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TXjak
Owner/Investor/Advocate
If Elon truly believes that electric motors are fundamentally more reliable than gasoline engines, with far fewer moving parts and no oily residue or combustion byproducts to gum up the works, then the warranty policy should reflect that. The drive unit warranty should not be limited by miles on all Model S vehicles, not just those with the 85 kWh battery. Model X and Model 3 drive units too.
In effect, if Elon/Teslamotors does not make the drive unit warranty the same for 60 kWh and 85 kWh cars, they are saying that the 60 kWh cars are less reliable.
I love my Model S, but I think Elon and Tesla Motors may have shot themselves in the foot if they don't fix this.
John
In effect, if Elon/Teslamotors does not make the drive unit warranty the same for 60 kWh and 85 kWh cars, they are saying that the 60 kWh cars are less reliable.
I love my Model S, but I think Elon and Tesla Motors may have shot themselves in the foot if they don't fix this.
John
No that is not what they are saying.
Tesla is a business, not a charity. There is a cost to extend these warranties: they have to increase warranty reserves for all their cars (new and old), which will impact company financials--I am assuming they will take a one-time charge to cover the ~40K cars shipped to date. They would also prefer that people buy the more profitable 85 over the 60 so they will continue to bundle enticements on the 85 like the longer warranty, bundled supercharging, etc.
I would expect a similar policy on the MX and M3, the bigger battery option will get the longer warranty.
Tesla is a business, not a charity. There is a cost to extend these warranties: they have to increase warranty reserves for all their cars (new and old), which will impact company financials--I am assuming they will take a one-time charge to cover the ~40K cars shipped to date. They would also prefer that people buy the more profitable 85 over the 60 so they will continue to bundle enticements on the 85 like the longer warranty, bundled supercharging, etc.
I would expect a similar policy on the MX and M3, the bigger battery option will get the longer warranty.
gg_got_a_tesla
Model S: VIN 65513, Model 3: VIN 1913
Agree that it kinda' sucks for high mileage 60s specifically but, also agree with additional incentives, such as the unlimited battery+drive train warranty, being bundled with the 85 pack. It's just good business all around.
Following your logic, then, the 60's battery pack is also less capable because it has an 8 year 125,000 mile warranty compared to the 85's unlimited mile battery warranty. Why haven't you been losing your mind over this? You didn't think Elon and Tesla shot themselves in the foot over the battery warranty, too? It's amazing how one's logic can twist into a pretzel when there is (possibly) a personal agenda or motivation at play.
60s had no extended drive train warranty prior to last week. Now they have one of the best in the industry. That's reason to celebrate, not complain that your warranty isn't as good as those who paid $10,000 more than you did in order to get that better warranty. It didn't just happen in a vacuum. WE PAID FOR IT! Now you want something you didn't pay for, and are brow beating Tesla over it.
I'm glad to see nothing ever changes around here.
Now lets be fair here, it's not like the extra $10k was just for a warranty it was for the added range. I'm sure the warranty partly up-sold people but lets not pretend that all you get for the 10k was the unlimited miles 8 year warranty.
Tesla warranty now has 8 year/infinite mile battery & drive unit warranty ret...
Of course not, but that extra money paid for a bigger battery with longer range that also came with a better warranty than the 60 did long before the latest warranty extension was announced.
Of course not, but that extra money paid for a bigger battery with longer range that also came with a better warranty than the 60 did long before the latest warranty extension was announced.
TXjak
Owner/Investor/Advocate
It's not about the battery warranty, it's about the drive unit. Elon said "electric motors are fundamentally more reliable than gasoline engines" and didn't say anything about the battery. I have no problem with a different warranty for the battery, but I don't think my drive unit warranty should be limited to 125K miles warranty just because I bought a smaller battery. As I recall there was some discussion around this when Elon demoed the battery swap and people wondered about the warranty.
When I got my Model S in January of 2013, the drive units were the same and the only difference was the battery. I think they still are fundamentally the same, they can just more pull more [horse]power from the bigger battery. Having different drive unit warranties for essentially the same hardware based on which battery is installed might make more sense if they had a longer warranty for the smaller battery because less power would put less strain on the parts. I think they would sell more cars if they made the drive unit warranty independent of the battery warranty and did not base it on miles at all.
When I got my Model S in January of 2013, the drive units were the same and the only difference was the battery. I think they still are fundamentally the same, they can just more pull more [horse]power from the bigger battery. Having different drive unit warranties for essentially the same hardware based on which battery is installed might make more sense if they had a longer warranty for the smaller battery because less power would put less strain on the parts. I think they would sell more cars if they made the drive unit warranty independent of the battery warranty and did not base it on miles at all.
And in true TMC fashion, it made numerous other owners complain about why their 60 isn't like the 85. I guess you can't make everyone happy all the time.
I'm glad this turned out. I own an 85 and was worried about it. I'm still worried about the other things that might break, like the dual chargers, the displays, the pano roof, the rear hatch, etc... Tesla is still a new company and with all the little issues I've had this puts my mind at easy, now the question is if anything will pop up after the 50k or do I need extended warranty. (I'd be interested if it was down to the original price though and no deductible!)
I'm glad this turned out. I own an 85 and was worried about it. I'm still worried about the other things that might break, like the dual chargers, the displays, the pano roof, the rear hatch, etc... Tesla is still a new company and with all the little issues I've had this puts my mind at easy, now the question is if anything will pop up after the 50k or do I need extended warranty. (I'd be interested if it was down to the original price though and no deductible!)
Agree.
To me, infinite speaks to a distance/extent whereas "unlimited" speaks to warranty applicability. Which is preferred somewhat depends on the context/phrasing of the rest of the sentence.
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You were so close. It's actually "Fluid M" but I can't say more due to NDA constraints.
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Nitpicker's corner: I think it's reasonable to treat customers of multiple vehicles better.
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Agree, on the philosophical point you're making.
Disagree, on the practical/logistical here. I don't know the rationale, but I understand why they might want to treat the 60 and 85 differently here.
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Incorrect. Lots of changes. Including more voices, and more varied voices, which makes it more likely different perspectives will clash.
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My understanding is that this was (and is) incorrect w/r/t 60s vs. P85. Not sure if it's correct for 60 vs 85 though.
Keep in mind that you should email Tesla directly with any of your concerns. We all know they do read these forums but the fact is you should relay how upset you are about this to them directly if you already haven't.
Of course not, but some portion of it is for the warranty and it played a material role in my deciding to pay more. Much in the same way people who wanted 40s ended up getting the 60s for the supercharging. They paid $10,000 over a 40 to get supercharging, which was bundled with a larger battery. I paid $10,000 over a 60, partially to get the unlimited mile battery warranty. Now the drive unit is included in that battery warranty for which I paid an increased price. 60 owners did not pay this increased price, and their drive units get their battery warranty which is 125,000 miles. You are getting exactly what 85 owners are getting, if you don't like it then you don't like your battery warranty - which presumably was just fine until now?
i think the argument here is that it was silly for Tesla to bundle the drivetrain warranty into the battery warranty. The batteries at different so it makes sense to have a different warranty, the drive trains are the same so the warranty should be the same. Either way it doesn't matter to me and "infinite miles" is just marketing because at the end of the day the majority of people probably won't go over 125k in 8 years.
To the 60 whiners, give us a break. You still got a nice extension that will go well beyond what 90% of you will drive in 8 years anyway. I'm sure most drivers who go above 15k miles/year got the 85 kWh pack. Am I right? Whining for whining's sake just makes you look ungrateful for what is already a generous gesture from Tesla.
gg_got_a_tesla
Model S: VIN 65513, Model 3: VIN 1913
Whoa, StephenM, where's the Aloha spirit?! 
FTR, I'm happy with the warranty situation for my 60. After 8 years, 125k miles, I'm going to switch to a 120kWh battery anyway...
FTR, I'm happy with the warranty situation for my 60. After 8 years, 125k miles, I'm going to switch to a 120kWh battery anyway...Whoa, StephenM, where's the Aloha spirit?!
Sorry. I forget my manners sometimes :tongue:
I wonder in the future when you can buy a new pack with higher power if you will be able to get a performance gain too.
You are right: the Tesla Model S is an absolute killer for Uber drivers, Taxi drivers and anyone in the Professional Driver Service industry.
The economics are truly disruptive vs. a regular Mercedes Class E and even more a S 400-Hybrid (both top sellers in Paris).
Here's a screenshot I love to share:
Because those first 10,000kms in 8 weeks (delivery 6/29 and a very lucky shot: my passenger remembers the "OMG, I pix take now") cost me Z>E>R>0 as in N>A>D>A: I recharged the batteries for free with all the "for-free" chargers in Paris supermarkets/shopping malls.
And SuperChargers are yet to come in Paris area...
Where you are a bit less right than OK right
- I don't nearly drive 365 days a year.
You know, the French Way of Life...
And that's me writing during a two-weeks vacation (among other) on a remote island near Bordeaux, enjoying Stand-Up-Paddle with great surf coming in.
- Uber Drivers in Tesla Model S bring Lead Generation to an unseen industrial level.
A level even the best Tesla Salesperson can only dream of: we deliver test-drives "face-to-face" to 10 to 20 clients every day -and we get paid for it-.
And they all go down the same path: "ZOMG ! Is this for real ? Can I have your kids ?"
Uber Drivers in Tesla Model S = Ultimate Teslevangelists, if you ask me.
And I agree with me.
Now if Elon & Travis could sit down and talk about "Growth Hack", the obvious would become reality.
/salute
Hi all! Excited that I'm on the verge of pulling the trigger on a MS P85. This thread has been hugely informative and I appreciate everyone's input! That said, I'm trying to wrap my head around the warranties available and how that applies to my own situation. I will be driving the MS P85 between 25,000 to 30,000 miles per year (15,000 for commute [known] and 10,000 to 15,000 for pleasure [estimated, but potentially less]). I'm pieced together much of what has been said on this thread and download the MS quick start guide which has some description of the general/basic warranty.
My confusion revolves around the separate warranties and what is covered under which warranty.
A) Battery Warranty: For the most part I understand it to be 8 years or infinite miles, not extendable, but it is strictly the battery that is covered, or also other parts that charge the battery?
B) Drive Train Warranty: 8 years and infinite miles, not extendable, I guess this covered what is traditionally considered the drivetrain, although this is a non-traditional car, so I guess it only covers the motor itself?
C) It sounds like there is a General Warranty that (I think) covers everything other than the first two warranties, for 4 years or 50,000 miles, that can be extended another 4 years or 50,000 miles?
8 years on the battery and drive train give me comfort, but on the general warranty since I'll hit the 50,000 miles in 2 years and the additional 50,000 miles 2 years after that, I'm trying to ascertain WHAT parts are at risk (i.e. what ISN'T included in the Battery or Drive Train warranties). For instance, AC-DC converters? Chargers (especially since I'll have dual chargers) etc.
Also, the extended service agreement appears to be different than the warranty, is that correct?
I'm sold on the car itself, so I'm just trying to go into this with eyes wide open and make a reasonable risk assessment.
Thanks in advance for any input/help! Cheers!
Eric
My confusion revolves around the separate warranties and what is covered under which warranty.
A) Battery Warranty: For the most part I understand it to be 8 years or infinite miles, not extendable, but it is strictly the battery that is covered, or also other parts that charge the battery?
B) Drive Train Warranty: 8 years and infinite miles, not extendable, I guess this covered what is traditionally considered the drivetrain, although this is a non-traditional car, so I guess it only covers the motor itself?
C) It sounds like there is a General Warranty that (I think) covers everything other than the first two warranties, for 4 years or 50,000 miles, that can be extended another 4 years or 50,000 miles?
8 years on the battery and drive train give me comfort, but on the general warranty since I'll hit the 50,000 miles in 2 years and the additional 50,000 miles 2 years after that, I'm trying to ascertain WHAT parts are at risk (i.e. what ISN'T included in the Battery or Drive Train warranties). For instance, AC-DC converters? Chargers (especially since I'll have dual chargers) etc.
Also, the extended service agreement appears to be different than the warranty, is that correct?
I'm sold on the car itself, so I'm just trying to go into this with eyes wide open and make a reasonable risk assessment.
Thanks in advance for any input/help! Cheers!
Eric
There are some details and varied opinions but the easiest way to describe the "ESA" is that it is just a way to pay up-front for 4x $600 "annual service" visits.
Extended warranty is about expanding the 4yr/50k to 8yr/100k. (For completeness: Note that this is not available in WA or FL.)
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