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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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Does the inverse not also occur with large call volumes?
Yes and no regarding the effect of massive option buying and then getting rid of those options in the afternoon. Certainly if someone was buying calls by the hundreds of thousands in the morning that would send the stock price higher. That was exactly the situation in 2020 when TSLA was climbing to the moon and the call buying was forcing the stock price upward at a frantic pace. OTOH, market makers normally seem to protect the stock price from getting too far ahead of the max pain number (and nearby big call walls), but they don't often extend the same courtesy when the stock price is on the way down. I believe this is both because there are typically more calls bought than puts and because the stock price generally moves higher as the year progresses (and so downward movement reduces the amount paid out to longer term call holders over time).

What manipulators are really doing by pushing the stock price down quickly at market open is changing the psychology of investors. They're generating a fear of falling which often leads to investors buying puts (which pushes the stock price further down) or selling shares at a low price. That fear can persist throughout the day, allowing easier buying to close those puts. It's particularly potent after a long dip such as we're in. In such a situation, a rally early in trading day is not as likely to generate fear of missing out (FOMO). Investors are more skeptical about rallies than dips due to the market maker influence.
 
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This is ridiculous. So they don't want to hold their puts over night automatically means it's nefarious?

I like how you mention the delta-hedging that occurs when they buy the puts, but you fail to mention that delta-hedging happens in the opposite direction when they buy-to-close the puts.

Obviously, someone shorting the stock causes selling pressure. If there was someone ready to swoop in and buy those shares at those prices, it wouldn't move so much.

But that didn't happen because not many investors want to buy at this price given the likely downturn in earnings and the loss of the "growth" in a growth stock.

BTW, did you report Musk to the SEC when he callously dumped shares onto the market in December 2022?
Of course there is delta-hedging associated with disposing of the puts in the afternoon. I pointed out in my complaint that when fear is generated by a deep morning dip that fear leads to additional put buying by other investors and outright selling that extends throughout the day,. The rate of selling those puts can be spread out and tweaked to keep a relatively constant price or downward movement. Shorting can be used if a minor uptrend develops. For example, in the image of yesterday's TSLA trading below, you can see an upward deviation from the smooth shallow descent of the stock price around 3:18pm. At 3:28pm this upward excursion was neutralized by 1.8 million shares of selling in a single minute. You can see the volume blip on the chart. Managing psychology by creative manipulations is an art. This is why capping can be so effective. The manipulator whacks any upward excursion and avoids investors thinking the trend has turned.

mar13chart.jpg
 
If they had spare US made 2170s they wouldn't have lost the IRA credits on the Model 3 LR AWD by being forced to switch to 2170s from LG in china. Those extra US cells don't exist though- right now 100% of em are going into Model Ys (some might go into a P Model 3, but there's a decent argument they won't as it'd only make sense if they priced it 55k or less which'd cause a pricing problem with the non-P models).

Semi could use the Chinese 2170s the Model 3 switched to though since it wouldn't qualify for the $7500 consumer credit anyway.
This is a potential source of more 2170s for Austin Model Ys...


Panasonic said it will produce a new and improved version of the 2170 cells used in Tesla Model 3 and Model Y at the plant in Nevada that it operates with Tesla “sometime during 2024 or 2025,” according to a new report in Bloomberg. The new cells, which pack a lot more energy density, could help reduce EV prices, the company states.

Panasonic is currently building a new factory of 2170-type cells for EVs in De Soto, Kansas, its second in North America. The plant is a $4 billion project with an initial output of 30 GWh/year.

We don't know the status of these projects but we can safely assume that the factory in Kanas is still under construction, and that the Nevada upgrades probably haven't happened,

My personal observation of production at Austin is that it is going well, something similar can be said for most factories, and I am nor aware of inventory piling up anywhere.

There were a lot cars at a Chinese port a few days ago, but that isn't that unusual...

IMO completing the Model Y ramp at Austin and Berlin is a higher priority than qualifying any variant of the Model 3 for the IRA tax credits. That is because those Model 3s can use other cells.
 
Yes and no regarding the effect of massive option buying and then getting rid of those options in the afternoon. Certainly if someone was buying calls by the hundreds of thousands in the morning that would send the stock price higher. That was exactly the situation in 2020 when TSLA was climbing to the moon and the call buying was forcing the stock price upward at a frantic pace. OTOH, market makers normally seem to protect the stock price from getting too far ahead of the max pain number (and nearby big call walls), but they don't often extend the same courtesy when the stock price is on the way down. I believe this is both because there are typically more calls bought than puts and because the stock price generally moves higher as the year progresses (and so downward movement reduces the amount paid out to longer term call holders over time).

What manipulators are really doing by pushing the stock price down quickly at market open is changing the psychology of investors. They're generating a fear of falling which often leads to investors buying puts (which pushes the stock price further down) or selling shares at a low price. That fear can persist throughout the day, allowing easier buying to close those puts. It's particularly potent after a long dip such as we're in. In such a situation, a rally early in trading day is not as likely to generate fear of missing out (FOMO). Investors are more skeptical about rallies than dips due to the market maker influence.

So....it's "manipulation" when the options push the stock down but it's not worth a letter to the SEC if options push the stock up?
 
So....it's "manipulation" when the options push the stock down but it's not worth a letter to the SEC if options push the stock up?
Different situations. The options purchase both have an effect, but what is the intent behind it?

People buying calls throughout the trading day to hopefully profit in the future
Versus
Someone buying a bunch of puts at open to manipulate the stock price
 
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The hits continue 🙄
Evercore analyst Chris McNally also said that the best-case scenario for production and deliveries for 2026 is somewhere around 500,000, half of what Wall Street has projected for that year’s production of the next-gen vehicle.

500,000 Gen3 vehicles from the existing Austin factory. is around what I would expect.

IMO this depends on when construction for an additional factory is started, they are not necessarily going to be informed about that on a tour of Austin.
 
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Thanks for the info on deliveries. IDK, but it seems Tesla would cut prices if demand fell as much as some are thinking (~420k).

It's not that demand has fallen, but rather production has fallen. Berlin was down for some time, Shanghai was down for Chinese New Year, and Fremont is slow to ramp Highland M3. All of these contribute to production for Q1 being lower than we'd like it to be.

Tesla delivered 484,507 in Q4 2023, let us hope they can get back up to that (or surpass it) for Q2 of this year. If not then even 2 million produced for 2024 might be out of reach.
 
All of these contribute to production for Q1 being lower than we'd like it to be.

Lower than Q1 2023?

AUSTIN, Texas, April 2, 2023 – In the first quarter, we produced over 440,000 vehicles and delivered over 422,000 vehicles.
Or lower than Q4 2024?

AUSTIN, Texas, January 2, 2024 – In the fourth quarter, we produced approximately 495,000 vehicles and delivered over 484,000 vehicles.
 
Short interest was up to 95,932,821 on February 29th, ‘24 and the share price closed at $201.88.

That’s an additional 7,282,306 shares shorted (up from 88,650,515) on February 15th when it closed at $200.45.

Imagine the increase in shares shorted to get us where we are today in addition to the need for the tactics with puts that @Papafox describes?

While those tactics may be intended to promote fear, they may also be the product of fear. Fear generated by the vulnerability of shorts exposed by the lack of any effect on the share price by the sale of over 7 million short shares.

Short interest reported here:
Historical TSLA share prices here:
 
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While those tactics may be intended to promote fear,
IMO there is a supporting narrative intended to produce fear, or increase the chances of fear...

Some part of that narrative might be simply a response a lower share price, and some part might be a deliberate attempt to create a negative narrative.

The negative narrative is always hyper-focused on short term results, and tries to create a sense of panic and urgency.

And it is typically in relation to some short term expectations Wall Street has. Personally speaking, I have never cared what short term expectations Wall Street has.
 
Wow. Tesla chair again sold a ton of TSLA. Maybe someone could meowsplain to her why she doesn’t understand the business.

"The transactions reported on this Form 4 were automatically effected pursuant to a Rule 10b5-1 trading plan previously adopted on October 23, 2023 and established by the reporting person for the purpose of an orderly liquidation of options scheduled to expire in 2024."
 
This is a potential source of more 2170s for Austin Model Ys...






We don't know the status of these projects but we can safely assume that the factory in Kanas is still under construction, and that the Nevada upgrades probably haven't happened,

My personal observation of production at Austin is that it is going well, something similar can be said for most factories, and I am nor aware of inventory piling up anywhere.

There were a lot cars at a Chinese port a few days ago, but that isn't that unusual...

IMO completing the Model Y ramp at Austin and Berlin is a higher priority than qualifying any variant of the Model 3 for the IRA tax credits. That is because those Model 3s can use other cells.
I can update you on one product: Cybertruck. I live in a small town on an island at a high latitude and Tesla offered me my Cybertruck as early as this Saturday (though I plan to pick it up with a family member who isn’t available till another day).

That’s good news not just for me but for all of us longs as it indicates the ramp is going well and that Tesla is confident of their product.👍🏻
 
Different situations. The options purchase both have an effect, but what is the intent behind it?

To make money?

Assuming they can show the strategy did that, and they didn't make any illegal trades (no inside info, no naked shorting without a Madoff exception, no publishing fake "Tesla on verge of bankruptcy stories, etc) I'm not sure what law, specifically, Papafox thinks they're violating. The securities laws around manipulation generally require you to manipulate in a way that is, itself, against the law. Simply doing a genuine buy or sell that moves the market isn't illegal-- even you do it more than once- if it were Elons selling would be a violation.

If the SEC thinks the behavior is bad for fair and free markets they can always propose new regulations (I mean, good luck getting them to... and I'd be super curious to see the wording that'd let them prevent opening and closing options same day, but only when "bad" people do it?

But likewise good luck asking for an enforcement action where I can't see any much of a legal case for there being one)


Lower than Q1 2023?


Or lower than Q4 2024?

Lower (or within 1-2% of anyway) Q1 2023 is ballpark the latest data-based # I saw (and MS, GB, and others have been cutting their own "predictions" pretty near in line with that since their meeting with Tesla in Austin as well).

So get ready for a fresh round of everyones favorite last-place-tipranks "analyst" telling you about Teslas busted growth story.



This is a potential source of more 2170s for Austin Model Ys...

We don't know the status of these projects but we can safely assume that the factory in Kanas is still under construction, and that the Nevada upgrades probably haven't happened,

Sure, improving the Nevada cells is a possible source- but given they themselves have targeted "sometime during 2024 or 2025" for the upgrades (and there'd be downtime to get them in place and working) it's unlikely that'd materially increase supply THIS year.

Ditto the Kansas plant, which at last report had March 2025 for start of production-
 
"The transactions reported on this Form 4 were automatically effected pursuant to a Rule 10b5-1 trading plan previously adopted on October 23, 2023 and established by the reporting person for the purpose of an orderly liquidation of options scheduled to expire in 2024."
Yeah, but exercising does not require selling (beyond covering taxes and basis).