Tesla V10 software update rollout: post here if you are still waiting

[notAnExpert]

..
What I take issue with (and what I should have been more clear about), was all the crap guys have been posting about how delayed various features of AP/FSD are.

Sure, call out the flaws. But be realistic when it comes to solving the extremely difficult problem that is driving automation.

The challenge for me is that I don't really know exactly how difficult a problem driving automation is. I'd guess most of us don't. We are not knowledgeable enough to set our own realistic expectations. Many us are professionals, probably very good in our chosen areas of specialty, but not in driving automation technology. So we make judgements and set expectations based on what Tesla/Musk says.

When Musk claimed in 2017 that by the end of the year the car would drive itself from coast to coast without the driver having to touch the wheel, we took that as Tesla being close to solving driving automation. When he said back in Feb/Mar this year that Enhanced Summon was "coming next week", we assumed that Tesla had solved parking lot automation issue. When they say that the car will recognize stop lights and stop signs and drive itself on city streets "later this year", we take that as a sign that they are close to solving city driving. We were told a few months ago that there would be over a million robotaxi capable Teslas on the road by next year. At the investor event, they even published a video of a self driving car from Tesla headquarters in Palo Alto taking surface streets and then the highway, back to Tesla. For years, their marketing prose has made it sound as though regulations would be the real bottleneck of autonomous driving, and not their technology. There is a pattern of Tesla/Musk setting schedule expectations regarding self driving.

When a company gets several thousand dollars from a customer after setting such expectations, it doesn't seem right to blame the customer when they express their disappointment.

 

[diplomat33]

Ah, but I thought you once posted the next update, after 2019.32.2.2, would be 2019.32.2.11?

Not quite. Here is what I said:

Because the next update version on Teslafi after my version is 2019.32.2.11 which EA V10. Sure, it is possible that Tesla could push another update before V10 like 2019.32.3 or something but if 2019.32.2.11 is EA V10 then 2019.36 will probably be the V10 wide release.

At the time of my post, 2019.32.2.11 was the next update after 2019.32.2.2 but I say that Tesla could push another intermediary update like 2019.32.2.3.

 

[jebinc]

The challenge for me is that I don't really know exactly how difficult a problem driving automation is. I'd guess most of us don't. We are not knowledgeable enough to set our own realistic expectations. Many us are professionals, probably very good in our chosen areas of specialty, but not in driving automation technology. So we make judgements and set expectations based on what Tesla/Musk says.

When Musk claimed in 2017 that by the end of the year the car would drive itself from coast to coast without the driver having to touch the wheel, we took that as Tesla being close to solving driving automation. When he said back in Feb/Mar this year that Enhanced Summon was "coming next week", we assumed that Tesla had solved parking lot automation issue. When they say that the car will recognize stop lights and stop signs and drive itself on city streets "later this year", we take that as a sign that they are close to solving city driving. We were told a few months ago that there would be over a million robotaxi capable Teslas on the road by next year. At the investor event, they even published a video of a self driving car from Tesla headquarters in Palo Alto taking surface streets and then the highway, back to Tesla. For years, their marketing prose has made it sound as though regulations would be the real bottleneck of autonomous driving, and not their technology. There is a pattern of Tesla/Musk setting schedule expectations regarding self driving.

When a company gets several thousand dollars from a customer after setting such expectations, it doesn't seem right to blame the customer when they express their disappointment.

1. Don't forget the pronouncement that FSD prices are going up on 8/16 (msg used to drive more cash in for FSD sales)
2. FSD is more than a few thousand dollars - more like a couple of few thousand dollars (i.e., $6000, to be exact)

 

[SammichLover]

True but only because my hobby is spying the internet for the latest Tesla scoop. If I find something, I will definitely let you all know about it.

EDIT: 2019.32.2.4 is still V9 according to a post on another forum. I suspect the wide release for V10 will be a number bigger than 32 like 2019.36. The second number usually goes in increments of 4.

The number following 2019. appears to be the week number of the week it originates in, internally. A four week cycle for a major-ish iteration would be fairly normal. Then they increment the numbers after that for minor fix builds.

 

[jebinc]

Not quite. Here is what I said:



At the time of my post, 2019.32.2.11 was the next update after 2019.32.2.2 but I say that Tesla could push another intermediary update like 2019.32.2.3.

I know, I was just shaking your tree!

 

[Phlier]

The challenge for me is that I don't really know exactly how difficult a problem driving automation is. I'd guess most of us don't. We are not knowledgeable enough to set our own realistic expectations. Many us are professionals, probably very good in our chosen areas of specialty, but not in driving automation technology. So we make judgements and set expectations based on what Tesla/Musk says.

When Musk claimed in 2017 that by the end of the year the car would drive itself from coast to coast without the driver having to touch the wheel, we took that as Tesla being close to solving driving automation. When he said back in Feb/Mar this year that Enhanced Summon was "coming next week", we assumed that Tesla had solved parking lot automation issue. When they say that the car will recognize stop lights and stop signs and drive itself on city streets "later this year", we take that as a sign that they are close to solving city driving. We were told a few months ago that there would be over a million robotaxi capable Teslas on the road by next year. At the investor event, they even published a video of a self driving car from Tesla headquarters in Palo Alto taking surface streets and then the highway, back to Tesla. For years, their marketing prose has made it sound as though regulations would be the real bottleneck of autonomous driving, and not their technology. There is a pattern of Tesla/Musk setting schedule expectations regarding self driving.

When a company gets several thousand dollars from a customer after setting such expectations, it doesn't seem right to blame the customer when they express their disappointment.

Very well said. When all the public has to go on is what Elon says, it is very reasonable to expect him to be called out on it. Elon has done a very poor job of handling the promotion of self driving, for sure.

And you are definitely correct in that the public just doesn't know how hard this is. I'm still not fully sure that Elon himself knows how hard it is, but his eyes are opening a little more every day in the realization that this isn't just programming a chess game; this is getting a computer to handle and solve problems in the same way that a human's "neural net" does.

Elon would do his company a very big favor by holding some sort of press event, wherein he comes right out and says, "Wow, this is just so much harder than we thought. I apologize for my unrealistic timelines, and all I can tell you at this point is that it'll be done when it's done. No more timelines, just sure and steady progress toward the goal. We'll keep everyone updated with what we're working on, and how it's going."

Darn it, I guess I'm going to have to cut people more slack when it comes to these type of posts. Man, I hate it when someone changes my opinion about something.

Again, very well said.

Even so... c'mon, guys. This is revolutionary, ground breaking, paradigm shifting stuff. Let's cut them some slack, and let them work. Tesla had the guts to tackle an industry so hobbled by its own inertia it couldn't get out of its own way. They may have not understood exactly how hard the whole self driving thing is to pull off, but look at all they have achieved so far. I'm not going to type it all out here, but I will sum it up by saying they have produced the finest car I've ever driven/not driven. That is no small thing to achieve. And if they can produce the finest car I've ever driven, I do think they'll be able to make it drive itself.... eventually.

 

[diplomat33]

Elon would do his company a very big favor by holding some sort of press event, wherein he comes right out and says, "Wow, this is just so much harder than we thought. I apologize for my unrealistic timelines, and all I can tell you at this point is that it'll be done when it's done. No more timelines, just sure and steady progress toward the goal. We'll keep everyone updated with what we're working on, and how it's going."

I agree except for the apology part. Public apologies can be misconstrued. But Elon should stick to concrete updates of what is actually completed, no timelines, no projections. And yes, I do wish Tesla would give more periodic updates on FSD. Nothing super elaborate like Autonomy Investor Day. Tesla could put out monthly blogs either written blogs or video blogs with a quick update on what the dev team is working on that month. Something like that could be very helpful I think.

 

[Phlier]

Public apologies can be misconstrued.

Especially when it comes to Tesla. The bears can take Elon having a head cold and turn it into terminal cancer.

 

[curry684]

The issue is that the web developer accidently put a bullet point in the wrong paragraph and it got through QC.

View attachment 456569

Well, it was in the bottom section of "late this year" back when I ordered in March this year. In the Dutch page, localized to the Netherlands. Where enhanced summon is nowhere close to regulatory approval due to UNECE crap which everybody at Tesla damn well knew at the time.

So yeah, love my Model 3, AP is awesome, car is awesome, love it every day I get to drive it.

BUT the FSD marketing here in Europe is most certainly deceptive. Never would have paid for FSD had I known the likelihood of enhanced summon and no-stalk lane change being legal here before 2021 appears to be zero. Added value of FSD is negligible here sadly.

Edit: let's be fully clear - I'm not blaming Tesla for anything they are doing with FSD. All the videos I've seen are awesome and I think I paid a fair price for what FSD can do today and will be able to do in the future. I'm just blaming them for not having an honest page around, linked from the order page, with a table detailing regulatory restrictions and expectations on when they will be expanded or lifted. The tech is great. EU regulators are idiots. Tesla is kinda stuck in between with this awesome product that has little value due to the idiots.

 

[curry684]

Ok just took a fresh screenshot and yes this is deception in my book.


The circles are around the fact that this the actual order page for the Netherlands, and the features that are unlikely to work anytime soon in any country you can realistically drive to from the Netherlands.

The UNECE committee on ADAS is apparently meeting next week. On the agenda: granting some extra seconds to complete a manually initiated lane change, and somewhat improving the maximum speed allowed in highway turns. Pathetic.

 

[WilliamG]

Watch out, the fanboys will flame you for stating the facts. Emotions reign supreme in this thread the past 24 hours. Remember, "... don’t let the facts ruin a good story..." Or it's related cousin, "...don’t let facts and data set you free..."

Edit: @WilliamG - I suspect the next reply will be, "You should have done your research before buying the car (or FSD package), not believe what's on the Tesla ordering page... It's YOUR fault, not Tesla's…" And for those saying this was an EAP promised feature, and not FSD.... Perhaps true (back in the day), but back in June 2019, when I purchased my M3, the only options were AP (included, no Enhanced Summon) or FSD (No EAP). To get the formerly EAP and new FSD items (supposedly, but not "really") you had to fork out $6000 for the FSD option, and order it from that intentionally deceptive FSD ordering page, a page that remains deceptive to this very day...

Hah! To those people I'd say - I did do my research - very well, in fact. I knew when I bought the car that Enhanced Summon wasn't actually available. Doesn't make the advertising of it any less deceptive...

Of course, "soon" it will all be irrelevant.

 

[jebinc]

Hah! To those people I'd say - I did do my research - very well, in fact. I knew when I bought the car that Enhanced Summon wasn't actually available. Doesn't make the advertising of it any less deceptive...

Of course, "soon" it will all be irrelevant.

“Next week,” I read...

 

[yerEVan]

“Next week,” I read...

It’s better than “In the coming months” which is what HP said about the Palm smartphone takeover that they ran into the ground.

 

[Fernand]

Is there someone here who got EAP with their Mod3 in late 2018
and did not buy the FSD upgrade before 8/16/2019?
Can you look and tell us what price it shows for you to add FSD now?

 

[SammichLover]

The circles are around the fact that this the actual order page for the Netherlands, and the features that are unlikely to work anytime soon in any country you can realistically drive to from the Netherlands.

Dollars to doughnuts that is authored in the US without solid local understanding. Hanlon's Razor seems applicable here, sloppy localization of marketing materials.

 

[jebinc]

Dollars to doughnuts that is authored in the US without solid local understanding. Hanlon's Razor seems applicable here, sloppy localization of marketing materials.

How do you explain the erroneous US FSD marketing then!

 

[SammichLover]

How do you explain the erroneous US FSD marketing then!

That’s already been covered above, right?

 

[jebinc]

That’s already been covered above, right?

Yes. That’s my point. People continue to defend what appears, by Tesla, to be intentional misrepresentation by suggesting its likely just an error, language barrier, or whatever. Anything but calling it what it is. As you point out, people above claimed the US page was just an error as well, even though the error has remained since March and is widely discussed across all forums; and with some owners complaining directly to Tesla. It is as it appears to be... can’t put lipstick on this one to make it look better - although some will continue to try...​

 

[SammichLover]

Yes. That’s my point.

It’s been covered how it is very likely —sloppy copy-edit —.

Really, you haven’t noticed how bedlam Tesla’s customer communications are? The constant state of flux in the company, and rapid growth, has had the very predictable outcome of poor execution on public facing documents and statements from customer service.

 

[ibGeek]

Yep. Should it be there. Nope, Should Tesla have fixed it. Yep. Does that mean they are out to defraud you. Nope, because they are too busy changing the world. Now I know that sounds all gushy, but given that from day one Elon stated that he wanted to push the wold in to electric vehicles and Amazon just announced that they are purchasing 100,000 trucks from Rivian today, I'd say that worked. I did report the issue to Tesla marketing.

Now get back to enjoying your amazing car. The features you want are coming, take some time to enjoy the features you have.