Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[2daMoon]

You can define it anyway you want, along with everyone else here. Discussion of such, though, becomes impossible when nobody actually agrees on the definition.

I acknowledged the usefulness for people in my very first post and I didn’t say you (specifically) were speculating.

hatchback

hăch′băk″

noun​

1. A rear door on certain automobiles that opens upward.
2. A compact automobile having such a door.
3. A car with a sloping, hinged rear door that opens upwards.

I think this covers S, X, and Y. As well as SUVs in general.

It is a term with a broad application for a vehicle style with high utility access at the rear.

This is why Tesla makes 3 of 4 models as hatchbacks. Then, makes the M3 for those who never want to be seen in a hatchback and those who like a sporty sedan.

 

[gene]

This is a very informative and worthwhile podcast of an interview with JB Straubel

Building a Better Battery Supply Chain with JB Straubel and Aimee Boulanger | Climate One

Batteries are a critical part of the transition away from fossil fuels. From electric vehicles to grid scale storage for wind and solar, demand for batteries is expected to grow 500% by 2030. In order to meet that demand, we’re going to need a lot more batteries. And while companies like JB...

www.climateone.org

 

[JoRoMo]

hatchback

hăch′băk″

noun​

1. A rear door on certain automobiles that opens upward.
2. A compact automobile having such a door.
3. A car with a sloping, hinged rear door that opens upwards.

I think this covers S, X, and Y. As well as SUVs in general.

It is a term with a broad application for a vehicle style with high utility access at the rear.

This is why Tesla makes 3 of 4 models as hatchbacks. Then, makes the M3 for those who never want to be seen in a hatchback and those who like a sporty sedan.

Bard:

 

[2daMoon]

Bard:
View attachment 960438

Oh I agree. It is a luxury sedan...

which also happens to have a hatch on the back and seats that fold down to accommodate larger items.

 

[EQC_]

Big news. The United States has proposed raising vehicle fuel economy standards to 58 miles per gallon by 2032.

What does this mean for Hybrids?

Not much...although maybe a few manufacturers would be motivated to hybridize more of their ICE offerings.

This 58 mpg target is based on the CAFE standard (Corporate Average Fuel Economy), not the EPA figures that show up on window stickers. The CAFE calculation is not consumer-facing, and rates individual vehicle MPG's notably higher than the EPA rating we're used to seeing. Each vehicle is rated, and each manufacturer is rated on a weighted average of their vehicles sold. It also seems very easy to game the CAFE requirements...it's built into the rating system.

From the Wikipedia article (Corporate average fuel economy - Wikipedia): CAFE standards still use the pre-2008 method that the EPA used for rating mpg...resulting in about a 20% higher mpg rating under CAFE for most vehicles. I think I've heard that hybrids and EV's tend to get incredibly unrealistic ratings under CAFE. I can't seem to find the data currently, but I vaguely remember checking a few years ago and saw that the EPA 50 mpg-rated Prius was closer to 100 mpg based on the CAFE rating, and most electric cars were rated closer to 200 mpge.

Additionally, CAFE standards seem to offer leeway based on a vehicle's "footprint" -- the area within the square defined by the vehicle's 4 wheels. So manufacturers can make a larger car, or even just design the wheels closer to the corners, to get some extra mpg points. And, anything classified as a "truck" gets a lower mpg target too -- per the linked Wikipedia page above, that was what resulted in station wagons going away in favor of minivans, and minivans being mostly replaced by SUVs. So, ultimately, instead of engineering more efficient small vehicles, manufacturers are motivated to design, manufacture, and convince consumers to buy larger and truckier vehicles that actually use more fuel, because the lessened requirements on those vehicles are easier to hit. Rather counter-productive in the end...

 

[Big Time]

Also:

 

[Krugerrand]

hatchback

hăch′băk″

noun​

1. A rear door on certain automobiles that opens upward.
2. A compact automobile having such a door.
3. A car with a sloping, hinged rear door that opens upwards.

I think this covers S, X, and Y. As well as SUVs in general.

It is a term with a broad application for a vehicle style with high utility access at the rear.

This is why Tesla makes 3 of 4 models as hatchbacks. Then, makes the M3 for those who never want to be seen in a hatchback and those who like a sporty sedan.

Hatchback - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[2daMoon]

Hatchback - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

From that page:

"The distinguishing feature of a hatchback is a rear door that opens upwards[6] and is hinged at roof level (as opposed to the boot/trunk lid of a saloon/sedan, which is hinged below the rear window)."

 

[madodel]

Farley, 2023 - "EVs are job 1!"

Farley 2023 1/2 - “What the customer really likes is when we take a hybrid system that’s more efficient for certain duty cycles and then we add new capabilities because of the batteries,”

As Ford loses billions on EVs, the company embraces hybrids

 

[AudubonB]

Bad énough to hear
Year after year
Misinfo about Cybertruck,
BUT
Whatever the season
I can think of no reason
For hatchbacks to run here amok.

Wrong place, wrong priorities, wrong Mod to tread on his toes.

 

[jerry33]

What does this mean for Hybrids?

I averaged 60 mph in the 2004 Prius over eight years, 150,000 miles ~50% road trip miles/50% commuting and misc urban, so I would be safe

 

[jerry33]

So much for glass ceilings...

Next time they should get their glass from Tesla.

 

[M|S|M MYP]

Next time they should get their glass from Tesla.

Single or Dual Pane? J/k...have a good weekend y'all!

 

[larmor]

Also:
View attachment 960443

Other reasons for the 40% decline include continued sales, delivery of new product line-- semi, factory tooling for cybertruck, potential licensing deals for FSD software and usage of supercharger network to other OEM auto manufacturers, thus becoming the de facto standard for EV charging in North America. Increasing sales would be my primary guess for continued down sentiment and pressure on TSLA.

 

[MC3OZ]

If the USA, EU, and Japanese dino-juice OEMs all drop by the wayside then it pretty much leaves just the Chinese and Tesla, which may slow things down slightly in global terms.

IMO there are 2 ways to look at this:-

1. How many wooden coach builders made a long term successful transition to automobile production?
2. The UK, US, Germany, France, Italy, Japan and Korea have a long and proud tradition of car making

Yes, I've got the UK on the list because the spirit and intention is there, the Brits like making cars and in spite of everything still have something to offer.

What we can really say is if the future car makers from those locations will be:-

• Existing car makers reborn.
• Some merger of existing, car makers perhaps in partnership with the Chinese.
• New organisations built from the remnants of existing car makers.
• New start up employing some staff from legacy car makers, but otherwise a greenfield operation.

The big opportunity is "the valley of unmet demand" they just need to be able to produce EVs that they can make money on.

Closing the technology gap to Tesla or attempting to be better than Tesla, is at this stage a distraction. To survive they need profitable product in sufficient quantity.

Even if they eventually go bankrupt, it is likely some sort of car company will be reborn from the ashes of these companies.

Between now an 2030, I think they are minor players, simply because they will not have the volume. Once we get to 2030 they probably have their act together and it is a slow grind back to relevance. In terms of the mission we can only hope that some of them can deliver meaningful volumes of cars between now and 2030.

I also would no underestimate what panic and the survival instinct can achieve, once they recognise that there is no future in ICE, they are more clearly focused on survival.

We also might get some surprises countries like India, Vietnam, Poland and Spain might to become significant car makers with some domestically owned brands.

Looking at it from a different perspective, if the customer demand for EVs is there, many will recognise the opportunity and attempt to satisfy that demand, the fittest will survive.

 

[GhostSkater]

Demand for VW must be really good, so good that for some reason I’m getting tons of ads for the ID.4

They don’t sell the ID.4 here…

 

[winfield100]

Bard:
View attachment 960438

for fun, ask chatbots who musical group "Fever Tree" were and names of songs on first album.
they usually get that wrong too,
and
when corrected,
thank you but have zero long term memory and forget what you corrected them very next day.

 

[StarFoxisDown!]

Demand for VW must be really good, so good that for some reason I’m getting tons of ads for the ID.4

They don’t sell the ID.4 here…

Now that’s what I call effectively spending advertising dollars

 

[Thekiwi]

IMO there are 2 ways to look at this:-

1. How many wooden coach builders made a long term successful transition to automobile production?
2. The UK, US, Germany, France, Italy, Japan and Korea have a long and proud tradition of car making

Yes, I've got the UK on the list because the spirit and intention is there, the Brits like making cars and in spite of everything still have something to offer.

What we can really say is if the future car makers from those locations will be:-

• Existing car makers reborn.
• Some merger of existing, car makers perhaps in partnership with the Chinese.
• New organisations built from the remnants of existing car makers.
• New start up employing some staff from legacy car makers, but otherwise a greenfield operation.

The big opportunity is "the valley of unmet demand" they just need to be able to produce EVs that they can make money on.

Closing the technology gap to Tesla or attempting to be better than Tesla, is at this stage a distraction. To survive they need profitable product in sufficient quantity.

Even if they eventually go bankrupt, it is likely some sort of car company will be reborn from the ashes of these companies.

Between now an 2030, I think they are minor players, simply because they will not have the volume. Once we get to 2030 they probably have their act together and it is a slow grind back to relevance. In terms of the mission we can only hope that some of them can deliver meaningful volumes of cars between now and 2030.

I also would no underestimate what panic and the survival instinct can achieve, once they recognise that there is no future in ICE, they are more clearly focused on survival.

We also might get some surprises countries like India, Vietnam, Poland and Spain might to become significant car makers with some domestically owned brands.

Looking at it from a different perspective, if the customer demand for EVs is there, many will recognise the opportunity and attempt to satisfy that demand, the fittest will survive.

I think maybe South Korea is the optimistic example of how incumbent auto producing countries could fare in the EV transition if they took the right approach. While most of the news focuses on growing dominance of Tesla/chinese EV
makers, and the struggles of US/EU/Japan incumbents - Korean automakers are producing nice EVs and Korean battery makers make up a decent fraction of global supply. Of all the traditional auto producing countries, they might have the best odds of maintaining their marketshare, or at least not suffering a total collapse.

 

[insaneoctane]

I just received an email from Tesla to advertise their FSD transfer option (subject: Buy a New Tesla, Keep Your FSD Capability). Unlike what I've read in the past, it will not be lost when the new vehicle is sold. I don't remember seeing this update hashed out here, if it was mods feel free to delete. Here's the FAQ verbiage :

If I sell my new vehicle, will the FSD capability stay with it?
Yes. Once you transfer your FSD capability, it will stay with the new vehicle. If you sell the new vehicle, the FSD capability will stay with the vehicle and be available to the new vehicle owner

Is this new?