covers both a junior and senior role).

 

[DarthPierce]

Thank you for this. I do see a dozen or so "IC packaging" manufacturing and design jobs listed on SpaceX's web site. In comparison, there is only one IC packaging design job for Dojo on Tesla's web site (although it covers both a junior and senior role).

Also, space ICs require special packaging. Vacuum, extreme vibration, and extreme temperature swings make for unique problems that a ground based supercomputer doesn't face.

 

[Artful Dodger]

I really don't get the point; if you are using FSD properly, then hands are on the wheel and foot is ready to intervene. Driver keeps car, and environment, safe via disengagement. If Dan complains, point him to the usage instructions.

"Dan, it's Level 2. FSD Beta is safe because I'm safe."

Well, as expected, Dan0 did have at least one pungit sticky point on that drive: a hidden stop sign in a 35 mph zone with the stop line placed 30 feet beyond the location of the Stop sign. Dan sets (or at least matches) a personal pest FUD-score of a perfect 5-lies-in-5-sentences as he cherry picks a seeming problem.

Of course, James Stephensen to the rescue with this video, where he shows that:

1. Ross Gerber had his foot on the accelerator pedal (FSD won't brake or slow given that human imput)
2. Ross didn't see the Stop sign until very late (Dan0 doubtless chose this route to maximize chance of human error)
3. FSD put up the message on screen "Stopping for Stop Sign"
4. Car did not run the Stop sign, it stopped at the Stop line which is the proper place to stop, not at the Sign
5. Ross panicked when he saw the Stop sign, then jammed on the brakes for a jarring hard stop.
6. If he had let FSD Beta drive the same intersection, it would have been safer and much smoother.
7. Ross was talking to Dan0 too much and not paying enough attention to the road (distracted driver)

Did Tesla FSD Try To Kill Dan O'Dowd and Ross Gerber?! | James Stephenson (w/o little rat dog)

Dan O'Dowd further demonstrates his willingness to exaggerate and twist facts to support his ever-shrinking hold on Technical reality. Don't expect a link to his garbage tweet, you will find better in the alley behind any TSLAQ crack house.

Cheers to the Autopilot Team! (who also let sleeping dogs lie).

 

[MikeC]

I’m starting to be concerned this fight with Zuckerberg might actually happen. I’m sorry but Elon does dumb things in the spring/summer. Pedo guy, funding secured, Twitter purchase all started around this time of year.

Feels like watching the Twitter saga unfold tweet by tweet: oh, that’s kinda funny -> oh, he’s serious -> but he wouldn’t really do it right -> omg he did it.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1672623359387918336

 

[30seconds]

Well, as expected, Dan0 did have at least one pungit sticky point on that drive: a hidden stop sign in a 35 mph zone with the stop line placed 30 feet beyond the location of the Stop sign. Dan sets (or at least matches) a personal pest FUD-score of a perfect 5-lies-in-5-sentences as he cherry picks a seeming problem.

Of course, James Stephensen to the rescue with this video, where he shows that:

1. Ross Gerber had his foot on the accelerator pedal (FSD won't brake or slow given that human imput)
2. Ross didn't see the Stop sign until very late (Dan0 doubtless chose this route to maximize chance of human error)
3. FSD put up the message on screen "Stopping for Stop Sign"
4. Car did not run the Stop sign, it stopped at the Stop line which is the proper place to stop, not at the Sign
5. Ross panicked when he saw the Stop sign, then jammed on the brakes for a jarring hard stop.
6. If he had let FSD Beta drive the same intersection, it would have been safer and much smoother.
7. Ross was talking to Dan0 too much and not paying enough attention to the road (distracted driver)

Did Tesla FSD Try To Kill Dan O'Dowd and Ross Gerber?! | James Stephenson (w/o little rat dog)

Dan O'Dowd further demonstrates his willingness to exaggerate and twist facts to support his ever-shrinking hold on Technical reality. Don't expect a link to his garbage tweet, you will find better in the alley behind any TSLAQ crack house.

Cheers to the Autopilot Team! (who also let sleeping dogs lie).

It was a miss. The car blew through the stop sign. FSD is still a work in progress, especially on surface streets.

 

[InDaClub]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1672376711835447298

Con Edison, New York City’s major energy company, is all set to launch the city’s largest battery system. This comes just in time for the summer season when the demand for electricity is high due to the use of air conditioners and fans.

The battery system is located in a substation in the Fox Hills area of Staten Island. It can store up to 7.5 million watts of electricity and can supply this power to customers for four hours. This will help reduce the pressure on the city’s power system during peak demand times, which are usually late afternoons and evenings in the summer.

Matthew Ketschke, the president of Con Edison, said that the company is using batteries to make sure that the city’s power supply remains reliable. He also said that these large batteries will help the city use more clean, renewable power and reduce the use of carbon, making the announcement this week at the NYC Solar and Storage Summit in Manhattan.

The battery system will be charged at night when the demand for power is low and electricity is cheaper. It can store enough electricity to charge 1.5 million cell phones.

Besides using the battery system to keep the power supply reliable, Con Edison will also sell electricity from the system to the state’s energy market. This will help the company make money that will benefit its customers.

The battery system is made up of 11 large batteries made by Tesla known as Megapacks. Each Megapack has 19 smaller batteries inside it, and each of these has its own inverter. The Fire Department of New York’s recent safety review of the system saw the battery system pass all checks. Megapacks are part of Tesla’s booming energy storage business. Powerwalls are the smaller, consumer version of Megapacks.

 

[Artful Dodger]

It was a miss. The car blew through the stop sign. FSD is still a work in progress, especially on surface streets.

Did you even watch the video? Ross had his foot on the accelerator, you can see it in the frame. FSD won't Stop while the human driver is telling it to Go.

2nd, it DID NOT blow through. Did you see where the stop line was? It doesn't matter where the sign is planted. If you can't spare the time to watch the video, we don't have too much to discuss.

Dan O'Down lied with every single point he tried to make. You, however, can still watch James' video...

Recommended.

 

[Knightshade]

Did you even watch the video? Ross had his foot on the accelerator, you can see it in the frame. FSD won't Stop while the human driver is telling it to Go.

That's true.

But he took his foot away from the accelerator before the sign (and certainly before the line)-- which is also visible and in frame.

In fact here's such a frame- with both sign and stop line visible in frame too-- but no "stopping for stop sign" message on the dash.

Now here's a shot just a half second later- when the FSD stopping for sign message finally DOES appear... the car is still going 36 mph, Ross had already moved away from the accelerator a second earlier, and FSD could not physically have stopped in time for the stop line (stopping distance at that speed, if you SLAM on the brake with 0 reaction time, is about 62 feet-- and FSDb generally does not slam the brakes for normal stop signs)

Again there are many owners running FSDb who have had their car indeed blow a stop sign, including on recent versions.

It is rare but it absolutely happens. Likewise some have it "stop" but do so well past (or sometimes well too far before) the actual line.

It's certainly possible Ross made it worse by unintentionally pressing the accelerator BEFORE the system began responding to the stop sign- but he had ceased doing so already by the time the system put up the "stopping for stop sign" message.

(Ross then compounded his error by making up 2 different excuses for what happened, both of which the footage directly contradict)

And I'd again encourage this discussion to go where it belongs, I posted 2 links for that earlier.

 

[navguy12]

Potentially, depending on pedal sensitivity. In my Kona on cruise control, I've caught myself doing that once. When in cruise I cover the accelerator to make it consistent with not being in cruise. (Unless I anticipate a specific need to brake.)

It would be worth somebody asking where his foot is when he uses TACC/AP/FSD.

TACC/AP: if nobody is behind me, I rest my right foot on the floor as per the past almost five decades worth of experience with “dumb” cruise control. If any vehicle is within about three seconds (of current travel speed/time) of my rear bumper, I must rest my foot on the accelerator pedal to be able to catch a PB episode before it becomes catastrophic.

 

[SOULPEDL]

That's true.

But he took his foot away from the accelerator before the sign (and certainly before the line)-- which is also visible and in frame.

In fact here's such a frame- with both sign and stop line visible in frame too-- but no "stopping for stop sign" message on the dash.

View attachment 950494


Now here's a shot just a half second later- when the FSD stopping for sign message finally DOES appear... the car is still going 36 mph, Ross had already moved away from the accelerator a second earlier, and FSD could not physically have stopped in time for the stop line (stopping distance at that speed, if you SLAM on the brake with 0 reaction time, is about 62 feet-- and FSDb generally does not slam the brakes for normal stop signs)

View attachment 950496


Again there are many owners running FSDb who have had their car indeed blow a stop sign, including on recent versions.

It is rare but it absolutely happens. Likewise some have it "stop" but do so well past (or sometimes well too far before) the actual line.

It's certainly possible Ross made it worse by unintentionally pressing the accelerator BEFORE the system began responding to the stop sign- but he had ceased doing so already by the time the system put up the "stopping for stop sign" message.

(Ross then compounded his error by making up 2 different excuses for what happened, both of which the footage directly contradict)

And I'd again encourage this discussion to go where it belongs, I posted 2 links for that earlier.

True that. Ongoing, we have a stop sign I just blew through on the latest fsd. Different scenario difficult to see last second. But if any other cars are present, its fine. No worry here, they'll get to it on dojo. Meanwhile, just pay attention when you really should.

 

[maxhelm]

All these debates about FSD & Ross aren't necessary. Ross should've repeated the same route after it happened for confirmation with less variables - ie. don't hover/step on accelerator. Then none of these back & forth will be needed!

 

[JRP3]

Ross Gerber had his foot on the accelerator pedal (FSD won't brake or slow given that human imput)

Nope, in addition to the pics Knightshade posted this one is even later and his foot is not near the accelerator pedal and the vehicle is still showing the blue path forward and doing 35mph.

 

[Singuy]

That's true.

But he took his foot away from the accelerator before the sign (and certainly before the line)-- which is also visible and in frame.

In fact here's such a frame- with both sign and stop line visible in frame too-- but no "stopping for stop sign" message on the dash.

View attachment 950494


Now here's a shot just a half second later- when the FSD stopping for sign message finally DOES appear... the car is still going 36 mph, Ross had already moved away from the accelerator a second earlier, and FSD could not physically have stopped in time for the stop line (stopping distance at that speed, if you SLAM on the brake with 0 reaction time, is about 62 feet-- and FSDb generally does not slam the brakes for normal stop signs)

View attachment 950496


Again there are many owners running FSDb who have had their car indeed blow a stop sign, including on recent versions.

It is rare but it absolutely happens. Likewise some have it "stop" but do so well past (or sometimes well too far before) the actual line.

It's certainly possible Ross made it worse by unintentionally pressing the accelerator BEFORE the system began responding to the stop sign- but he had ceased doing so already by the time the system put up the "stopping for stop sign" message.

(Ross then compounded his error by making up 2 different excuses for what happened, both of which the footage directly contradict)

And I'd again encourage this discussion to go where it belongs, I posted 2 links for that earlier.

Seems like this was a case of "huh why is my car slowing down? let me press on the accelerator to override the phantom slowing" but probably because map data knows there's a stop sign coming up. Ross just pressed on the accelerator until it's too late for the system to automatically stop at the stop sign.

 

[JRP3]

Seems like this was a case of "huh why is my car slowing down? let me press on the accelerator to override the phantom slowing" but probably because map data knows there's a stop sign coming up. Ross just pressed on the accelerator until it's too late for the system to automatically stop at the stop sign.

Doesn't look like it.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1672430939178237953

 

[Singuy]

Doesn't look like it.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1672430939178237953

Okay, I'm gonna give this the benefit of the doubt that the accelerator wasn't pressed and FSD f-ed up here. Oh well..if FSDb didn't f up all the time then it would be ready wouldn't it?

Dan is pretty good at picking routes where FSD will safety critical f-up...he should work for Tesla's autopilot team vs on twitter not being useful.

 

[insaneoctane]

Lots of weekend talk about this Ross Gerber video. Sorry, but no one can frame by frame that video to determine if he was actually pushing the accelerator. Once his foot moves away from the accelerator, presumably to the brake, you can conclude that he no longer could be pressing the accelerator. Due to phantom braking and one-pedal driving, I keep my right foot near touching the accelerator during AP/FSD use. The video only confirms that when his foot is visible on the accelerator, that he might be applying the pedal. You also can conclude he is not pressing the brake. I would love Tesla to dig into the vehicle data and either refute any incorrect statements, or learn from the incident, if applicable.

I do know that Dan O'Down is not trustworthy.

 

[Mengy]

I think we all can agree that:

1) FSD is getting better over time.
2) FSD is still not ready for Robotaxi's yet.

The trend of progress is still very promising.

 

[2daMoon]

I don't follow the FSD stuff too closely, but I'm sure that before lambasting Tesla, a stand-up guy like Dan O'Dull performed due diligence and came back to that intersection with Ross driving a vehicle using his system.

Then, posted a video demonstrating how it was able to see and handle the hidden stop sign without a hitch, right?

Right?
​

/s