Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
A board that holds onto their cash in preparation for a possible downturn / recession is incompetent nowadays?
Weird.

as opposed to hope and wishes.
Yeah, the Tesla BoD allowing Musk to signal significant share selling by announcing up-front on Twitter, and then having the toothlessness to just let him dump onto the open market for weeks at a time, that is not protecting shareholder value whatsoever, quite the opposite

And then his brother Kimbal, being "ever so lucky" with selling $120millio worth of shares at ATH, just before these events, that totally stank

But on the matter of buy-backs, what a total waste of money, keep that cash on-hand, please, stay debt-free and grow, this is what we want
 
Yeah, the Tesla BoD allowing Musk to signal significant share selling by announcing up-front on Twitter, and then having the toothlessness to just let him dump onto the open market for weeks at a time, that is not protecting shareholder value whatsoever, quite the opposite

And then his brother Kimbal, being "ever so lucky" with selling $120millio worth of shares at ATH, just before these events, that totally stank

But on the matter of buy-backs, what a total waste of money, keep that cash on-hand, please, stay debt-free and grow, this is what we want
Cash-on-hand lets Tesla earn almost 2 Billion / year now with US savings rates :cool::eek:
 
Yeah, the Tesla BoD allowing Musk to signal significant share selling by announcing up-front on Twitter, and then having the toothlessness to just let him dump onto the open market for weeks at a time, that is not protecting shareholder value whatsoever, quite the opposite

And then his brother Kimbal, being "ever so lucky" with selling $120millio worth of shares at ATH, just before these events, that totally stank

But on the matter of buy-backs, what a total waste of money, keep that cash on-hand, please, stay debt-free and grow, this is what we want
But the cash needs to be invested somewhere to grow at higher than the risk-free rate (like any corporation)… either back into the business, or stock buyback/dividend. Fair to have a cash pile for safety reasons, but beyond a certain point it’s not useful to investors.
 
But the cash needs to be invested somewhere to grow at higher than the risk-free rate (like any corporation)… either back into the business, or stock buyback/dividend. Fair to have a cash pile for safety reasons, but beyond a certain point it’s not useful to investors.
Seems to have worked for APPL;

 
Last edited:
Erm, that looks like a Model 3 with a Plaid sticker that anyone can apply. Why are we certain Tesla is going to use its Plaid branding on its least expensive Model? They have Insane and Ludicrous before they have to go Plaid.
Because that plaid sticker has been accidentally leaked in a Tesla parts manual some time ago.
Model 3 plaid.jpg
 
Does any know if Tesla "primarily purchases [Nvidia’s] products through system integrators and distributors"? If they do, they might be the customer that represented 19% of total revenue for FY 2024. If not, I’d guess it was Meta(stasize).

From Nvidia’s 10K:

“We receive a significant amount of our revenue from a limited number of customers within our distribution and partner network. Sales to one customer, Customer A, represented 13% of total revenue for fiscal year 2024, which was attributable to the Compute & Networking segment.

“One indirect customer which primarily purchases our products through system integrators and distributors, including through Customer A, is estimated to have represented approximately 19% of total revenue for fiscal year 2024, attributable to the..”

edit: It appears to me the formatting of posts here does not respect double spaces between sentences. Is that the case? If so, that is obnoxious. Yes, I’m aware it’s a trend not to use them—I’ll refrain from characterizing what I think of the trend—nevertheless the author’s usage should be respected lest quality posts be discouraged.

edit II: Whoever it was, it looks like Dojo was a worthwhile bet.
Years ago, people learned how to type on a typewriter, which gave every character the same amount of space on a page. This meant the letter i, for example, was given the same amount of space as the letter w, even though it took up less space. What evolved from this practice—called monospaced typesetting—was the use of two spaces between sentences so that new sentences would stand out in the uneven text.
But these days computer programs use proportionally spaced fonts, so it’s time to get rid of double spacing between sentences. Not only do most people deem this formatting habit a mistake, but it may make your formatting appear outdated.
( How Many Spaces Go After a Period, One or Two?)
 
Because that plaid sticker has been accidentally leaked in a Tesla parts manual some time ago.
View attachment 1021790
Yeah, the video looks legit.

In the comments on X they mention a professional film crew and it's got a "display tag" for the license plate. Brake calipers are red and wheels are new. Chin spoiler on the front.

Not a long range with just a ludicrous badge.
 
Looks to me like speed has increased. This is important because if it's too slow then the bot would be impractical for many tasks.
The steps are a little longer than in an earlier video. Walking speed, like the speed of anything else it does, doesn't need to match a human to be acceptable. At half the speed, it simply takes two Optimi to do the same work as a human.

IMHO, it's already walking fast enough and they should put their attention to stability next. The bot should not fall over when carrying a load and a human bumps into it or on uneven ground in most cases. And if a fall is unavoidable, it needs to mitigate the impact so as to minimize any damage. Perhaps they are training for these goals already; would love to see where they're at on this front. But these are recruiting videos, not product ads. I'm grateful for whatever they are willing to share.
 
Can confirm it's going out. I just got a notification for 2023.44.30.20, FSD V. 12.2.1, and I'm definitely a nobody :D .

Like I said, I'm a nobody...but after a few days, I am very pleased and optimistic with FSD 12.2.1. To me, it really feels like Tesla is getting there, and I feel like the critics will be having a much tougher time finding something to complain about...so, if not a potential boost, at least greatly reducing one avenue of potential negative dings against TSLA...

Info/thoughts in the "spoiler" below, for those interested.

Possibly worth noting: I live in California, so, the "speed limit" is a suggestion. Traffic generally moves well above 60 mph on a 55 mph road, etc. I mainly put this here for any critics tempted to invent a story about FSD "breaking the law" by going above the posted speed.

I also drive as Tesla intends: at least one hand on the wheel, looking forward most of the time (except to check mirrors or otherwise quickly check the areas around the vehicle).

My main commute is somewhat unique -- about 65 miles each way, and after I exit my neighborhood, the drive is mainly on ~55 mph mountain-ish and desert roads. Usually 1-lane each way, with various shoulder quality -- ranging from pavement ending at the side of the lane with a dirt shoulder, to there being a lane line on the pavement and a narrow paved shoulder, to full 8+ foot wide paved shoulders. The path has curves as well as long/straight roads. There is some slower driving through small towns. Several regulated intersections (stop lights and signs). Several unregulated intersections and merges. Flat roads, as well as longer hills, as well as rolling "swells" in the roads that can affect visibility ahead.

I have everything in the car (acceleration mode, FSD setting) set to "Chill", and I have NOT yet enabled the new "Automatic Speed Offset" option...so that might affect some of the below.

Good things/improvements:
  • Lane positioning is VERY natural.
    • On a 1-lane-each-way road, I tend to shift toward the shoulder by default. It feels safer, whether or not there is oncoming traffic. FSD used to stay dead-center most of the time, which was a bit uncomfortable. FSD 12.2.1 is often shifted to the right even when there is no oncoming traffic, and very gently shifts toward the right as oncoming traffic approaches.
    • Better lane position when the road "changes."
      • Old FSD would act confused when my 55 mph / 1-lane each way road suddenly widened before adding, for example, a right turn lane near an intersection. Old FSD would sortof center in the wider area, then as it hit the marker for the added lane, it might dip into that right turn lane and then activate the turn signal to go back into the proper/straight lane. FSD 12.2.1 seems to deal with this perfectly now...it just stays in the right place the whole time.
      • There's an area in my commute where the 1-lane-each-way road suddenly widens to allow a wide, but unmarked, shoulder for turns and parking. So, my lane suddenly goes from 13 feet wide to probably 30 feet wide if you don't have the human intuition about the implied (but unmarked) shoulder area. Old FSD would try to "center" in that lane, even with a vehicle to follow that was acting normally. This just felt dopey...and necessitated some slowing and correction by old FSD as the road narrowed again after a few hundred yards. FSD 12.2.1 stays in the right place and deals with this area perfectly now.
  • Is FSD avoiding small road debris?
    • In a residential area, in the dark, there was a smallish something in the road where my passenger-side tires would have hit it -- grey (so blended into the road, especially at night), and maybe 18" wide and a few inches tall. I swear, FSD 12.2.1 shifted to the left and drove around it.
    • Out on one of those desert roads, there were two stacked tires that had been dumped on the small paved shoulder, just beyond the driving lane. FSD 12.2.1 shifted to the left when driving past.
  • Longer use of turn signals before turns. Rather than seemingly sticking to "turn signals activated exactly 200 feet before a turn", FSD is now much more reasonable and polite. When slowing to turn at an upcoming unregulated intersection, old FSD would slow for quite a while before activating the turn signal ~200 feet before the turn. I would usually activate the turn signal myself if there were cars behind me. Now, FSD activates the turn signal when it should for a polite driver -- when it begins slowing.
  • Better dealing with "odd" stop signs
    • There is a stop sign that I think must be mounted at an odd height, and old FSD seemed to briefly misinterpret its distance. So, on appraoch to the sign, old FSD would be gradually slowing, then suddenly brake more strongly, and then gradually slow again. I would generally hover my foot on the accelerator so I could correct that when needed. FSD 12.2.1 seems to have eliminated this behavior.
  • Speed limit "correction."
    • There's one spot, near/between neighborhoods, where the speed limit of the road is 35 mph, but for some reason Tesla's map data has it marked as a 55 mph road for a few hundred feet. This is a stretch of road between two 35 mph speed limit signs, starting about half way between them, and ending at one of the signs. The area is clearly quasi-residential -- it has a double-yellow line in the center, but there are still houses with driveways meeting this road and not much shoulder room.
      • Some versions of old FSD would unnaturally accelerate in this area, and I would intervene.
        • FSD would correct its speed limit once it approached the next speed limit sign.
      • FSD 12.2.1 still notes the wrong 55 mph speed limit from its map data on-screen, but keeps the speed appropriate with no unexpected acceleration.
      • I recall Tesla announcing they were working on the vehicle being able to intuit the speed limit based on the surroundings...and I have noticed that sort of thing in the past, at this and other areas. Hopefully this keeps getting better and "sticks" in the areas where it is working now...
  • FSD 12.2.1 totally parked in my driveway...but just once so far.
    • With old FSD, I'm used to FSD sortof stopping in the middle of the road in front of my house and telling me navigation is complete. I normally de-activate FSD and take over.
    • On one of my drives home, as FSD stopped in front of my house, I hit the left turn signal (toward my driveway). I hadn't yet de-activated FSD, and then I actually noticed it start to move so I let it continue. It turned and parked "perfectly" in my driveway.
      • I put "perfectly" in quotes because I normally park in the garage, and on the other side...so FSD parked in the driveway and behind our other garaged car. But, other than that matter of preference, the car was actually perfectly parked in the driveway.
    • On another day, I tried to repeat this...but I think FSD had stopped a little farther forward and didn't even try to make the turn into my driveway.
Neutral observations:
  • I always used to use the steering wheel scroll wheels when FSD asked me to prove my hands were on the wheel. This seems to be disabled in FSD 12.2.1, so I actually have to turn the wheel a bit.
    • The "right amount" of steering wheel jostle to confirm my presence without taking over has taken some getting used to. It actually seems like the text and blue highlight on the screen take about a half second to go away once I pull the wheel enough...and once I figured that out, I was more successful in not pulling the wheel again a bit more strongly and accidentally disabling FSD.
  • FSD 12.2.1 seems to want to drive a bit slower, especially if there are no cars around.
    • I set my default max speed to 14% above the speed limit, which comes to 63 mph on 55 mph roads (again, California...63 is usually at the lower end of the speed of traffic). I'll adjust manually as needed to match traffic and my comfort level.
    • Old FSD would happily cruise along at 63 mph, with or without other cars around.
    • When no other cars are around, FSD 12.2.1 seems to prefer to drive between 56 and 61 mph when my max setting is 63.
      • If I gently accelerate myself and then gradually let off the accelerator, FSD will often maintain my set speed, at least for a while.
    • When other cars are around, FSD is more happy to get up to my max setting to match traffic.
      • Somewhat funnily, after driving at roughly 60 mph, and being passed by another vehicle (probably doing 70), FSD sped up to my max setting after they had passed. I think it "likes" having a car to follow.
  • FSD *MIGHT* have an ability to pass on 2-lane roads, by driving into the oncoming traffic lane, legally, as humans do.
    • I saw hints of this twice...once at a perfectly appropriate time, and once at a time/location that would have been confusing.
    • When behind a much slower vehicle (such as a slow semi truck just after making a turn), FSD has activated its turn signal and shifted towards the oncoming traffic lane. The location was perfectly legal to do so -- the center lane line was yellow/dashed, no oncoming traffic, etc. However, I'm not into trusting new machine behaviors right away...so I took over and drove myself instead of waiting to see what would happen.
The bad-ish or annoying things:
  • I know it's not directly connected to FSD...but the automatic wipers are still bad. Sometimes they work just right, other times not. Sometimes in the rain they do the job perfectly. On the other hand, recently on a moderately rainy day, with FSD running, I was manually clicking the wiper button to maintain my visibility. On the other hand, driving on a clear night myself recently, as I stopped at stop lights, the front cameras must have been picking up some odd glare (maybe my windshield was dirty) and activated the wipers a few times. And, when that didn't work, the auto wiper algorithm activated the windshield squirters and wiped the windshield again. It's just so odd how the auto wiper algorithm can take such measures in clear weather, but often seem to need manual intervention in the rain.
  • Sometimes, FSD 12.2.1 seems to oscillate its speed a bit. I haven't yet noted if this "always" happens in the same places and/or times -- perhaps it is something to do with the flatness of the road, or shadows at certain times of day, or something else...but there are times when FSD 12.2.1 seems to, for example, oscillate between regenning the speed down to about 54 mph, and then accelerating back up to 60 mph, and repeating until I get annoyed enough to take over. It isn't a drastic acceleration or deceleration rate, but it is noticeable, and would really annoy a vehicle behind me, so I don't let it happen at all if there is somebody following. This doesn't seem to happen if there is other traffic in my lane for FSD to follow...
  • There are a few sections of 55 mph road where FSD's maps mistakenly say the speed limit is 25 mph. A very mild annoyance, as I can over-ride that with the scroll wheel. But, I look forward to the day that either the map data is updated or FSD can intuit the correct speed there too.
  • Ignoring or missing "odd" speed limit signs
    • There are a few speed limit signs that are on the far side of a wide dirt shoulder. FSD often (but not always) misses these and will continue to drive at the previous marked speed if I don't correct it.
    • There's also a speed limit sign that is mounted low to the ground, beneath another sign on the same pole. I think there was one version of "old" FSD that recognized this sign, but all the others, including 12.2.1, seem to ignore it and I have to manually adjust.
 
Last edited: