Tesla Unionization

[Cobos]

But it is allowed as you mention here: "So as mentioned earlier Norwegian dockworkers will not allow Tesla Sweden to avoid the strike in Sweden by undocking swedish bound Teslas in Norway and drive them to Sweden."

The Norwegian dockworkers - Fellesforbundet(United Federation of Trade Unions) which includes car workshops, is affiliated with LO Landsorganisasjonen i Norge (Norwegian Confederation of Trade Unions) which is affiliated with ITUC (International Trade Union Confederation) and ETUC (European Trade Union Confederation)

IF Metall is affiliated with LO Landsorganisationen i Sverige (Swedish Trade Union Confederation) which is affiliated with ITUC and ETUC.

Both LO Norge and LO Sverige use similar logos. View attachment 1002590 View attachment 1002591

I think you see the network here.




Neither are the Norwegian dockworkers, it's a sympathy strike.



But the Norwegian dockworkers are allowed to interfere? This makes no sense.



"Hydro Sweden" is Hydro Extrusions in Vetalnda, Sweden which is a subsidiary of Norwegian company Hydro.

Actually its the Nordic system of sympathy strikes because it has included Norway, Finland, Sweden and Denmark.

Yeah I see I was unprecise. Yes as you mention sympathy actions seems to be legal in Norway. But the issue with Hydro Extrusions in Vetlanda would be extremely unusual (and propably illegal), because that is a sympathy strike against Tesla Germany/Tesla Inc not against Tesla Sweden which is the part of the conflict. And I'm watching Norwegian media and there hasn't been any mention of the strike in Sweden here in Norway last week as far as I've seen.
So my impression has been that Norwegian unions wants to show solidarity, and sympathy for something that is pretty unlikely, so it's mostly for the optics.

Transporting the cars from Berlin to Stockholm is just 14 hours by car transport, while Oslo Harbor to Stockholm is about 7 hours so going through Oslo can't make much sense. For the US and China origin cars they probably transship them in Zeebrugge now but will transport from there by train or car transport for a slightly longer time. We are talking adding another day barely. And as Samppa said through Finland makes no sense at all. So the strikes sympathy strikes in the other Nordic countries doesn't really affect Tesla. But it looks good in the media for people that doesn't know how to read a map or think about logistics. And the pretty large amount of deliveries for Tesla Sweden tells the same story. They are braking records.

 

[Krugerrand]

Just wanted to remind, the sympathy striking of Hydro Extrusions didn’t stop Tesla Berlin. As I had suggested early on when some people thought ‘oh,no!’ Tesla simply had another supplier fill that gap.

So, I went looking and it turns out Hydro Extrusions has several business locations around the world. Who wants to bet Tesla just called up China Hydro Extrusions who are perhaps already supplying Shanghai the same part and told them to increase and ship extra to Berlin.

 

[TSemi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1738897088178528287

https://twitter.com/x/status/1738916781014536564

 

[2daMoon]

Just wanted to remind, the sympathy striking of Hydro Extrusions didn’t stop Tesla Berlin. As I had suggested early on when some people thought ‘oh,no!’ Tesla simply had another supplier fill that gap.

So, I went looking and it turns out Hydro Extrusions has several business locations around the world. Who wants to bet Tesla just called up China Hydro Extrusions who are perhaps already supplying Shanghai the same part and told them to increase and ship extra to Berlin.

I'm sure the 20 union employees who lost their jobs at Hydro must be feeling very sympathetic this Christmas for the half dozen Tesla union employees striking in Sweden who, with the help of their unions, cost them their jobs.

Unions never cease to amaze with the plethora of benefits they provide for their members. /s

Happy holidays!

It would seem perfectly reasonable for those jobs to come back for the Hydro workers once IF Metall feels adequate enough embarrassment to finally give up on their extortion gambit

 

[Zuikkis]

So, I went looking and it turns out Hydro Extrusions has several business locations around the world. Who wants to bet Tesla just called up China Hydro Extrusions who are perhaps already supplying Shanghai the same part and told them to increase and ship extra to Berlin.

Yes, exactly that. It was confirmed in X. Tesla still buys from Hydro but now from China instead of Sweden.

"The latest information is that Hydro in Vetlanda is now, just in time for Christmas, allowed to send employees home as the union's strike action has destroyed this business. Vela-Pekka Säikkälä was out in the media beating his chest about how this is hurting Tesla, this too is a pure lie. It doesn't hurt Tesla, Tesla has already shifted and is now taking this product from Hydro in China. The deal stays within the Hydro group, but 20 jobs, knowledge and tax revenue disappeared directly from Sweden."

 

[heltok]

Yes, exactly that. It was confirmed in X. Tesla still buys from Hydro but now from China instead of Sweden.

"The latest information is that Hydro in Vetlanda is now, just in time for Christmas, allowed to send employees home as the union's strike action has destroyed this business. Vela-Pekka Säikkälä was out in the media beating his chest about how this is hurting Tesla, this too is a pure lie. It doesn't hurt Tesla, Tesla has already shifted and is now taking this product from Hydro in China. The deal stays within the Hydro group, but 20 jobs, knowledge and tax revenue disappeared directly from Sweden."

Those 20 jobs are nothing compared to the number of future jobs that will be lost by the myopic action... And not just by future suppliers of Giga Berlin as it ramps but by any company without CA, by American companies, by Chinese companies, by European companies etc...

 

[Mengy]

Yes, exactly that. It was confirmed in X. Tesla still buys from Hydro but now from China instead of Sweden.

"The latest information is that Hydro in Vetlanda is now, just in time for Christmas, allowed to send employees home as the union's strike action has destroyed this business. Vela-Pekka Säikkälä was out in the media beating his chest about how this is hurting Tesla, this too is a pure lie. It doesn't hurt Tesla, Tesla has already shifted and is now taking this product from Hydro in China. The deal stays within the Hydro group, but 20 jobs, knowledge and tax revenue disappeared directly from Sweden."

So, more people have lost their jobs due to sympathy strikes than there are actual union Tesla employees on strike?

The level of idiocy displayed by IF Metall here is astounding, and appalling. What a waste.

 

[GLDYLX]

Maybe this is why Russia is thriving, there they respect the haves, and have-nots shut up or put up. /s

Stockholm Syndrome? /also s

Happy Holidays!

 

[Just a Reader]

Hydro Extrusions has more than 20,000 employees globally and more than 1,000 employees in Sweden. Is there any confirmed report about any jobs lost at Hydro Extrusions in Sweden or are these just the assumptions of American anti-union ideologues? I would be quite surprised if the loss of such a small order would lead to job losses. It's not least thanks to the unions that employers cannot easily fire employees that way.
I'm waiting for unionisation to get serious at Tesla Berlin.
BTW, isn't Tesla Sweden trying to hire someone to lobby for regulatory change in the Nordics?
An American right-wing ideologue billionaire trying to change union legislation in the Nordics, I'm sure that will go down well with the public.

 

[2daMoon]

Hydro Extrusions has more than 20,000 employees globally and more than 1,000 employees in Sweden. Is there any confirmed report about any jobs lost at Hydro Extrusions in Sweden or are these just the assumptions of American anti-union ideologues? I would be quite surprised if the loss of such a small order would lead to job losses. It's not least thanks to the unions that employers cannot easily fire employees that way.
I'm waiting for unionisation to get serious at Tesla Berlin.
BTW, isn't Tesla Sweden trying to hire someone to lobby for regulatory change in the Nordics?
An American right-wing ideologue billionaire trying to change union legislation in the Nordics, I'm sure that will go down well with the public.

That offers a valid perspective to consider. Is there any basis to the claim of lost workers? It seems like there could be, but, that is not proof.

On the other hand, the most important takeaway is that when Hydro Sweden stopped production for GigaBerlin, and Hydro China stepped up to fill the gap, what effect did this have on Hydro Sweden?

Questions remain regarding how significant was the hit to Hydro Sweden when they ceased production for Tesla in order to accommodate the sympathy measures? Were any employees' hours cut back? Were any jobs paused for the duration of the strike? Did the union step in and compensate those affected by supplementing for lost wages?

As for the Tesla Sweden job search, it seems like the right way to approach the scenario created by IF Metall. Learning the letter, and the more subtle nuances, of the law will offer insight and avoid directing efforts toward strategies that might not bring the desired result.

From a strictly "first principles" view, it doesn't look like Tesla (personified as Elon) is specifically trying to change union legislation at all.

First principles dictate that the existing union's functional efficiency be placed in the light to see if it is serving the claimed purpose, or, find that it could be improved.

If, under open scrutiny, the union, its members, and/or the public at large determine there might be a better way for the union to operate that benefits the worker, the employer, and maybe even the union in a more positive way it would be foolish to ignore this.

All current appearances indicate this union action is a pure power play designed to garner support from a public who may not be presented enough data to have an informed opinion. This has led to push-back from some government and other union decision makers asking for more clarity regarding the goals IF Metall is striving for. This is good. If the strike is based in service to the worker, the business and the union, all is well. If not, what is the basis? If it is partly or solely to increase the union's power over the employee, the employer, and the narrative the public sees, perhaps this should be addressed either from within, or, from outside IF Metall as a last resort.

I've pointed out how IF Metall has abundantly used generalizations in their propaganda campaign, avoiding particulars that should be crucial for providing justification for their actions.

This opinion of mine must be tempered by the fact that I'm not getting the story first hand, or even in the original language. Though it seems that enough of those close to the action concur with there being a fishy odor to all of this.

Hence my continuing to make popcorn and watch this unfold. Sunlight is a wonderful disinfectant and should be employed liberally in getting to the bottom of what this drama is actually about.

To borrow from Hamlet, IF Metall doth protest too much, methinks.
pun intended

 

[heltok]

Fro lm previous post:

The aluminum company Hydro Extrusions has a collective agreement but is still involved in IF Metall's strike. The reason: they make an important component for Tesla's cars.The company has had to get rid of people and is worried about losing Tesla as a customer. IF Metall, on the other hand, believes that one acts with "surgical precision".The company is owned by the Norwegian giant Hydro and has 850 employees in Vetlanda and Finspång. They manufacture customized aluminum profiles in all sizes and for everything from the construction industry to trains. One of the customers is Tesla, but those deliveries have been stopped for almost two weeks. A consequence of IF metall's ongoing conflict with the electric car giant.- It has affected us from day one in that we lose revenue and that in an already strained economic time. But the concern for the future is greater. Aluminum parts for electric cars is a strongly growing market, and if the strike goes on for a long time, it could reduce the confidence of Swedish suppliers. Then other suppliers will take over, says Jonas Bjuhr, CEO of Hydro Extrusions Sweden.How many employees are covered by the fact that you are not allowed to handle Tesla goods?- About 20, above all in Vetlanda, and we have so far been able to move them to other departments. But if this goes on for a long time, there is an absolute risk of redundancies, we have already been given permission to reduce the number of hired employees.

 

[Buckminster]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1739491490001305993

As expected thinking from Elon

 

[TSemi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1739491490001305993

As expected thinking from Elon

Yes, it's well known Elon Musk's viewpoint on unions. Do you disagree?

 

[Zuikkis]

IF Metall's contract secretary Veli-Pekka Säikkälä:
- If Tesla does not have to have a collective agreement, others will question why they should have it. If they can go to the side, they will have a competitive situation that makes it more beneficial for them than for Bilia and Hedin's car.

An old message but it got me thinking. This is quite weird statement from Säikkälä. Hedin is the company that imports and sells many brands, like Mercedes, Kia, Ford, MG, Byd.. Especially these chinese EV brands MG and BYD are direct competition to Tesla, and then there's also Mercedes EQ series and many Kia and Ford EV models. Bilia also sells many brands, including Volvo and VW. Why mention exactly those two?

You know collective bargaining agreements are not permanent, they are usually renewed every few years. Maybe Säikkälä's text should say "have questioned" instead of "will question"? If Hedin and Bilia have said they will cancel the deal if Tesla doesn't get one, IF Metall really has no choice but to try to hit Tesla as hard as possible. Getting Tesla to sign might be secondary objective, main point is to show muscles for other companies ..

 

[Rarity]

An old message but it got me thinking. This is quite weird statement from Säikkälä. Hedin is the company that imports and sells many brands, like Mercedes, Kia, Ford, MG, Byd.. Especially these chinese EV brands MG and BYD are direct competition to Tesla, and then there's also Mercedes EQ series and many Kia and Ford EV models. Bilia also sells many brands, including Volvo and VW. Why mention exactly those two?

You know collective bargaining agreements are not permanent, they are usually renewed every few years. Maybe Säikkälä's text should say "have questioned" instead of "will question"? If Hedin and Bilia have said they will cancel the deal if Tesla doesn't get one, IF Metall really has no choice but to try to hit Tesla as hard as possible. Getting Tesla to sign might be secondary objective, main point is to show muscles for other companies ..

To be effective, a bully needs to go after the weakest. Did IF Metall believe Hedin and Bilia were stronger than Tesla? Or does IF Metall need to brush up on their bullying skills?

 

[TSemi]

Question: Why do so many people think that Elon Musk acts alone and separate from Tesla Inc.?

The Board of Directors at Tesla could direct Elon to give in to IF Metalls demands for a CBA.

I guess that is some sort of strategy to separate/isolate Elon from Tesla because so many really like Tesla cars including Swedes that want Tesla to give in to IF Metall's demands for a CBA.

Maybe they think if Elon was not CEO of Tesla it would be easier to get their demands?

It is also easier to "put a face or person" as their target instead of an entity in their struggle against Tesla.

Eva Burmans nyårsönskan - att IF Metall sätter Musk på plats

Elon Musks tal om yttrandefriheten är bara tomma ord. Det enda han är intresserad av är att tjäna mer pengar. Därför försöker han tysta sina anställda.

da.se

My New Year's wish: That IF Metall puts Elon Musk in place​

December 28, 2023

Written by Eva Burman


LEADER IF Metall cannot bow down now, writes Dagens Arbetes editor-in-chief Eva Burman.

2023 was the year IF Metall went on strike to protect the Swedish model. A model our grandparents fought bloody for. A model Swedish employer considers himself lucky for today.

In the absence of chaos, order prevails, as is well known.

Collective agreements regulate employees' right to reasonable employment conditions. And as thanks for that there is a duty of peace. Wildcat strikes are prohibited.

The collective agreement entitles you to fair wages, compensation for inconvenient working hours or overtime compensation. But also pension, insurance and compensation for parental leave and illness.

The agreement also regulates how changes are to be negotiated at work.

But IF Metall's strike is not only about money and time.

It is also about the battle for the word. And the view of freedom.

Elon Musk is a libertarian . But not in its exact sense. He navigates more in some kind of "survival of the fittest" version. A world where the best adapted take it all.

And Elon Musk has certainly adapted. And he has taken it all.

Today he is the world's richest man . And he respectfully sh*ts on everything called fair conditions on the labor market.

Only he can – earn – some – more – steals.

Therefore, something as obviously libertarian as freedom of speech becomes impossible in Elon Musk's world, regardless of what he himself claims. The man who bought Twitter to "protect freedom of expression", as he considered it threatened if it was not free from rules, has since started charging.

Elon Musk has put a permanent gag on his employees. Before Christmas, the DA could tell how Tesla threatened a mechanic for violating the employment contract when he tweeted about the strike on Musk's own platform X, formerly Twitter.

Elon Musk and Tesla can wave their stock option program as much as they want to appease employees. Tesla themselves say that they do not need a collective agreement as their agreement is better.

For who?

In fact, Tesla's employment contract is pure slavery. The dispossessed are serfs, which many people turn a blind eye to. Or maybe not even realize, as the agreements are up to 70 pages long, in business English.

If they change jobs, they must be punished. Hard.

It's actually quite insane.

Do we want it like this in the Swedish labor market?

No , say several heavy pension companies and shareholders in Tesla. A few days ago, Volvo's outgoing chairman Carl-Henric Svanberg went out and urged Tesla to take leave.

- If you are in a country, you have to follow the country's rules and traditions, he told DI .

IF Metall cannot back down now.

How important it is is shown by all sympathy measures from other unions. And it is in battles like this that the number of members in a union becomes decisive.

Alone is not strong.

The question is whether we have forgotten it.

My New Year's wish for 2024 is that the trade union movement in little Sweden puts the colossus Elon Musk in place. Which one is yours?




"the colossus Elon Musk"

 

[Tiger]

Question: Why do so many people think that Elon Musk acts alone and separate from Tesla Inc.?

The Board of Directors at Tesla could direct Elon to give in to IF Metalls demands for a CBA.

I guess that is some sort of strategy to separate/isolate Elon from Tesla because so many really like Tesla cars including Swedes that want Tesla to give in to IF Metall's demands for a CBA.

Maybe they think if Elon was not CEO of Tesla it would be easier to get their demands?

It is also easier to "put a face or person" as their target instead of an entity in their struggle against Tesla.

Eva Burmans nyårsönskan - att IF Metall sätter Musk på plats

Elon Musks tal om yttrandefriheten är bara tomma ord. Det enda han är intresserad av är att tjäna mer pengar. Därför försöker han tysta sina anställda.

da.se

My New Year's wish: That IF Metall puts Elon Musk in place​

December 28, 2023

Written by Eva Burman


LEADER IF Metall cannot bow down now, writes Dagens Arbetes editor-in-chief Eva Burman.

2023 was the year IF Metall went on strike to protect the Swedish model. A model our grandparents fought bloody for. A model Swedish employer considers himself lucky for today.

In the absence of chaos, order prevails, as is well known.

Collective agreements regulate employees' right to reasonable employment conditions. And as thanks for that there is a duty of peace. Wildcat strikes are prohibited.

The collective agreement entitles you to fair wages, compensation for inconvenient working hours or overtime compensation. But also pension, insurance and compensation for parental leave and illness.

The agreement also regulates how changes are to be negotiated at work.

But IF Metall's strike is not only about money and time.

It is also about the battle for the word. And the view of freedom.

Elon Musk is a libertarian . But not in its exact sense. He navigates more in some kind of "survival of the fittest" version. A world where the best adapted take it all.

And Elon Musk has certainly adapted. And he has taken it all.

Today he is the world's richest man . And he respectfully sh*ts on everything called fair conditions on the labor market.

Only he can – earn – some – more – steals.

Therefore, something as obviously libertarian as freedom of speech becomes impossible in Elon Musk's world, regardless of what he himself claims. The man who bought Twitter to "protect freedom of expression", as he considered it threatened if it was not free from rules, has since started charging.

Elon Musk has put a permanent gag on his employees. Before Christmas, the DA could tell how Tesla threatened a mechanic for violating the employment contract when he tweeted about the strike on Musk's own platform X, formerly Twitter.

Elon Musk and Tesla can wave their stock option program as much as they want to appease employees. Tesla themselves say that they do not need a collective agreement as their agreement is better.

For who?

In fact, Tesla's employment contract is pure slavery. The dispossessed are serfs, which many people turn a blind eye to. Or maybe not even realize, as the agreements are up to 70 pages long, in business English.

If they change jobs, they must be punished. Hard.

It's actually quite insane.

Do we want it like this in the Swedish labor market?

No , say several heavy pension companies and shareholders in Tesla. A few days ago, Volvo's outgoing chairman Carl-Henric Svanberg went out and urged Tesla to take leave.

- If you are in a country, you have to follow the country's rules and traditions, he told DI .

IF Metall cannot back down now.

How important it is is shown by all sympathy measures from other unions. And it is in battles like this that the number of members in a union becomes decisive.

Alone is not strong.

The question is whether we have forgotten it.

My New Year's wish for 2024 is that the trade union movement in little Sweden puts the colossus Elon Musk in place. Which one is yours?




"the colossus Elon Musk"

Tesla should respond to this also on X:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1740097070789198241

 

[2daMoon]

Question: Why do so many people think that Elon Musk acts alone and separate from Tesla Inc.?

The Board of Directors at Tesla could direct Elon to give in to IF Metalls demands for a CBA.

I guess that is some sort of strategy to separate/isolate Elon from Tesla because so many really like Tesla cars including Swedes that want Tesla to give in to IF Metall's demands for a CBA.

Maybe they think if Elon was not CEO of Tesla it would be easier to get their demands?

It is also easier to "put a face or person" as their target instead of an entity in their struggle against Tesla.

But wait, there's more...

My New Year's wish: That IF Metall puts Elon Musk in place
December 28, 2023

Written by Eva Burman


LEADER IF Metall cannot bow down now, writes Dagens Arbetes editor-in-chief Eva Burman.

2023 was the year IF Metall went on strike to protect the Swedish model. A model our grandparents fought bloody for. A model Swedish employer considers himself lucky for today.

In the absence of chaos, order prevails, as is well known.

Which is a better example of "order":

• supporting a union that cannot or will not offer data to support how beneficial they are to employees, employer, and to business growth, or;
• attacking one of the fastest growing, most technologically disruptive companies who have established both employee and customer loyalty (backed by data) and whose goal is to improve things for the entire human race.

Collective agreements regulate employees' right to reasonable employment conditions. And as thanks for that there is a duty of peace. Wildcat strikes are prohibited.

The collective agreement entitles you to fair wages, compensation for inconvenient working hours or overtime compensation. But also pension, insurance and compensation for parental leave and illness.

The agreement also regulates how changes are to be negotiated at work.

... and, The agreement will be enforced without regard to how effective it is or isn't for business growth and productivity.

Such matters as profit, reduced waste, employee morale, and strengthening relationships are key to providing "fair wages, compensation for inconvenient working hours and overtime (due to increases in productivity), as well as pension, insurance, and compensation for parental leave and illness"

Conveniently absent is the mention of how employee ownership in the company (via stock options) encourages a focus on finding ways to increase production and apply cost saving measures, taking pride in one's work, and strengthens a friendly relationship between management and workers.

But IF Metall's strike is not only about money and time.

It is also about the battle for the word. And the view of freedom.

Elon Musk is a libertarian . But not in its exact sense. He navigates more in some kind of "survival of the fittest" version. A world where the best adapted take it all.

Yes, let's speak of the long history of evolution (survival of the fittest) that has led to the creation and improvement of every living thing on Earth as if it is a bad thing and should be tossed into the bin so that IF Metall can choose what suits their scheme instead.

And Elon Musk has certainly adapted. And he has taken it all.

Today he is the world's richest man . And he respectfully sh*ts on everything called fair conditions on the labor market.

Only he can – earn – some – more – steals.

Therefore, something as obviously libertarian as freedom of speech becomes impossible in Elon Musk's world, regardless of what he himself claims. The man who bought Twitter to "protect freedom of expression", as he considered it threatened if it was not free from rules, has since started charging.

Elon Musk has put a permanent gag on his employees. Before Christmas, the DA could tell how Tesla threatened a mechanic for violating the employment contract when he tweeted about the strike on Musk's own platform X, formerly Twitter.

Oh? Let's talk about the complete absence of data to support how IF Metall can be shown to improve things over time for the employees, management, and the business itself by tracking accepted measures for key indicators of growth and prosperity for these groups before and after entering into collective agreements.

How do union/agreement-centric businesses stack up against those with no agreement, or, those with low (<10%) union participation?

This information shouldn't be difficult to gather.

Elon Musk and Tesla can wave their stock option program as much as they want to appease employees. Tesla themselves say that they do not need a collective agreement as their agreement is better.

For who?

In fact, Tesla's employment contract is pure slavery. The dispossessed are serfs, which many people turn a blind eye to. Or maybe not even realize, as the agreements are up to 70 pages long, in business English.

That is pretty funny stuff. Pure slavery, huh? Were these employees captured and brought in chains to work at Tesla? If so, surely IF Metall can produce evidence of this.

Whereas a "collective agreement" is only a form of "indentured servitude." One where a disinterested third party is allowed to stoke discord between employee and employer, and, as a part of the board may slow a business from adopting Agile methods simply by being bogged down in red tape to meet the terms of the contract.

Perhaps this is not the case, but, neither those businesses who have happily joined collective agreements, nor IF Metall are rushing in with examples supporting how the collective agreement has shown a clear and indisputable benefit for all involved.

If they change jobs, they must be punished. Hard.

It's actually quite insane.

Do we want it like this in the Swedish labor market?

Specific examples, please?

Empty rhetoric rots on the vine fairly quickly.

No , say several heavy pension companies and shareholders in Tesla. A few days ago, Volvo's outgoing chairman Carl-Henric Svanberg went out and urged Tesla to take leave.

- If you are in a country, you have to follow the country's rules and traditions, he told DI .

No, you don't have to follow rules and traditions, unless they are part of law dictating so. Free people are allowed to do whatever they choose, so long as they do no measurable harm to another in the process. A test IF Metall may not score well on.

This is how countries develop, grow, and prosper. Those who are unable to shift and adopt to an evolving landscape remain stuck doing the same thing over and over and expecting to achieve a different result. That, would be evidence of insanity.

IF Metall cannot back down now.

Neither can IF Metall provide clear evidence in the form of measurable data to support that what they offer is actually good for anyone.

Nor, do they seem open to the idea that introspection and the possibility of change from within might even be an option that can be considered.

 

[Patrick66]

Question: Why do so many people think that Elon Musk acts alone and separate from Tesla Inc.?

The Board of Directors at Tesla could direct Elon to give in to IF Metalls demands for a CBA.

Technically the Board can only really fire Elon; he is empowered to act in the company's best interests as he sees fit. The Board can't be responsible for the operations of the company, just its management team.

I guess that is some sort of strategy to separate/isolate Elon from Tesla because so many really like Tesla cars including Swedes that want Tesla to give in to IF Metall's demands for a CBA.

Interesting point. It is easier to make it about Elon than Tesla for IF Metall. That works in the eyes of the general public (as 50% of them hate him), but everything I have seen is that it backfires with Tesla employees.

Personally I think the approach will backfire though. IF Metall can't bring enough pressure to make Tesla Inc suffer-- just TM Sweden. They take this action primarily at the expense of Tesla customers though, which is unlikely to be a winning hand.

 

[TSemi]

Technically the Board can only really fire Elon; he is empowered to act in the company's best interests as he sees fit. The Board can't be responsible for the operations of the company, just its management team.

Interesting point. It is easier to make it about Elon than Tesla for IF Metall. That works in the eyes of the general public (as 50% of them hate him), but everything I have seen is that it backfires with Tesla employees.

Personally I think the approach will backfire though. IF Metall can't bring enough pressure to make Tesla Inc suffer-- just TM Sweden. They take this action primarily at the expense of Tesla customers though, which is unlikely to be a winning hand.

Technically the Board can only really fire Elon; he is empowered to act in the company's best interests as he sees fit. The Board can't be responsible for the operations of the company, just its management team.

You are correct. Wrong wording on my part. I was thinking about how in some past cases Board of Directors(even individual members) have had *influence* on company operations.

That works in the eyes of the general public (as 50% of them hate him)

50% of general public hate Elon......hmmm, could be I guess now. That goes to show, imho, how much influence the media have on the general public.

I remember when Elon was the darling of *certain political-types*, hey he even hosted SNL! But that all went by the wayside when he bought Twitter and "cleaned house" so to speak. Now those *certain political-types* and almost all the media despise Elon and look for every opportunity to put a hit piece out on him(and Tesla, SpaceX, Starlink, etc.).

A person doesn't have to agree with everything Elon says or has said, I understand that. But I don't understand the seemingly seething hatred, the vitriol aimed at Elon Musk. But hey I digress.

but everything I have seen is that it backfires with Tesla employees.

This makes sense because Tesla employees aren't as subject to IF Metall propagnda as the general public. Just peer pressure from their fellow Swedes.

IF Metall can't bring enough pressure to make Tesla Inc suffer-- just TM Sweden. They take this action primarily at the expense of Tesla customers though, which is unlikely to be a winning hand.

IF Metall is invoking a dilemma for some Swedish Tesla owners. Who do support more, Tesla or the Swedish tradition of CBA?