2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
It is unclear to me what you are asking. Please clarify and I'll do my best to provide an answer.
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Tesla Unionization
- Thread starter Buckminster
- Start date
It is unclear to me what you are asking. Please clarify and I'll do my best to provide an answer.
Krugerrand
Meow
Fear. Anger. Illogic.
Thank you for continuing to post. It was only a matter of time until you revealed what really upsets you and it has nothing to do with unions, working conditions, or the like.
FYI, you’re in the wrong thread. Oh, wait. You helped to get that one closed.
You guys will never convince each other. Imo leave it. Meanwhile, Norway which has so many Teslas has joined the strike:
If they stop servicing tesla cars in Norway it's a lot bigger deal than Sweden. Or is it just a sympathy strike against Tesla Motors Sweden unloading cars in Norway and taking them to Sweden? It seems a bit unclear, but could be a big deal. Waiting for details...
www.svt.se
Fellesforbundet, Norway's largest trade union in the private sector, announces a blockade against Tesla cars, as a sympathetic measure to IF Metall's strike against Tesla to get a collective agreement.
- They take the fight against a union-hostile company on behalf of the entire labor market. Now Tesla must immediately accept IF Metall's demand for a collective agreement, says union leader Jørn Eggum to the Norwegian newspaper Dagbladets Børsen.
If Tesla has not met IF Metall's demands by December 20, the Fellesforbundet will enforce the boycott, according to Eggum.
"When they ask for our support, we naturally back up. Like the companies, the trade union movement is global in the fight to protect the workers," said Jan Villadsen, chairman of 3F Transport, in a press release.
If they stop servicing tesla cars in Norway it's a lot bigger deal than Sweden. Or is it just a sympathy strike against Tesla Motors Sweden unloading cars in Norway and taking them to Sweden? It seems a bit unclear, but could be a big deal. Waiting for details...
Norskt fackförbund varslar blockad mot Tesla – i sympati med IF Metall
Fellesforbundet, Norges största fackförbund inom privat sektor, varslar om blockad mot Tesla-bilar, som en sympatiåtgärd till IF Metalls strejk mot Tesla för att få till ett kollektivavtal.
www.svt.se
Norwegian trade union announces blockade against Tesla - in sympathy with IF Metall
UPDATED TODAY 01:33PUBLISHED TODAY 01:11Fellesforbundet, Norway's largest trade union in the private sector, announces a blockade against Tesla cars, as a sympathetic measure to IF Metall's strike against Tesla to get a collective agreement.
- They take the fight against a union-hostile company on behalf of the entire labor market. Now Tesla must immediately accept IF Metall's demand for a collective agreement, says union leader Jørn Eggum to the Norwegian newspaper Dagbladets Børsen.
If Tesla has not met IF Metall's demands by December 20, the Fellesforbundet will enforce the boycott, according to Eggum.
Danish union announces sympathy measures
Denmark's largest trade union 3F Transport, which organizes dock workers and drivers, also announced sympathy measures on Tuesday. In 13 days they will not receive or transport Tesla's cars going to Sweden."When they ask for our support, we naturally back up. Like the companies, the trade union movement is global in the fight to protect the workers," said Jan Villadsen, chairman of 3F Transport, in a press release.
All I saw is that they might stop transporting Teslas that are headed to Sweden. I haven't heard anything about them stopping the serving of Teslas, or interfering with Teslas staying in Norway.
Imo the language that they use seems to hint that they might escalate even further. Maybe initially they will attack only transports to Sweden, but they have the full support and it's a pretty big union...
Varsler Tesla-boikott
Fellesforbundet støtter Tesla-streiken i Sverige, og har sendt boikottvarsel til bilprodusenten.
www.fellesforbundet.no
Announces Tesla boycott
The Fellesforbundet supports the Tesla strike in Sweden, and has sent a boycott notice to the car manufacturer.Announces boycott: Fellesforbundets leader Jørn Eggum supports the Swedes' demand for a tariff agreement with Tesla.Photo: John Trygve Tollefsen
The Fellesforbundet has on Wednesday 6 December sent a boycott notice to the car manufacturer Tesla in Sweden, Tesla AB. The boycott will be aimed at the transport of cars to the Swedish market.
- In the Nordic countries, there is broad agreement about the importance of a well-organized working life. It ensures employee co-operation and reasonable employment and working conditions. The right to demand a collective agreement is a natural part of our working life, and we cannot accept that Tesla stands outside this, says Fellesforbundets leader Jørn Eggum.
Full support
Since October 27, members of the Fellesforbundet's sister association IF Metall have been on strike at Tesla's workshops in Sweden. The strike and the demand for a collective agreement have broad support in Sweden, and a number of unions have announced and implemented sympathy actions.- Our trade union comrades in IF Metall have the Fellesforbundet's full support in the conflict with Tesla. They take up the fight against a union-hostile company on behalf of the entire working life. Well, Tesla should immediately accept IF Metall's demand for a tariff agreement. If this is not in place by December 20, we will proceed with implementing boycott measures.
Boycott Unions
Fellesforbundet is the largest union in the private sector in Norway and represents employees in industry, car workshops, ports and transport.If the contractual relationship in Tesla AB is not resolved by December 20, 2023, the Fellesforbundet will call for boycotts without further notice. The purpose of supporting IF Metall's demand for a collective agreement at Tesla's workshops in Sweden.
- It is too early to say what concrete measures we want to implement to support the strike in Sweden. This is a clear signal to Tesla that they cannot move transport of Swedish Teslas to Norway. In that case, it will be met with actions, and we want to take the measures you need to make this work.
2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. There isn't enough information provided to have an informed opinion.
I'm trying to understand what IF Metall is so stirred up about. It doesn't seem to be about working conditions or pay or any actual issue with Tesla that can be clearly stated. (other than the "if Tesla does it, everyone else might do it too" offering by IF Metall)
Are they only upset because a company won't enter into an agreement that is not required by law? This is basic rights stuff. Contracts cannot be coerced and remain valid.
This, now international, fiasco must be about solving some actual problem. What prevents IF Metall, or any of their advocates, from breaking this down into component parts so it can be understood by all?
Or, is the problem being solved by this attack merely a matter of IF Metall claiming their turf, regardless of the law, and disregarding rights violations they employ to get their way?
How does entering into the agreement make it better for the company, the employees, or for IF Metall than if they do not enter into it?
What are the specific incentives for each of those groups to have a collective agreement?
If those in a position to know could answer these queries (in a civil manner) understanding is bound to follow.
When those in a position to know continue to avoid answering these questions, it raises the question of, "What is so important that it must be concealed by IF Metall to avoid a clear understanding being revealed."
I don't support the Union. But the reasons have been argued here before and repeating the debate is not adding any value. Anyway, to steelman their position. They believe that without collective agreement, the workers will not be treated as well by the employer. They can get fired(like spotify recently fired 1500 people to improve their economic performance) more easily, they will get less pension(Tesla claims stock options is more valuable but some people think stocks are gambling) and they think you should do it in solidarity otherwise other companies who are less nice than Tesla will more easily get away with mistreating their workers.
Imo they fail to see the cost of the bureaucracy, the slower decision making, the corruption in the unions(Fora in this case) and the mob rule that use. Most of them are midwits and socialists and they hate Elon and just want to stick it to him even if they cause more losses than anything they might win if they manage to win.
Shouldn't the amount of pension just depend on your salary and how much of it goes towards your pension fund?
I'm not familiar with swedish pension model. So how exactly do tesla workers get less pension?
Here a part of your monthly salary goes to a pension fund, and when you retire, your pension is pretty much what you've paid over the years. It doesn't matter where you work, union or not, its the same percentage.
for everyone then as we watch this international drama unfold!
Who doesn't love a story where the bully gets their just desserts in the end?
right there with ya buddy, bully musk is finally going to get whats long coming to him. what i think is funniest, is the alternate reality that people live in where they don't quite recognize the giant public perception shift that's happened with musk and still view him as some tony musk ironing man, and not as the weird faced bloated grandma whose stumbling from one public **** up to another, that the rest of us see.
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
OK, so clearly you have no plans to make "arguments within reason". You just hate Musk and see a reason to stomp your feet and yell like a toddler. Fine, that's on you, not the rest of us.
1B USD for a union in Sweden, that's MASSIVE. Heck, that's huge for a union anywhere.
Oh, and I have an employee in Sweden, so I do have a SMALL inkling of what is likely going on behind the scenes there. His take is "yeah, the unions here are basically like the Mafia, they don't provide much practical benefit anymore but you don't dare go against them. Both employers and employees fear them."
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
The one-post wonder has spoken!
And yet . . . Tesla keeps selling more and more cars, quarter after quarter, year after year.
Who's living in an alternate reality?
Hmm. Tesla Norway and Sweden are different companies. The main strike is against Tesla Sweden, I don't think sympathy strike can suddenly target Tesla Norway instead?
What's more, Norway has very different union system than Sweden. I don't believe Tesla has any issues with that system.
The strike is about Tesla Motors (global) refusing Tesla Motors Sweden to sign any collective agreements. Tesla Motors Sweden does not have the mandate to sign any collective agreement. The only way the IF Metal Union can convince Tesla Motors Sweden to sign any agreement is by harming/threatening to cause harm to Tesla Motors (global).
Does Tesla Motors Norway have collective agreements?
johnnycnote
Member
Looks like someone created a second account to support their position
2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
I think you could have been more immature. But, not by very much more.
It is a shame how those with the union bias tend to be the least eloquent, and seemingly unable to maintain a civil discourse without resorting to name-calling and childish ranting.
Now is your chance to break that mold and offer sensible, logical and factual answers for the questions preventing a clear understanding of the IF Metall point of view. I double dog dare you to write something without imbuing it with emotion.
In the words of Dirty Harry - "Feel lucky punk?"
Wait and see how this goes.
2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
Earlier in this thread someone said that they are required by law in Norway and that Tesla has collective agreements there. If so, then yes.
Edit: better info below
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Oh. I somehow didn't think IF Metall could legally target companies outside Sweden. But yeah it makes sense.
Tesla Norway most likely doesn't have collective agreement. At least it has been mentioned several times that Tesla doesn't have such agreements in any country.
However.. Remember we have "binding agreement" in Finland. Or whatever is called, "yleissitovuus". It basically means that collective agreement automatically applies to all companies in that genre. So in Finland Tesla hasn't made a contract, but they have to follow it anyway. But as noted Tesla terms are better than what's required by a big margin.
I googled and it seems Norway system is something between Finland and Sweden. Agreements are not binding by default, but if a company is found to pay too less or having cheaper foreign workers or some other annoyance, binding agreement can be forced.. So it's probably the government that takes care of mishaps, instead of the union.
Some Norwegian can correct me if I got it all wrong.
2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
Oh. I somehow didn't think IF Metall could legally target companies outside Sweden. But yeah it makes sense.
Tesla Norway most likely doesn't have collective agreement. At least it has been mentioned several times that Tesla doesn't have such agreements in any country.
However.. Remember we have "binding agreement" in Finland. Or whatever is called, "yleissitovuus". It basically means that collective agreement automatically applies to all companies in that genre. So in Finland Tesla hasn't made a contract, but they have to follow it anyway. But as noted Tesla terms are better than what's required by a big margin.
I googled and it seems Norway system is something between Finland and Sweden. Agreements are not binding by default, but if a company is found to pay too less or having cheaper foreign workers or some other annoyance, binding agreement can be forced.. So it's probably the government that takes care of mishaps, instead of the union.
Some Norwegian can correct me if I got it all wrong.
I wanted to point out this response to all the IF Metall Advocates as an example of how to share knowledge without resorting to obfuscation or breaking into a childlike tantrum.
Thank you @Zuikkis for the clear, concise description of how you interpret what you found.
Now that you have demonstrated how easy it is, maybe they will follow suit.
Mike Smith
Active Member
This isn't about Musk hating unions, it's about unions hating Tesla. If they get in they'll cause problems whenever they can because:
EVs - Union leaders around the world have openly called EVs a threat
Competition - Tesla is destroying the other car companies, who the unions rely on for memberships
Automation - Tesla is pushing harder than anyone to make EVs cheaper through automation
Humanoid robots - Need I explain?
Tesla won't give in. They'll ship cars as far away as Poland and tack on the "IF Metall delivery charge" to the customer price to drive them to Sweden. The second best selling EV in Sweden is the ID4....
EVs - Union leaders around the world have openly called EVs a threat
Competition - Tesla is destroying the other car companies, who the unions rely on for memberships
Automation - Tesla is pushing harder than anyone to make EVs cheaper through automation
Humanoid robots - Need I explain?
Tesla won't give in. They'll ship cars as far away as Poland and tack on the "IF Metall delivery charge" to the customer price to drive them to Sweden. The second best selling EV in Sweden is the ID4....
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