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Tesla Unionization
- Thread starter Buckminster
- Start date
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
IF Tesla were to begin talking to Metall then Tesla would of course have a say in those negotiations. Therefore – a Collective agreement between Metall and Tesla doesn't exist as of yet. And something that doesn't exist can not be public information. Again – in a negotiation with the union, Tesla would of course be able to influence their own Collective agreement.
But to be perfectly honest – if Tesla enters into a Collective agreement with Metall, then I honestly don't know whether that would be public information or not.
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SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
But are the agreements secret? even that seems very strange to me if they are.
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
Oh... And one more thing...
As I understand it, that court ruling is preliminary. The final decision has not been made. And that court is the first instance out of three...
As I understand it, that court ruling is preliminary. The final decision has not been made. And that court is the first instance out of three...
Imo Tesla have been very professional in accepting that the union is acting lawfully. And when they thought parts of the sympathy strike was unlaw they went to the court and their lawyers seem effective getting a decision very quickly. We will see if more are to come, but imo organizations should not rely on "the swedish model" to win over "the swedish legal system" and tread carefully with their actions.Sweden is not the US. As you may have noticed by now the unions can do stuff in Sweden that I'm guessing they can not do in the US. And Sweden doesn't have any kind of such RICO, "extortion" or "racketeering" laws. We do have such laws aimed at corporations though...
Everything the unions have done this far is within the letter of the Swedish Law.
The union has likely made a few things that likely are crossing the legal line. For example they put signs up at superchargers, both on the grass and on the cables. The latter is likely illegal and goes under sabotage. According to some anonymous sources that may or may not be fabricated some union members might have applied illegal pressure on Tesla workers "threatening" that they might not get hired again if they don't join the union. I guess this is on the same level as the threats that Elon was sued for "threatening" the workers that they would lose stock options if they joined UAW. But this was likely not the actions of the union, but might warrant a cease and desist even if was individual actors acting on their own.
But other than that, from what I can tell the union have been doing things within the law. Sucks for Hydro Extrusions Sweden, Werksta, the coating company and now also Postnord that they signed the collective agreement and have to suffer from the Unions lawful actions, but they knew about that risk when they signed the collective agreement and one of the many reasons that Elon would not sign any collective agreement that he doesn't have to according to the law.
Hang on.. thats not how it should work. A collective agreement is negotiated between the union and all the companies of that field. Its not something that Tesla and IF Metal negotiates between themselves. Thats why its called a _collective_ agreement.
And thats why it should all be public information.
Maybe find out? Shouldn't be too hard to see if
kollektiva förhandlingarna are public ir not?
Having visited Copenhagen this year, a truly fine city which is conveniently connected to Sweden via a bridge upon which vehicles can travel, I do wonder if this will play out with Tesla moving all Swedish deliveries to Denmark, and replacing any parts suppliers as necessary. Inconvenient, particularly if service center visits are needed, but perhaps workable.
A big question, which I haven't seen any new information about lately, is how far are Danish companies willing to go in sympathy strike actions. I have the vague impression they had made statements to sympathetic effect a week or two ago, but can anyone clear up how possible this outcome is? Could Sweden's loss be very much Denmark's gain here, if Tesla gets tired of fighting in court or hits a dead end?
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
This has been discussed on the Swedish Forum. (Tesla Club Sweden). The President of Tesla Club Sweden confronted the head of the Electrician union about this. And this was not sanctioned by the union. Only signs mounted on sticks adjacent to the supercharger site was sanctioned. Not the ones on the cables.
The only one claming this is that twitter account and his(?) anonymous source.
Mainly the strike so far has been a sympathy strike that does not affect Tesla in any meaningful way directly. The auto workshops with collective agreement will just have to lose all their business and the ones without a collective agreement will have to take over that business. There will be some expansion, hiring and scaling up needed for the companies without collective agreement and some scaling down, layoffs and bankruptcies for the companies with collective agreements. It will be a little bit messy the first few months, but soon the market will have adapted, that's what markets do. And Sweden still is a market economy.
The union is betting it all that they will find a way that Tesla cannot work around. So far they the registration plates has been the only big one, and that one seems to fail in court. So they will have to figure out a new way or Tesla and the companies working with Tesla customers will keep going on without collective agreement.
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
Maybe within ~50-100 km of the Danish, Norwegian and Finnish border, but other than that the Swedish market would probably be lost unless Tesla lets other companies take over the repair side of the business.
And again, what market would be next?... Is Tesla willing to lose the Norwegian market as well?... What would this do to all of Tesla's sales in Europe, if they could decide to abandon any market in Europe at any time?... And what would it do to the values of existing customer's cars. The Model S and X as well as the Y and 3 are considerably more expensive in many European markets compared to the US for example...
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
It seems they aren't publicly available. But I'm not an expert, so I can't guarantee that this info is 100% correct...
My nick was chosen in 2012. And the 'Advocate' part was meant as proponent. I only have a 10 week introductory course at university level. And not in this part of the Swedish law.
Source in Swedish:
Har jag rätt till kopia av ett lokalt kollektivavtal?
Jag undrar om företag och fack har rätt att vägra dela ut ett lokalt kollektivavtal med hänvisning att det är en affärsuppgörelse. Vi får titta på det, men inte kopiera det...
Krugerrand
Meow
No one knows what’s in the collective agreement either.
A HANDFUL of Tesla employees are on strike. The MAJORITY are working as usual and content to do so per their own mouth.
For the THIRD time and reported by your own media; the collective agreement is not conducive to Tesla’s business culture nor the culture of today’s modern high tech companies . What part do you not understand?
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
According to Tesla themselves more than 90% of employees are still working.
Source in Swedish:
Teslas brev till ägarna: 90% har valt att jobba | Carup.se
Nu trappas Teslastrejken upp till en informationsstrid. Tesla har skickat brev till drygt 50 000 svenska Teslaägare. Fackförbundet Elektrikerna buntar fast sina budskap vid och på Teslas laddstolpar. – Mer än 90 procent av våra anställda har valt att stanna kvar på sina tjänster, skriver Tesla...
carup.se
Last month last year Tesla had 289 employees.
Source in Swedish:
TM Sweden AB | Aktiebolag | Info & Löner - Bolagsfakta
TM Sweden AB – Org.nummer: 556931-4098. På Bolagsfakta.se hittar du kontakt-och företagsinformation, nyckeltal, lön till VD & styrelse m.m.
www.bolagsfakta.se
So is that 90% of the total number employees? Or is it 90% of the mechanics?
9% out of 289 employees is 26 mechanics on strike.
9% out of 130 mechanics is 12 mechanics on strike.
9% out of 400 employees is 36 mechanics on strike... – Almost a year has passed since Tesla had 289 employees. What if they have 400 employees now?...
What part do you not understand? Who the *sugar* cares about what the Swedish Right Wing Media thinks?! Not me.
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Huh?
Isn't that exactly what he said?Less than 10% on strike, be that 12-40 employees, is just a handful. And that handful shouldn't be able to dictate the terms of employment for the 90+% of employees.
Just like you say everything we post is just from an anonymous source on the Internet, why should we trust it... Well, you are an anonymous source on the Internet and I don't trust anything you say.
But really it seems like the only thing you can say is along the lines of "everyone else does so why shouldn't Telsa." And that just doesn't fly. Everyone else said you couldn't make good, and profitable EVs, but Tesla proved they were wrong. Well, actually they still can't make profitable EVs, and most of what the "competition" makes haven't been good. Maybe the old/legacy thinking, like "just sign a collective agreement, everyone else does", is why the "competition" can't make good, and profitable, EVs...
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
Huh?
Less than 10% on strike, be that 12-40 employees, is just a handful. And that handful shouldn't be able to dictate the terms of employment for the 90+% of employees.
Ok... I misinterpreted handful as meaning five a the most. But it's still very, very vague. The number of mechanics on strike are at least 12.
handful noun
an amount of something that can be held in one hand
handful
1. an amount of something that can be held in one hand: 2. a small number of…
dictionary.cambridge.org
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What does 5 have to do with anything? From your dictionary link:
I don't know about your hands/coins, but a handful of coins is way more than 5 for me. (Or are you trying to say that I couldn't hold more than one mechanic in my hand, so a handful can't be more than 1?)
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
I misinterpreted handful as meaning five a the most. But it's still very, very vague. The number of mechanics on strike are at least 12.
I've edited my previous posts.
