Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[GOVA]

2024 Tesla Model 3 Highland driving REVIEW from Germany

 

[MC3OZ]

Of course, MAYBE the Cybertruck will do this...

IMO this is underestimated, because the Cybertruck will stand out and will challenge perceptions about Tesla and EVs.

What can change peoples minds?

Lots of things:-

• Having a ride in a EV.
• Test driving an EV.
• Seeing an EV that they like.
• A friend, neighbour or family member buying an EV.
• Discovering that they can afford an EV.
• Understanding the savings in running costs... (mostly fuel)
• Climate change prevention advantages.
• Not wanting to be seen as driving a 'dated' car.
• Saving money.
• Advertising.
• The performance and handling advantages of an EV.
• Working Robotaxis
• Aging of the ICE fleet, increasing difficulty in obtaining parts and mechanics for repairs.
• Gas stations closing, EV charging stations opening, noticing more EV chargers.

For high mileage applications like trucks, taxis and rideshare save the most on running costs, no hard sell us needed. In turn the use of EVs for taxis and ride share increases the chance of a member of the public riding in one.

Tesla has already indicated that they will advertise, working out the best approach before spending a big pile of money seems sensible to me,.

Advertising will help, but so does the rest of the list.. When a product is "good value for money" word of mouth always works.

It is hard to change people's mind in a single discussion, left alone, people change their mind when they are ready, or when there is no other sensible alternative.

 

[Oveeus]

I just want to comment on the Sweden union thing.

From the information I was reading, I don't think Tesla would concede. There's no law that dictates businesses must have union workers. And I do not think Tesla would want to set a precedent for other countries to follow.

Thus, unless the union give a concession of some kind, it is IMHO best for Tesla to stay put and just strong hand through it and set a precedent for Tesla in other countries to think twice before they want to do anything with union.

If it drags long enough, Tesla can find 3rd party shops that Tesla would supply the necessary supplies and tools for them to carry out the service needed instead of giving way. At higher cost than operating its own SC, sure. But the cost of giving in to union demands has much greater consequences. And Sweden is only a small market when you look at on a global scale. There's no need to give ways. And union can only go so far. They cannot force an entity to accept a union's demand.

 

[MP3Mike]

Several still work​

During Friday morning, several car mechanics - or service technicians as they are also called - slip into the workplace in Upplands Väsby. Most do not want to talk to Arbetet, but one of them, Patrik Broman, is happy to give his view on the strike:

- It is unnecessary. I don't think we get better wages with a collective agreement. We are above the minimum wages in the agreement, but if Tesla were to sign an agreement, I think we will receive the minimum wage.

According to Stefan Leiding, the average salaries at Tesla are below the average at other car service companies. Patrik Broman is skeptical of that task.

- We have received testimony that Tesla hires its employees so that they will work as usual, says Stefan Leiding.

"Carry on as usual"​

According to Patrik Broman, Tesla has told its employees that "we are running as usual". But also that those who are members of the union have the right to strike.

Patrik Broman thinks the strike is "unnecessary" and came to work as usual on Friday morning. "Tesla has said that we are running as usual, and that they will move staff here from another workshop if necessary," says Patrik Broman. Photo: Moa Källström
To customers, Tesla has sent out the message that the workshops "continue to be available".

Tesla plans to replace the service technicians who are on strike with others, something Dagens Arbete was the first to report on.

So, it sounds like the union is speaking for themselves and not for the majority of the Tesla employees. Which is what I expected. So it seems like Tesla is doing the correct thing by telling them they aren't interested in a collective agreement.

@SwedishAdvocate in these collective agreements does money end up flowing from the employer, or the employees, to the union? Is this really just a money grab? (If not, what changes is the union asking for? More money? More benefits? Better tools? More training? More PTO? Fewer hours? More OT pay?)

 

[Krugerrand]

So, it sounds like the union is speaking for themselves and not for the majority of the Tesla employees. Which is what I expected. So it seems like Tesla is doing the correct thing by telling them they aren't interested in a collective agreement.

@SwedishAdvocate in these collective agreements does money end up flowing from the employer, or the employees, to the union? Is this really just a money grab? (If not, what changes is the union asking for? More money? More benefits? Better tools? More training? More PTO? Fewer hours? More OT pay?)

So far all that’s been said is that the union wants a collective agreement. Doesn’t make sense to me. ‍ Something isn’t being reported on or it’s been lost in translation.

Since Tesla apparently has never had a collective agreement in place since operating a business in Sweden, that means every single employee knew that BEFORE they agreed to ‘I can start on Monday’. They accepted a job at Tesla knowing full well Tesla had no collective agreement with IF Metall.

#nolegtostandon
#barkupanothertreeuniondogs

 

[Usain]

For those that want to try to attend the Cybertruck delivery event.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1718015804623458607

Fingers crossed. Looks like I'll have to keep 'em that way until November 3rd.

 

[GhostSkater]

Some random tests showing how the build quality on Highland is, pretty damn good

 

[durkie]

He leads over 127k people at Tesla, 13k at SpaceX, 2.3k at X, 200 at Boring Company, 300 at Neuralink.

Please, can you share how you are an expert in how he manages his employees on the HR side as opposed to products/services?

I certainly am not. Personally, I've always been an individual contributor and, as such and being self-aware, I'm just astounded by what the guy is doing! To add on, I think we all should be!

 

[Ipcress]

You missed the part where I don’t like people very much and would welcome a zombie apocalypse. So do I care about the mission? Depends on the day and how ugly people have been recently.

My issue with this BP deal etc., is the rebranding and removal of any vestiges that the idea, the invention, the hardware and the software are from Tesla. I don’t like that one little bit and I’ve stated why in previous posts.

I agree. At least a prominent, readable "Powered by Tesla" should be incorporated into the graphics on the charger facing the user.

 

[M|S|M MYP]

New Tesla color - Stealth Grey

Wonder how much different this is from the original MSM, maybe more of a matte finish.

 

[2daMoon]

Speaking of Roth Conversions, any investors in the US who are receiving Social Security benefits will have opportunity to use the untaxed difference between SS income and the amount of income where taxes would apply to transfer shares into a ROTH.

As I understand it, an investor can move shares from a taxed account into a ROTH without a tax penalty when they figure up how many shares can be moved before the taxable amount exceeds the difference in this window between SS income and where taxation begins.

Doing this late in the year when the SP is on a down-swing might be perfect timing for those who can employ this tactic.

Now, where did I put that calculator...

Further digging into this and the advantage is had by keeping "combined income" below 25K in order to avoid tax on 50%-80% of the Social Security Benefit received. The value of the shares transferred from the IRA to the ROTH is taxed as income. (no capital gains, as the shares aren't being sold)

As more about this strategy is unraveled I'll write it up in my "Late to the Party - Last Minute Retirement Planning" thread.

 

[alhounos]

So, as we are at the weekend, any suggestions on what Tesla should do (IF ANYTHING) to address what I'll call both education about EVs and actual animosity (or at least opposition) toward EVs?
My first EV was a Chevy Volt (2012-2015). After that I moved to a Model S. For most of that time, my friends and co-workers were either ambivalent or mildly curious. A few became enthusiastic with test drives or at least impressed! They generally had all the usual questions (i.e. how far does it go on a charge, how do your charge, who fixes it, how long does the battery last, etc.).

Flash forward to today and most folks I run into still have the same basic questions (poke your heads outside the EV bubble), BUT now I also get the "I'll never own one of those cars!" attitude as folks view it as a "government thing" being jammed down their throats (and they aren't interested "regardless of price"...or so they say). I equate it to the "darn foreign cars" mindset of U.S. buyers decades ago.
Sure, the best thing Tesla can do is "keep making a compelling product" (indeed they HAVE to do this), but in an age of instant communication and rampant misinformation, should they do more? Heck, is there anything that can be done? The "A" word comes to mind of course, but what else? Even if Tesla can't "convert" those vehemently opposed...what about at least targeting the "ambivalent"?
Of course, MAYBE the Cybertruck will do this...much like the Model 3 and Y have in their respective segments. What I don't think is the answer is simply cutting prices into oblivion...remember, car buying is about "emotion" - it has been for decades. The Model 3 really triggered the "new car fever"...will anything else?

I think Tesla/Elon coming out against EV mandates and hopefully within a few years against subsidies would send the right message.

I completely sympathize with those that are reflexively skeptical of anything the government attempts to mandate.

I also sympathize with those angry that their hard-earned tax dollars are going to help upper middle class people buy expensive new EVs.

A good product should be able to win on the open market. A lot of people sense this intuitively even though they may not know how to articulate it.

 

[Bet TSLA]

That isn't a good reason for Tesla to enter into a Collective agreement.

I get that it is different, but let the market work itself out, don't go to drastic measures to try to force something.

They must think Tesla isn’t offering them enough of something, otherwise why would they need a collective agreement. No reason for a collective agreement if they believe everything is hunky dory.

It gets really tedious reading the opinions (regarding the Swedish strike) of people who know nothing of Sweden, Swedish people, or the work environment in Sweden. When you start out a post with "I don't know anything about ..." then it's best to just not post, as your opinion is utterly worthless.

It's remarkably different (and informative) to have posts from people who know something of the environment and situation. Thank you to them.

 

[Artful Dodger]

If not, what changes is the union asking for? More money? More benefits? Better tools? More training? More PTO? Fewer hours? More OT pay?

More Union. Nothing else is at issue. Its no coincidence that this strike started the same day the UAW strike ended in Detroit. Brotherhood of Unions, no doubt.

 

[Buckminster]

10 hours later and you're still all talking Swedish stuff. Clearly needs its own thread. My working title so far:
"Elon takes on US government single handedly but fearfully folds to a few turnips"

FYI, Elon had great respect for how Sweden managed covid but has seen shown concern over immigrants creating no go zones.

Nice article explaining current situation:
Sweden used to pride itself on moderation – until US-style culture wars poisoned our politics | Martin Gelin

 

[MC3OZ]

It gets really tedious reading the opinions (regarding the Swedish strike) of people who know nothing of Sweden, Swedish people, or the work environment in Sweden. When you start out a post with "I don't know anything about ..." then it's best to just not post, as your opinion is utterly worthless.

It's remarkably different (and informative) to have posts from people who know something of the environment and situation. Thank you to them.

Is the situation in Sweden so different to other countries that we must understand something specific which changes the nature of the negotiations between Tesla and the Union?

Seems to me that the Swedish union is behaving in a very similar way to Unions in just about every other country,

It should always be up to the workers at a particular factory as to whether or not they individually or collectively want to join a union.

Neither Tesla or union has the right to make that decision for the workers. If there is some quirk of Swedish law that is different to other countries it would be handy to know that.

If we are only speaking about convention, the convention is a sizeable number of autoworkers in many countries are in unions, but some are not.

The convention might be that union membership is higher in Sweden, but that is clearly not a legal requirement, provided workers have a "free choice" it isn't a moral requirement,

 

[Krugerrand]

It gets really tedious reading the opinions (regarding the Swedish strike) of people who know nothing of Sweden, Swedish people, or the work environment in Sweden. When you start out a post with "I don't know anything about ..." then it's best to just not post, as your opinion is utterly worthless.

It's remarkably different (and informative) to have posts from people who know something of the environment and situation. Thank you to them.

Yes, thank you to them for providing no specific details whatsoever.

1. They could not provide one detail of the contents of the collective agreement the union wants Tesla to sign nor what in the collective agreement would improve conditions, wages or otherwise for employees.

2. They claimed that the union and Tesla have been talking for 10 or maybe even 15 years but Tesla won’t ‘come to the table’. Contradiction much?

3. Via a Tesla statement it’s business as usual in Sweden; employees who want to work should carry on and those that want to strike and represent union interests should do that and Tesla will replace them with others.

4. Via a reporter who interviewed a Tesla employee in Sweden - see #3. Additionally, said employee didn’t support Tesla signing a collective agreement for fear his wages would DECREASE to minimum wage as he claimed Tesla was already paying ABOVE minimum wage.

So yeah, thanks to those you praise in the know not actually being in the know.

 

[aubreymcfato]

He leads over 127k people at Tesla, 13k at SpaceX, 2.3k at X, 200 at Boring Company, 300 at Neuralink.

Please, can you share how you are an expert in how he manages his employees on the HR side as opposed to products/services?

I certainly am not. Personally, I've always been an individual contributor and, as such and being self-aware, I'm just astounded by what the guy is doing! To add on, I think we all should be!

Of course I'm not an expert.
But we know Tesla dislike unions worldwide and has a sort of "no negotiating" policy.
(we also know that one year ago Elon bought a company that shall not be named and fired on the spot 80% of the workforce... In the end, I use personally and professionally that product, I have used it for a decade, and can state that is now technologically better and socially worse. We can debate that elsewhere).
I simply think that Tesla should do well by their workers: what is the outcome I don't know, that is what negotiations are for. I don't care about the unions, but I do care about Tesla workers. For example, I love stock options for all the Tesla workers, it's great and it's indeed the "right thing".

 

[hobbes]

Thank you, very helpful!

A few more data points here

 

[cliff harris]

So, as we are at the weekend, any suggestions on what Tesla should do (IF ANYTHING) to address what I'll call both education about EVs and actual animosity (or at least opposition) toward EVs?
My first EV was a Chevy Volt (2012-2015). After that I moved to a Model S. For most of that time, my friends and co-workers were either ambivalent or mildly curious. A few became enthusiastic with test drives or at least impressed! They generally had all the usual questions (i.e. how far does it go on a charge, how do your charge, who fixes it, how long does the battery last, etc.).

Flash forward to today and most folks I run into still have the same basic questions (poke your heads outside the EV bubble), BUT now I also get the "I'll never own one of those cars!" attitude as folks view it as a "government thing" being jammed down their throats (and they aren't interested "regardless of price"...or so they say). I equate it to the "darn foreign cars" mindset of U.S. buyers decades ago.
Sure, the best thing Tesla can do is "keep making a compelling product" (indeed they HAVE to do this), but in an age of instant communication and rampant misinformation, should they do more? Heck, is there anything that can be done? The "A" word comes to mind of course, but what else? Even if Tesla can't "convert" those vehemently opposed...what about at least targeting the "ambivalent"?
Of course, MAYBE the Cybertruck will do this...much like the Model 3 and Y have in their respective segments. What I don't think is the answer is simply cutting prices into oblivion...remember, car buying is about "emotion" - it has been for decades. The Model 3 really triggered the "new car fever"...will anything else?

This is also something I think about, and it is rage inducing, as the facts are so in favor of EVs, and the spread of FUD by oil companies and dinosaur companies led by muppets such as GM, Toyota is so blatant.
But...
Actually I think it might be fine. I was one of the very first people to buy an LED lightbulb. It cost me $30. It was not perfect, by any means. At the time, there were huge campaigns, by idiots, that incandescent lightbulbs were some sort of fundamental right, and that 'zealots' were 'forcing us' to move to different lightbulbs! its an outrage! they cause cancer! they explode! they don't last! the light is not as good!

These days they are absolutely everywhere, at least here in the UK. Ultimately, cost savings trump absolutely everything. People might be defending their stash of FREEDOM BULBS with passion, right up until they realize they are paying 20x as much as everyone else...

Much to my despair, 99% of people I know seem to not care one bit about climate change, despite claiming to care about their kids. They DO care about money though. I take great pleasure in reminding them I can drive the 240 miles to London and back for the price of a coffee in London.