Tesla will continue to crush CCS...

[Cosmacelf]

Interesting chart and article from InsideEVs: Here's Why Tesla's Supercharging Network Will Prevail

Basically, Tesla has won and will continue to win the DC charging standards war.

As I mentioned in another thread, unless public policy changes, electric demand charges make it almost impossible to run a network of high power DC charge stations at break even. So we are left with a future of a well run Tesla Supercharger network, and a government funded and operated CCS network, until the other manufacturers get a clue and start building their own networks.

While it make seem that Tesla has lost the standards war, especially with the slew of new EVs hitting the road in 2020, we all know those EVs are low volume production runs. Like typically 20,000 per year each. With Model 3 at 200,000 per year and then Model Y etc. it won’t even be a contest.

I wonder when we will start seeing a bunch of articles lamenting how poorly maintained and busy the CCS network is?

 

[Merrill]

Yes, you can boo hoo Elon for various issues but the fact the he was so forward thinking about taking away the “I cannot take a trip in my all electric car” complaint. I still find it hard to believe he would design and build a beautiful car and make it all electric, and then on top of that major task do the supercharging stations is amazing.

 

[KJD]

The main problem with that article is that it only talks about CCS type 1. (North American version)

In North America the Tesla connector will continue to dominate for the time being. The European market however is a different story. The CCS type 2 is required there and Tesla has already started to add that connector to the supercharger stations in the EU.

First look at Tesla’s new dual connector CCS Supercharger

It also appears that the Model 3 for the EU will have CCS type 2 built into the car.

Tesla confirms Model 3 is getting a CCS plug in Europe, adapter coming for Model S and Model X

 

[Unpilot]

I know not of outside the US but without the supercharger network there is now way I would have bought my MS.
I had a Chevy Volt and when I was looking to buy that I compared the Leaf to it. Not even close. I wanted a car to take everywhere. The volt fit the bill due to it's range extender engine. Enter the MS for me...same deal I needed a car that can go anywhere (in the US). Without a viable supercharger network I would not buy a Tesla. And this is why the Bolt will never sell in large numbers.

 

[ewoodrick]

InsideEVs seems to infer that there is an option, a choice. The Tesla network isn't winning, it can't, it won't.
The Tesla network is proprietary and NO ONE else is using them. In fact, the Tesla network may be considered as losing, as there are many Tesla owners that use the other networks.
I don't see any of the Volkswagen money going to going to Tesla network.

While there is so much right about the Tesla network, its exclusivity is going to be its downfall. Tesla has already given into the CCS network in Europe, why not assume that it will do so in the US as well?

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Tesla has already given into the CCS network in Europe, why not assume that it will do so in the US as well?

Because the USA isn't making laws that force Tesla to install CCS connectors.

 

[abasile]

The Tesla network is proprietary and NO ONE else is using them. In fact, the Tesla network may be considered as losing, as there are many Tesla owners that use the other networks.

There are more than enough Tesla vehicles on the road to keep the Tesla network plenty busy! If the Tesla network fits your definition of "losing", then we need more losers.

While there is so much right about the Tesla network, its exclusivity is going to be its downfall.

That might be true if Tesla's market share were small and their charging network were under-utilized.

My prediction is that the "other" networks, like ChargePoint and evGo, will eventually add Tesla connectors to their DC fast chargers.

 

[Cosmacelf]

InsideEVs seems to infer that there is an option, a choice. The Tesla network isn't winning, it can't, it won't.
The Tesla network is proprietary and NO ONE else is using them. In fact, the Tesla network may be considered as losing, as there are many Tesla owners that use the other networks.
I don't see any of the Volkswagen money going to going to Tesla network.

While there is so much right about the Tesla network, its exclusivity is going to be its downfall. Tesla has already given into the CCS network in Europe, why not assume that it will do so in the US as well?

Because the US government isn’t as autocratic as the EU.

Look at the chart above. It isn’t inconceivable that in four years, the North American CCS network will be a disaster and the Tesla network the only viable network. You can’t make money from DC fast chargers. So that leaves a promotional model (advertising) or subsidies from EV manufacturers or government.

 

[mociaf9]

As I mentioned in another thread, unless public policy changes, electric demand charges make it almost impossible to run a network of high power DC charge stations at break even.

This isn't really true. Demand Charges are only an obstacle when the station gets infrequent usage. They make it very hard to establish a network because in the beginning, when there are few cars making use of the stations, the stations will be very unprofitable. But once usage is up, they aren't really a problem. So, it's another EV Chicken & Egg problem. EV uptake is slowed without having access to lots of DCFC because it limits their use case and DCFC installations are slowed because there aren't enough EVs on the road to make regular use of them at a usage rate high enough to lower the barrier of Demand Charges. But in a world with lots of EVs that can use/need DCFC, then it won't be hard to break even.

 

[brkaus]

Tesla has another advantage with their own supercharger network. They have complete control of pricing. EA network is priced similar to filling up a gas car, at least the one I looked at.

 

[SalisburySam]

Tesla has another advantage with their own supercharger network. They have complete control of pricing. EA network is priced similar to filling up a gas car, at least the one I looked at.

Er, not quite complete control. States determine if the superchargers cost per minute or by kWh. Agreements with charging location owners can vary the specific amount, including some with no cost at all for any user. There may be other pricing factors as well. But your point is well taken.

 

[Rsdavis9]

Will tesla make an adapter from CCS to their plug(USA) so tesla's can charge from CCS to tesla cars? Probably.
Will tesla make an adapter from tesla plug to CCS cars? It would need a unique id and a subscription to tesla.
They would remove their moat by doing this.
They would accelerate the adoption of EV's for the world.

 

[brkaus]

They would accelerate the adoption of EV's for the world.

Only if it does not overload the Tesla infrastructure and end up with unhappy customers that go back to ICE.

 

[Shock-On-T]

People seem to confuse “network” with “charging standard”.
Tesla’s charging network is not restricted to its current charging standard. Tesla can easily add CCS2 cables to its existing superchargers, and is planning just that in many markets.
Tesla wins because of the seamless interaction of the network with the customers. No RFID or credit cards needed.

 

[MP3Mike]

In North America the Tesla connector will continue to dominate for the time being. The European market however is a different story. The CCS type 2 is required there and Tesla has already started to add that connector to the supercharger stations in the EU.

First look at Tesla’s new dual connector CCS Supercharger

Sure they are adding a Type 2 CCS connector to every Supercharger in Europe, but will anything other than a Model 3, or Model S/X with an adapter(Not yet available), be able to use it? (They haven't added a payment interface, at least not yet.)

 

[KJD]

Sure they are adding a Type 2 CCS connector to every Supercharger in Europe, but will anything other than a Model 3, or Model S/X with an adapter(Not yet available), be able to use it? (They haven't added a payment interface, at least not yet.)

That is an interesting question. One that I have no answer to.

I guess that I was more interested in the other side of the equation. If a Tesla Supercharge station was full, it would offer a Tesla owner another option to recharge at a non Tesla charge site. The downside is that that other station would probablly cost more to use.

 

[Shock-On-T]

Sure they are adding a Type 2 CCS connector to every Supercharger in Europe, but will anything other than a Model 3, or Model S/X with an adapter(Not yet available), be able to use it? (They haven't added a payment interface, at least not yet.)

Tesla has stated in the past that they are happy to make a deal with other makers to use the Tesla charging network.
As yet, no one has taken them up on this offer.

 

[sjokomelk]

Sure they are adding a Type 2 CCS connector to every Supercharger in Europe, but will anything other than a Model 3, or Model S/X with an adapter(Not yet available), be able to use it? (They haven't added a payment interface, at least not yet.)

No other cars than Model 3 (and future Model S/X with CCS) will be able to use the Combo2-plug at Superchargers.
Tesla Supercharger != CCS charger. The only similar thing is the plug. Everything else is proprietary Tesla Supercharger

Saying that everything with a Combo2 plug/socket could plug in and charge is similar to saying that everything with a 8P8C plug is Ethernet. But it's not. The 8P8C (commonly misnamed as RJ45) plug can be used for Ethernet, ISDN, analog telephone, RS485, xDSL, and lots of other things.

Tesla has stated in the past that they are happy to make a deal with other makers to use the Tesla charging network.
As yet, no one has taken them up on this offer.

If anyone does, they will have to modify their cars to talk Tesla Supercharger (single wire CAN-bus J2411) and work within the Tesla battery pack voltage supported by the Supercharger stack.

 

[Merrill]

Do not want other manufacturers using the Tesla Superchargers, at some point they will be much more crowded.

 

[NeverFollow]

I wonder if the future Tesla V3 supercharger will use 800 Volts,
and if so does the current Tesla plug will still be able to handle this voltage,
compare to the CCS type 2 where the DC voltage pins uses an high voltage insulated separate casing?

Tesla shares Supercharger V3 details, critiques Porsche’s 350 kW chargers