Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
What is likely an employee giving feedback on the next version of FSD, 12.3.2. This version is currently in employee cars and merges the latest versions of FSD into the 2024 branch of vehicle code. Anyone that recently subscribed to FSD and keeps their car generally updated needs this version to get V12 FSD in their car due to an earlier branch in the code.

 
Last edited:
What is likely and employee giving feedback on the next version of FSD, 12.3.2. This version is currently in employee cars and merges the latest versions of FSD into the 2024 branch of vehicle code. Anyone that recently subscribed to FSD and keeps their car generally updated needs this version to get V12 FSD in their car due to an earlier branch in the code.

It's still behind 2024.8.X that is installed on a large % of the fleet.
 
I think wall st analysts who are 100% focused on valuing the company like any other car company from the 1980s... are going to be caught completely unaware by Teslas long term revenue from FSD subscriptions.
They absolutely 100% guaranteed will not see what is happening until there is a big jump in FSD revenue reflected in a quarterly financial statement.
Services and other revenue in Q4 2023 was approximately 10% of total revenue, almost exactly the same as the full year figure.
From the end year deck:


In other words, FSD subscription revenue has been tiny up until now. As Tesla sell more cars at a lower price, the percentage of buyers who have the up-front $12,000 to buy out FSD completely is bound to fall, so I would expect that the percentage of FSD revenue that is subscription based will rise.
If Tesla continue to have no desire to impress wall st, they can continue to not draw attention to subscription revenue until it becomes awkward not to :D.

As someone with TSLA stock, I'd love to see official figures on revenue from superchargers, and from FSD subscriptions. However I get the impression Elon hates having people go through the company data with too fine granularity, so I reckon they will lump all this stuff together and hide it for a while, just as I expect they will not give us exact cybertruck production figures until its tens of thousands a month.

I didn't honestly expect 2024 to be the year of FSD revenue growth, but here we are!
Keep in mind that there will be considerable expense that goes along with that revenue. These computers are costing billions and they become obsolete within a few years. Still, looking forward to the ramp.
 
Agree--sounds very good. I'm also stunned that, with a big, beautiful screen in every car, Tesla has not made an orientation/tutorial INTERACTIVE video to be watched and followed along by every purchaser at pick-up. I know about the set of short introductory videos to watch that one can find on the website, which are fine for what they are. This would be a permanent (updatable with new software) video tutorial that could be watched by the owner, and anyone else who will also drive the car, taking a new driver through every aspect of operating the car.

There could be a "quick-start" guide as well, but the key would be to have the participant work interactively through all of the initial adjustments and use of controls in a controlled, well thought out way.

This will become increasingly important as FSD is introduced. Heck--I've had my MY for a couple years now, but I'd love to follow such a video course. It's hard to keep up with all the updates. I'm glad to see more Tesla advertising, finally, and look forward to more customer education, that will be needed to engage the second wave of non-native Tesla-fan customers!

Even better if it monitors driving and feature use habits so it can pop up a message like, "I noticed you do XXX fairly often and wanted to let you know that you could do YYY instead. Would you like to know more about that?"
 
Many people all around the world currently employ a person to drive then around, when they don't want to drive.

Choosing when you want to drive is a luxury, not a basic necessity, it is a necessity for those who can't drive.

The cars already come with basic autopilot standard that might be further improved and expanded over time, we might see a return of EAP, but IMO it makes sense for FSD to be priced as a luxury.

When there are working Robotaxis, letting your car work as a Robotaxi is one way of recouping the cost of FSD.

IMO the best model is let the old car work as a Robotaxi instead of trading it in, and buy a new car.

Using private cars just allows Tesla to maintain good service levels while building the fleet, IMO they choose this model because they understand the importance of a large fleet, and the also know some portion of the fleet will be under utilized. For example, Tesla might choose to use you car during the day while the regular fleet of Robotaxis are recharging for the night shift.

The current pricing model doesn't make sense until FSD supports Robotaxis,.
 
Re FSD pricing options

It is interesting to note Starlink has a number of pricing plans available to consumer users which have changed
dramatically as the product has developed

1 Basic plan for homeowner
2 Throttled plan approx 50 % of 1 above
3 Mobile plan for coastal boaties / mobile homes , more expensive that 1 above
4 Offshore plan volume related more expensive than all above

Then commercially there are a number of different plans
1 Ships
2 Airlines
3 Country /Miitary

I think that overtime FSD will develop different pricing “rental “ regimes and purchase will not be an option

OT, I know, but, I don't see #2 "Throttled Plan" on the residential Starlink page. Only the Unlimited Plan for $120.

As for FSD, the subscription approach has been demonstrated with software for years. It is the most likely to be applied to FSD in the long run.
 
What is likely an employee giving feedback on the next version of FSD, 12.3.2. This version is currently in employee cars and merges the latest versions of FSD into the 2024 branch of vehicle code. Anyone that recently subscribed to FSD and keeps their car generally updated needs this version to get V12 FSD in their car due to an earlier branch in the code.


If Tesla has managed extreme improvements from V12.3.1 to V12.3.2 I wonder how they did it. We know that they are no longer compute constrained from Elons tweets. But how would this have worked? Suddenly 10k H100 came online at once? Doesn't seem plausible. And it's not only that the improvement is impressive, it also seems that the interval between releases has gone from 1 month to 2weeks. Maybe Dojo got a leap in performance or a large number of them were made and installed at the same time, that seems more likely to give a step response in performance than nVidia chips.

Maybe the new system just need failure cases from the real world to rapidly fix these from release to release.

Or maybe they found some nice tweak to the cost function for the end2end neural network.

Anyway this new rate of improvement is imo the interesting thing, not the performance of V12.3.2. Think of where this is going over a year with FSD, optimus and alien dreadnaught. That's the important question...
 
Even better if it monitors driving and feature use habits so it can pop up a message like, "I noticed you do XXX fairly often and wanted to let you know that you could do YYY instead. Would you like to know more about that?"
Only if you can also give a reason why you're doing it this way. Example. FSD wants to turn on the first block past the alley instead of continuing to the main intersection and then turning. The street off the alley is wide with two big lanes and has few to no parked cars. The street FSD wants to turn on is technically a few metres shorter, but has cars parked on both sides and room for one car between them. So the larger street will be safer and quicker. (FSD also wants to go down that narrow street at 30 mph which is about double the safe speed).
 
I've seen that previously.

Curious if that could be retrofitted to other vehicles. Also, not sure if this is true, but that wasn't included on the Highland.
it probably needs the new 800V / 48V architecture which I think will be in all future Gen3 vehicles.

It may be possible for new Gen1, Gen2 vehicles at some stage, but a retrofit for an existing vehicle seems unlikely to be possible for a reasonable price.
 
OT, I know, but, I don't see #2 "Throttled Plan" on the residential Starlink page. Only the Unlimited Plan for $120.

As for FSD, the subscription approach has been demonstrated with software for years. It is the most likely to be applied to FSD in the long run.
In NZ there is another plan








lIgjSJGU_bigger.jpg

@grok

Yes, there is another plan called "Starlink Basic Access" which is a deprioritized service plan. This plan is intended for customers who exceed their monthly Priority Access data limit.
Under the Basic Access plan, customers will experience reduced speeds during peak usage hours (7am to 11pm) compared to the Priority Access plan. This is to manage network congestion and ensure a fair distribution of bandwidth among all users. The Basic Access plan is still suitable for basic internet activities like browsing, streaming, and email, but may not be ideal for bandwidth-intensive tasks like gaming or large file downloads.











lIgjSJGU_bigger.jpg

@grok

Yes, there is another plan called "Starlink Basic Access" which is a deprioritized service plan. This plan is intended for customers who exceed their monthly Priority Access data limit.
Under the Basic Access plan, customers will experience reduced speeds during peak usage hours (7am to 11pm) compared to the Priority Access plan. This is to manage network congestion and ensure a fair distribution of bandwidth among all users. The Basic Access plan is still suitable for basic internet activities like browsing, streaming, and email, but may not be ideal for bandwidth-intensive tasks like gaming or large file downloads.
 
If Tesla has managed extreme improvements from V12.3.1 to V12.3.2 I wonder how they did it. We know that they are no longer compute constrained from Elons tweets. But how would this have worked? Suddenly 10k H100 came online at once? Doesn't seem plausible. And it's not only that the improvement is impressive, it also seems that the interval between releases has gone from 1 month to 2weeks. Maybe Dojo got a leap in performance or a large number of them were made and installed at the same time, that seems more likely to give a step response in performance than nVidia chips.

Maybe the new system just need failure cases from the real world to rapidly fix these from release to release.

Or maybe they found some nice tweak to the cost function for the end2end neural network.

Anyway this new rate of improvement is imo the interesting thing, not the performance of V12.3.2. Think of where this is going over a year with FSD, optimus and alien dreadnaught. That's the important question...
Ah, finally the power of exponential growth and just its beginning. No more hardcoded limits only AI self reinforcement.

Exponential is scary for my little brain. OpenAI Sora visualizes this somehow. No more limits.
 
If Tesla has managed extreme improvements from V12.3.1 to V12.3.2 I wonder how they did it. We know that they are no longer compute constrained from Elons tweets. But how would this have worked? Suddenly 10k H100 came online at once? Doesn't seem plausible. And it's not only that the improvement is impressive, it also seems that the interval between releases has gone from 1 month to 2weeks. Maybe Dojo got a leap in performance or a large number of them were made and installed at the same time, that seems more likely to give a step response in performance than nVidia chips.

Maybe the new system just need failure cases from the real world to rapidly fix these from release to release.

Or maybe they found some nice tweak to the cost function for the end2end neural network.

Anyway this new rate of improvement is imo the interesting thing, not the performance of V12.3.2. Think of where this is going over a year with FSD, optimus and alien dreadnaught. That's the important question...
Actually it's probably the H100 coming online. It has been a year since H100 started to ship and it takes 9-12 months to get a datacenter online from beginning to end. Of course Tesla didn't get the allocation of 10k H100 since release date as Musk was complaining how they are unobtainium at the time. So lets say they got 10k worth 6 months ago and it took them 6 months to set up a datacenter using them(and this is 2x the speed of industry standard).
 
Ah, finally the power of exponential growth and just its beginning. No more hardcoded limits only AI self reinforcement.

Exponential is scary for my little brain. OpenAI Sora visualizes this somehow. No more limits.
Well Tesla actually already worked out 90%+ of all the problems from self driving before V12. They went from fixing thousands of problems to now finding specific problems. Remember how brutal V1 was. People said Tesla couldn't even drive straight. Now just imagine if they fix 1 or 2 problems on your drive and you'll be disengagement free for weeks. And another problem fixed will lead to disengagement free for months. We are at the tail end of FSD training...now if only they get map data to be just as good as self driving....
 
This is absolutely how FSD should be positioned. I think Elon and Cathy vastly overestimate the number of people who will be willing to turn their cars over to the masses. And to date, I've not seen any presentation on exactly how Robo-utopia would work - who will charge the cars between fares? It's not like Supercharger stations have attendants - or will they be Optimus robots? How will profits be split between the owner and Tesla? And liability insurance? Damages? Who will clean the cars? No, not for me. But I did like having FSD on my last car and would consider buying/renting it again for personal use - but not at the absurd price Tesla is charging today.

Those are foreseeable and solvable problems.
What happens when a passenger walks away and leaves a door or the trunk open.
I ‘m sure a robotaxi will be able to close a door or trunk automatically. Today’s model 3/Y can’t.
If you’re giving a million rides a day, that only has to happen once in every thousand rides to become a major hassle.
 
So I'm still looking for a used Tesla to replace the totaled car. But let me give some color on FSD / EAP you may not have seen if you aren't shopping.

I can find used cars with FSD, with EAP, and without either. On the cars without there is no option during the online purchasing to add EAP or FSD.

So for example a 2020 Model 3 has EAP but white paint, another 2020 Model 3 has no FSD but blue paint.

I'm positive I can't get EAP or FSD added to the blue car online during the purchase process. I'm not certain if I can buy it after delivery in the app.

I'm surprised they aren't offering it or at least making it clear you can add it later (if you can add it after delivery).

Some example cars

https://www.tesla.com/m3/order/5YJ3E1EAXLF495948 (2020 no FSD)
https://www.tesla.com/m3/order/5YJ3E1EA3KF486863 (2019 with EAP)
https://www.tesla.com/m3/order/5YJ3E1EA6PF600247 (2023 with EAP)

no mention of adding FSD on any of the used car listings.
 
Only if you can also give a reason why you're doing it this way. Example. FSD wants to turn on the first block past the alley instead of continuing to the main intersection and then turning. The street off the alley is wide with two big lanes and has few to no parked cars. The street FSD wants to turn on is technically a few metres shorter, but has cars parked on both sides and room for one car between them. So the larger street will be safer and quicker. (FSD also wants to go down that narrow street at 30 mph which is about double the safe speed).

Not like that. What I was talking about was more like using Autopilot rather than FSD (if both were available), or ASS instead of manual parking (once it is working well). Sort of an AI version of Mr. Paperclip, except built by Tesla instead of Microsoft so it actually serves a purpose. :rolleyes:

I'd not want a car to give me tips on my driving style.