Just turned on VPP beta this afternoon. There was a message in the Tesla app in box that arrived at 12:25 today. My power comes from Sonoma Clean Power, not PG&E.
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Tesla Virtual Power Plant in CA
- Thread starter power.saver
- Start date
charlesj
Active Member
May want to ask SCP if they give any extra benefit like more $$ for that amount. Hopefully SCP charges more to PGE during those events.
Heres Tesla's link describing VPP
www.tesla.com
This came with the mail in the Tesla app in box
Tesla Virtual Power Plant With PG&E | Tesla Support
Participate in the Emergency Load Reduction Program (ELRP) pilot offered by Pacific Gas and Electric Company (PG&E) and support the grid while also earning compensation and maintaining your energy security.
This came with the mail in the Tesla app in box
I see the control in the app now. It looks like you can turn VPP participation on and off pretty much anytime (and the documentation says so as well).
So for those even remotely curious about this feature, you can try it and observe what it does if and when there are actual VPP events, without getting locked into a long-term commitment.
Bruce.
So for those even remotely curious about this feature, you can try it and observe what it does if and when there are actual VPP events, without getting locked into a long-term commitment.
Bruce.
No, but if the VPP output is exported during the peak rate period (as you said, about .50c), I come out ahead of exporting during the shoulder periods from 3-4pm and 9pm-midnight when I would only get about .40c credited per kWh. My Powerwalls are usually fully charged way before 3pm, so the energy in them cost me off-peak rates + round-trip efficiency loss costs.
My expectation is that the maximum amount that would be exported is probably tied to maximum PV production rather than to the maximum output of the batteries, since the transformer would be guaranteed to handle that if the customer got PTO for their solar system. For me, that would be about 6 kW.
Based on issues raised by PG&E to several users here, @holeydonut mainly, they are adding the maximum PV and PW output together when approving PTO.
but, you already sailed through easily with 5 powerwalls, yet @holeydonut had to sacrifice farm animals as well as give 4 quarts of blood, to even get 3 powerwalls (lol).
Interesting. I didn't realize that PG&E was using the combined number. I was basing my expectation on Tesla's FAQ ("Tesla will securely command your Powerwall to discharge to the grid up to the maximum power approved by your utility. Most Powerwalls will discharge at levels similar to peak solar production on summer days."). I'm curious to see what it actually turns out to be when there is an event.
I'd be happy just to get NEM credit but in the very hottest part of the summer, like when it hits 105F where I live, we end up going from 100% down to 10 or 20% every day anyways so I'm not sure how much it would benefit me since I think my PWs would on be utilized on the days when I'm already going to use all of the power.
We're already providing a HUGE benefit to the grid by using our PWs during peak demand and not taking anything off the grid after dark and before dark during peak demand, 100% of all our solar is already going to the grid.
The IOUs have this section on "Grid Benefit Charge" where they want to charge us x $ per kw of capacity and $ per kwh or storage so that we compensate the grid for not using it as much as other customers. Apparently they completely overlooked the fact that the benefit WE provide the grid is far more than the cost that we avoid by not pulling power off of it at peak time. Criminal scumbags should literally go to prison for perpetuating such a "BIG LIE".
charlesj
Active Member
charlesj
Active Member
I have a 10% reserve set on my 3 PW setup (~40 kWh total, so 4 kWh reserved). We aren't in PSPP areas and while we have had 7 backup events for a total of 6 backup hours since install in Dec 2019; I don't consider our local grid to be unreliable.
Here's Wednesday July 21st for me:
All Day
86.8 kWh Home Usage
50.7 kWh Solar Energy
25.4 kWh From Powerwall
22.8 kWh to Powerwall
48.2 kWh from Grid
14.7 kWh to Grid
Peak (4p-9p)
25.2 kWh Home Usage
14.6 kWh Solar Energy
24.8 kWh From Powerwall
0 kWh To Powerwall
0 kWh From Grid
14.3 kWh To Grid
My System hit 100% on the PW just before 4 pm as the Advanced / Balanced algorithm seems to do a good job with this timing.
(I can tell by the graphs that the system started using Solar to power the home and only excess to top off the PW starting around 1:45 pm)
With my peak home usage at ~25 kWh this means I had 15 kWh left in my PW when peak ended. Respecting my reserve would mean that I could send an additional 11 kWh to the grid without causing my home to import from the grid at Peak rates. I do have the PV capacity to replenish that additional 11 kWh during off peak time.
I checked a different day this month where our home usage was over 100 kWh; interestingly the peak home usage was 25.3 kWh, nearly identical.
In this situation I would STILL have the same PW capacity available to export during peak period. The difference is more grid draw during off peak.
I think this is a total YMMV situation... but I'm going to give it a try for a month or two.
I don’t think it applies to me in LADWP territory but it’s explicit- no compensation as yet, just a beta program to something for ones neighbors.
That said, I still can’t quite figure out how it will work. For example, LADWP had rolling one hour blackouts last summer by neighborhood. Not sure how they defined a neighborhood lets assume it was a zip code.
My three PWs could power my house and another house or two but otherwise I don’t know it would be much help compared to the number of homes otherwise blacked out.
so I wonder how exactly. This would work
That said, I still can’t quite figure out how it will work. For example, LADWP had rolling one hour blackouts last summer by neighborhood. Not sure how they defined a neighborhood lets assume it was a zip code.
My three PWs could power my house and another house or two but otherwise I don’t know it would be much help compared to the number of homes otherwise blacked out.
so I wonder how exactly. This would work
VPP are all a numbers game; the most expensive power is "peaker plant" power. Peaker plants are small gas turbines, or diesel powered generators that come online when larger sources fail. They can have a running cost that is ten times that of larger plants due to$/kW capital costs being higher, higher maintenance costs, and the fact that they aren't used continuously so the investment dollar has to be earned back over fewer running hours.
Having tens or hundreds of thousands of batteries that could turn on for short intervals can help the larger plants have the time to adjust up, or down, on their time scales which may be half an hour or longer depending on their size. Nuclear being the absolute slowest to turn up or turn down due to the thermal mass involved, then large coal, large hydro, etc.
The goal is 120V (+/- a few volts) & 60.0Hz at the residence. Being able to rapidly add high quality power when needed, and where needed, is an extremely valuable add to the grid for power quality, for reliability, for deferred capital investments (fewer transmission wires needed, fewer substations, smaller pole top transformers, and, of course, fewer peaker plants) and lower total cost of power to the utility, I.e. improve profits.
Now imagine that you could turn vehicle charging on/off/V2G from a central command to fine tune power quality on a neighborhood basis. $$$$ very valuable to the power utilities for all of the above reasons. VPP are just the start, though an important one. This is incredibly valuable to the utilities as it reduces their need to invest in large scale and expensive infrastructure.
There are states that mandate that small solar/hydro/wind producers are paid whatever the highest marginal cost peaker plant rates is for the utility. The logic was to improve grid reliability via distributed generation. VPP are just another flavor, but one that is agnostic as to when the power is generated, being able to readily supply it in times of need.
All the best,
BG
The questions and concerns raised by all are good and these are generally addressed in detailed analysis and lengthy processes such as found in the CPUC dockets. That would include numerous experts, use cases, NGOs, debates and discussions.
Tesla's style is to think big, move fast, try out ideas, fail fast and try again differently. Read Liftoff about SpaceX.
At the same time when they see a societal need they use that same style. Whether it it's German floods or California fires and power challenges.
I'm impressed. And appreciate that we have a company like Tesla.
Tesla's style is to think big, move fast, try out ideas, fail fast and try again differently. Read Liftoff about SpaceX.
At the same time when they see a societal need they use that same style. Whether it it's German floods or California fires and power challenges.
I'm impressed. And appreciate that we have a company like Tesla.
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