Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Tesla Unionization

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
It is possible to cherry pick these things all day, but if you evaluate what is happening at Starbase, they are creating a manufacturing process that is explicitly different than what aerospace has done heretofore. It is more akin to a shipyard than a cleanroom.

Compared to unionized shipyards in the United States, Starbase is in-family. The Starbase injury rate (6.1 injuries/employee in 2022) is comparable to the big Ingalls shipyards in Newport News and Pascagoula (4.6-5.9 injuries/employee in 2021).

There are big changes happening all the time at Starbase. They are changing manufacturing methods on the fly. It is chaotic. But I suspect the injury rate will subside over the next few years as they settle into the under-construction Starfactory.

There's gotta be something wrong with your injury units. I certainly wouldn't hang around in a job where I expected to be injured every two months.

Ahh, sweet bitter pill:


German trade union IG Metall labeled IF Metall’s strike against Tesla Sweden illegal. IG Metall shared its perspective on the Tesla Sweden vs. IF Metall issue.

“That would be illegal. You strike for your own business, for your own wages. A political strike would mean violating the duty to work, and then the employer could take action against the employees,” said IG Metall spokesman Markus Sievers.

It was clarified over the the main (wrong) thread that they didn't say that the Swedish strike was illegal, just that supporting it would be illegal for them in Germany.
 

Elon Musk and a powerful US union may clash next year in what could be a defining moment for both the embattled tech titan and an American labor movement seeking to flex its muscles fresh off a dramatic victory over Detroit’s car makers.

The fight is shaping up as 2023 draws to a close – a great year for US unions and a complicated one for Musk.

The world’s richest man has lit so many dumpster fires at X (née Twitter) that it is hard to see his many accomplishments for the smoke. Meanwhile, the US’s biggest unions have pulled off a series of victories that have burnished their reputation in ways Musk can only envy.
As the only US car manufacturer whose workers are not represented by a union, Musk’s Tesla, the world’s most valuable car company, has long been a target of the United Auto Workers (UAW).
 

Elon Musk and a powerful US union may clash next year in what could be a defining moment for both the embattled tech titan and an American labor movement seeking to flex its muscles fresh off a dramatic victory over Detroit’s car makers.

The fight is shaping up as 2023 draws to a close – a great year for US unions and a complicated one for Musk.

The world’s richest man has lit so many dumpster fires at X (née Twitter) that it is hard to see his many accomplishments for the smoke. Meanwhile, the US’s biggest unions have pulled off a series of victories that have burnished their reputation in ways Musk can only envy.
As the only US car manufacturer whose workers are not represented by a union, Musk’s Tesla, the world’s most valuable car company, has long been a target of the United Auto Workers (UAW).
Haha these guys are so disconnected from reality. Yes, look at how Musk, who doesn’t give two sh*ts what others think of him, is so jealous of the outstanding reputation the UAW has earned for itself this year…
 
Have a feeling this will be an expensive ordeal for the insurance company and werksta who both have collective agreements.


Marcus: "My Tesla is being held hostage by IF Metall"​

By Tibor Blomhäll | December 12, 2023 |
WerkstaTesla.jpg

One of our members contacted us to share his story. Marcus bought a Tesla Model Y at the end of June this year. After owning the car for three weeks, he drove with his wife and son to Öland on holiday. "Go to Öland, it will be fun, they said," he tells us. "But it wasn't very fun."
On Öland, they were hit from behind. He slowed down and stopped, but the Volvo behind did not, but drove straight into their car at roughly 60 km/h. There was a terrible bang. "The car saved us," says Marcus, "if we had gone with the wife's Hyundai i10, I wouldn't be standing here today. I will never buy another car.”
As he lives on the west coast, he wanted the tow truck to transport the car to a sheet metal workshop in Gothenburg, but the insurance company Trygg-Hansa believed that the Werksta plant in Norrköping was closer. Werksta is an independent workshop chain with a collective agreement that is accredited for sheet metal work on Tesla cars. After several weeks of waiting, the car was then sent on to Werksta Linköping as they were considered to have better competence to repair its damage.
By the beginning of October, Werksta had received all the necessary spare parts from Tesla and started the repair work. Which was supposed to take three weeks according to their initial estimate but then dragged on.
When IF Metall issued its notice against Werksta at the end of October , Marcus became worried about his car. However, he received reassuring news: the notification would only apply to new cases, started jobs had to be completed so his car would not be affected.
The day before Werksta is taken out of the blockade, however, he receives new information: Werksta then claims that IF Metall has changed its mind, they will not be allowed to work on any Tesla at all, regardless of who is the customer or how far they have come on the work. The car must be moved out of the workshop premises. Werksta sets up a makeshift, unheated storage tent in the yard where his and other Tesla cars are placed. According to what he heard, IF Metall was not really satisfied with that arrangement either, in that the tent was still standing on Werksta's land, they really wanted the cars to go out on the street. Marcus's car was then completely disassembled from the back doors to the back. Werksta had started the assembly but had not had time to complete it.
When he asked if the car could be damaged by this, they did not want to answer at first. IF Metall concluded that the cars had to be boosted so that their batteries would not suffer permanent damage - but Marcus's car cannot be charged because the belt tensioner had tripped and thus automatically deactivated the main battery! Marcus' mobile has had no contact with the car for five months now. “Who knows how much charge it has left? The only thing that keeps me hopeful is that I had just charged the car, the batteries were 90% charged when the accident happened," says Marcus. The car's batteries are slowly discharging and if the charge reaches 0% or if the batteries freeze, they can be permanently damaged.
So now Marcus' car sits and slowly discharges and freezes to ice in an unheated tent in Linköping. A car he enjoyed for a total of three weeks before the crash. A car that had already received all the parts needed for the repair, a repair that his insurance company would pay for and that would be done at a sheet metal repair shop connected to public transport.
Marcus has tried in various ways to get rid of his car. From Werksta he received the message that IF Metall has forbidden them to even touch the car. IF Metall's contract secretary Veli-Pekka Säikkälä responded to his email with "I understand you and everyone else who is affected by this conflict". However, his solution to the problem was that as soon as Tesla signs off, the car can be fixed.
Marcus has also tried to get Trygg-Hansa to move his car to another sheet metal workshop. At first they said no problem, suggested that the car be moved to Ellte car in Tumba, a tow truck had even been booked. But then they suddenly changed their mind. Marcus believes out of fear for IF Metall. Suddenly he was called by a manager at Trygg-Hansa who said that they did not want to get involved in the conflict. If he wants to move the car and repair it elsewhere, he must do so at his own expense, the insurance company has only approved the cost of the repair at Werksta.
Marcus' car cost SEK 560,000. The damage after the collision was estimated at 200 thousand kroner. The replacement rental car Trygg-Hansa pays has already cost them over one hundred thousand kroner. And Marcus sees no improvement in his case. He does not believe in any quick solution but feels a kind of sick resignation, comparing the situation he has found himself in to Catch 22 or Kafka novels.
"That a strike affects third parties is completely reasonable and part of the game," says Marcus, "but in our case we have nothing to do with the company Tesla, apart from the fact that the car is of the Tesla brand. We have not ordered any work from Tesla, it is ordered by a completely independent workshop, which has also signed a collective agreement. What you do in this strike is that you use some form of juvenile schoolyard bullying where, in addition to making it difficult for the company, you also attack all customers, not indirectly but directly. As the car is not drivable and it is inside the workshop area where I have no access whatsoever, the car has in reality been seized by IF Metall."
 
The day before Werksta is taken out of the blockade, however, he receives new information: Werksta then claims that IF Metall has changed its mind, they will not be allowed to work on any Tesla at all, regardless of who is the customer or how far they have come on the work. The car must be moved out of the workshop premises. Werksta sets up a makeshift, unheated storage tent in the yard where his and other Tesla cars are placed. According to what he heard, IF Metall was not really satisfied with that arrangement either, in that the tent was still standing on Werksta's land, they really wanted the cars to go out on the street. Marcus's car was then completely disassembled from the back doors to the back. Werksta had started the assembly but had not had time to complete it.
Wow. IF Metall is some piece of work. And they probably aren't legally liable for any of it.

Werksta on the other hand, would likely be completely liable for any additional damage they caused by storing it outside in a disassembled state.

Marcus' car cost SEK 560,000. The damage after the collision was estimated at 200 thousand kroner. The replacement rental car Trygg-Hansa pays has already cost them over one hundred thousand kroner
In Sweden is the at fault party/insurance not responsible for the repair costs as well as replacement transportation during the repair? I would think that as this drags on that would end up with them totaling vehicles because the ongoing storage/rental costs built up.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bkp_duke
"That a strike affects third parties is completely reasonable and part of the game," says Marcus, "but in our case we have nothing to do with the company Tesla, apart from the fact that the car is of the Tesla brand. We have not ordered any work from Tesla, it is ordered by a completely independent workshop, which has also signed a collective agreement. What you do in this strike is that you use some form of juvenile schoolyard bullying where, in addition to making it difficult for the company, you also attack all customers, not indirectly but directly. As the car is not drivable and it is inside the workshop area where I have no access whatsoever, the car has in reality been seized by IF Metall."
Looks to me like a creative prosecuting attorney could charge IF Metall with theft or something along those lines. One thing to refuse to complete work that you started - a whole nother ball game to refuse access to somebody's property.

Again I don't know Swedish law and its pretty clear that culturally this isn't abhorrent (the person's quote that its part of the game). But its a bad look when a private entity is denying another private entity access to their own property, as well as requiring that it be stored in a manner that will make restoration to its original state impossible (that's my own guess - disassembled cars stored outside don't age well :D).


As this individual pointed out - sure looks like the school yard bully, and that's never a good look.
 
In Sweden is the at fault party/insurance not responsible for the repair costs as well as replacement transportation during the repair? I would think that as this drags on that would end up with them totaling vehicles because the ongoing storage/rental costs built up.
As both companies are scared of the union, neither will likely point fingers at the other party. Instead both with rack up cost and wait for the situation to clear which if we know Tesla and the Union will never happen. At some point they will likely decide to see who is at fault the legal way. I would not be surprised if this ends up with Werksta declaring bankrupcy and the insurance company will have to eat the loss while they and all the other parties(banks and investors will go first) fight about whatever is left of werksta. Any process like this will take years.

Don't think IF Metal has anything to worry about in this case financially. Except for losing a lot of goodwill and members.
 
As both companies are scared of the union, neither will likely point fingers at the other party. Instead both with rack up cost and wait for the situation to clear which if we know Tesla and the Union will never happen. At some point they will likely decide to see who is at fault the legal way. I would not be surprised if this ends up with Werksta declaring bankrupcy and the insurance company will have to eat the loss while they and all the other parties(banks and investors will go first) fight about whatever is left of werksta. Any process like this will take years.

Don't think IF Metal has anything to worry about in this case financially. Except for losing a lot of goodwill and members.

If the insurance company has a decent actuary, they will start totaling out these cars. That guy's repair costs + rental are already near 50% of the cost of a replacement.
 
Looking forward to reading an IF Metall press release about how, had they not done anything at all, the overall situation would have been so much worse for everyone. 🙄 (I wonder if they initially thought forcing Tesla to "sign zee papers" was going to be easy?)

Will there be growing push back over IF Metall's pointless disruption that eventually affects the union in a way they never anticipated? We can only hope.

They have certainly earned their comeuppance.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mengy and bkp_duke
A long story about a worker at Lear who was unionized and how the union and the union members caused lear to shut down their factory:
 
A long story about a worker at Lear who was unionized and how the union and the union members caused lear to shut down their factory:
Thanks for sharing - reading through the comments is interesting, too. There were, of course, one or two saying their experience was different 'on the floor', but this observation caught my eye:

"Swedish business likes the situation as it is. For decades, they have had an unholy alliance with LO and other trade unions that benefits both parties, at the expense of the wage earners.

The unions have power and influence, not least financially and politically, which they unabashedly channel on to the social workers. Swedish Business gets stability and total predictability, and not least no wage competition whatsoever.

The workers cannot vote with their feet. Changing jobs is in practice quite difficult, the labor market is extremely sluggish thanks to the unions, and what good would it do anyway? It is the same everywhere because of the mandatory collective agreements in practice.

The workers simply have to settle in and like the situation, and thanks to the insanely sluggish labor market, the most important thing is to keep the job you have. Finding another job if you were to lose your job is extremely much more difficult than in other comparable countries."

^To me, this provides some very interesting context for Sweden's labour situation, if it's accurate. (Also for context, they mention 'mandatory collective agreements' are not legally mandatory, but just mandatory in practice for factories).

Do others with experience in Sweden think the commenter is pretty accurate? It would make a lot of sense why Tesla would be a threat to other businesses, even, who don't want wage competition. Guess where all the best workers will go, and where the laziest ones will stay... Creating even more of an imbalance.
 
Based upon that tale, it may not matter at all if the laziest are the ones to stay. They will still be encouraged to perform at a level well below their capabilities.

Essentially, the unions have created a labor problem not easily overcome. If it is impossible for a person to choose to improve their situation by moving elsewhere and people are punished for taking pride in their work or feeling good about working hard for their employer, all hope is dashed. I suppose the close proximity of their neighbor to the East has played a role in forming these lowered expectations, without a better example close by to follow.

This is Alice in Wonderland stuff. Or, maybe something George Orwell dreamed up.

People, are a problem. People in power, doubly so.

Tesla has established an exponential growth profile based upon everyone working together to create and improve upon the product and company that brings them pride in self, pride in accomplishment, and pride in being a part of something so beneficial to the world.

Even China embraces Tesla because they understand how what they bring will improve the culture and solve a problem. Sweden, not so much.

Nations that have adopted these self-defeating alliances, as IF Metall represents with collective agreements, are doomed to lag behind the parts of the world where the light of Tesla shines the brightest and leaves a positive impact upon those which it shines.

An organization like IF Metall will never be able to make any such claim as to how their scheme leads to increased production, increased pay, and better communication between employee and employer resulting in exponential growth. Such an outcome goes directly against their very tenets for existence, or so it seems.

For human consciousness to excel it must first break free from the evolutionary habit of solely following the path of least resistance. That path only leads to mediocrity.
 
Based upon that tale, it may not matter at all if the laziest are the ones to stay. They will still be encouraged to perform at a level well below their capabilities.

Essentially, the unions have created a labor problem not easily overcome. If it is impossible for a person to choose to improve their situation by moving elsewhere and people are punished for taking pride in their work or feeling good about working hard for their employer, all hope is dashed. I suppose the close proximity of their neighbor to the East has played a role in forming these lowered expectations, without a better example close by to follow.

This is Alice in Wonderland stuff. Or, maybe something George Orwell dreamed up.

People, are a problem. People in power, doubly so.

Tesla has established an exponential growth profile based upon everyone working together to create and improve upon the product and company that brings them pride in self, pride in accomplishment, and pride in being a part of something so beneficial to the world.

Even China embraces Tesla because they understand how what they bring will improve the culture and solve a problem. Sweden, not so much.

Nations that have adopted these self-defeating alliances, as IF Metall represents with collective agreements, are doomed to lag behind the parts of the world where the light of Tesla shines the brightest and leaves a positive impact upon those which it shines.

An organization like IF Metall will never be able to make any such claim as to how their scheme leads to increased production, increased pay, and better communication between employee and employer resulting in exponential growth. Such an outcome goes directly against their very tenets for existence, or so it seems.

For human consciousness to excel it must first break free from the evolutionary habit of solely following the path of least resistance. That path only leads to mediocrity.
It actually doesn't sound that different than my uncle's experience in middle management at Ford Canada. He'd get in trouble with his coworkers/union if he did more work than the others. It's 20 years ago, so I don't remember details precisely, but he would get through his quota of tasks in 4-5 hours, and so had to play solitaire/shoot the breeze with coworkers for the rest of the shift. He made good money, but didn't feel fulfilled and retired early...