Tesla's autopilot - "unsupervised wannabe" - Volvo says...

[lolachampcar]

It amazes me that we have such detailed discussions about being responsible for our decisions.

I got the upgrade because I was interested in watching the technology evolve. I carefully evaluated its initial and ongoing performance and trust it accordingly. If I found I was incapable of allowing it to operate, I would not turn it on. In fact, there are situations where I do not feel the system is sufficiently competent (yet) and thus will not use it.

If we are responsible, new technologies can be developed quicker and we all benifit. In this light, I would ask that you participate in the solution and not perpetuate the problem of lack of personal responsibility. If you find it is a problem for you, simply do not engage it. If you are concerned about the greater good, ask for the underlining data from Elons comment that there is enough AP data to conclude the Chances of an accident have been reduced 50% where AP is on.

 

[McRat]

When the average citizen hears AutoPilot, they first think airplane, which for most of us is a chauffeured experience where you can read while going to your destination. We do not think of it as heading and altitude because those are not driving terms. Nobody sets their car to drive straight at 210°.

There is ACC, AEB, LKA. Call them what they are, and suddenly the unrealistic expectations are mitigated.

HOWEVER, right now texting or reading while driving is about to become the most dangerous factor in modern life, if it hasn't already.

We need to actively enforce anti-texting laws, and boost the penalties BEFORE 10,000,000 text-friendly cars are on the road. Most of us can spot texting aholes from a distance today because they weave, can't control their speed, and sit parked at green lights like most other drunks. With ACC/AEB/LKA suites intelligent drivers cannot always spot the timebombs in traffic who are not looking up at traffic.

So we see a car that seems to have a fully awake and sober driver suddenly go max brakes or bizarre behavior that occurs to people who are looking at their groin while going 100 feet per second in a 2 ton kinetic energy weapon.

 

[WarpedOne]

It amazes me that we have such detailed discussions about being responsible for our decisions.

You still hold some seriously high expectations on people.I dropped them low some time ago.

 

[lolachampcar]

WO,
I'm convinced that, if you set the bar low, that is exactly what you will get.

 

[Electricfan]

How could you have NOT known this? Elon said OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER again that Autopilot IS NOT Autonomous driving where you can do what you describe. It is very much like the autopilot in an airplane where the pilot IS REQUIRED to be able to take over at a moments notice.

That's an easy answer - I never heard "Elon" say anything before I bought my car. I bought solely from the website. I didn't know anyone with a Model S, and I'd never seen one much less driven one - this was in 2013. In 2015 the only thing I knew was it was supposed to be in control from on-ramp to off-ramp. Tesla doesn't advertise, so unless you google Elon Musk and listen to everything he says, which I'm sure a lot on this forum do but normal people do not, you'd have no way of knowing what "Elon" says.

 

[Electricfan]

Jeez... That is NOT what they sold you. Elon said that would be possible in the future but he NEVER ever said current autopilot can do that and was never sold as that.

I never saw an Elon quote on the website where it advertises autopilot. Is there one there now?

 

[Electricfan]

Today driving home I had to take control again. In this video you will see the pavement split and I think the AP system took the line in between pavement sections as a lane marker because the car went straight instead of bearing left as it should. If I hadn't grabbed the wheel it might have hit the car on my right.

 

[jeffro01]

When are you going to give this up? When??? How is it Tesla's fault that you completely disregarded their presentation and documentation of what AP is, and isn't? Never has Tesla claimed the driver isn't responsible or isn't in charge of the cars operation.

You have been whining constantly about this since the day 7.0 was released and no matter how many different people tell you the same thing, backed by official statements from Tesla, you still claim you have been deceived in some way. Not to mention your own admission that you read e-books (IIRC) while on AP...

The system is not perfect, it's never bene advertised as such, it's never been presented as such, you are the driver and thus you are fully responsible and in control at all times, without exception. Why is this so hard for you to understand and grasp???

I still can't wrap my head around where in the hell you got the idea that buying an AP capable Tesla would absolve you of all driving responsibilities and liabilities....

Jeff

 

[lolachampcar]

If you are not capable of working with a piece of technology, do not use it. It is literally as simple as that.

If you are unable to understand the above statement, then you may want to consider giving up driving as a whole. You are likely a threat to those around you.

I apologize for the blunt nature of the above statements but it would seem blunt talk is required in this situation.

 

[bonnie]

That's an easy answer - I never heard "Elon" say anything before I bought my car. I bought solely from the website. I didn't know anyone with a Model S, and I'd never seen one much less driven one - this was in 2013. In 2015 the only thing I knew was it was supposed to be in control from on-ramp to off-ramp. Tesla doesn't advertise, so unless you google Elon Musk and listen to everything he says, which I'm sure a lot on this forum do but normal people do not, you'd have no way of knowing what "Elon" says.

Oh c'mon. You've been on this forum for several years and have participated in many discussions. You've called people fanboys and made it clear that you didn't trust Tesla one iota. You would have had to purposely gone out of your way to ignore all the AP discussions, including threads titled something like "AutoPilot is NOT Autonomous Driving" (which means you would have at least seen that statement and similar ones when searching what threads you wanted to read. And you want people to believe that you went ahead and bought AP without reading a single discussion about it.

I can't even take this seriously.

 

[ohmman]

Aaaand...

 

[brianman]

Most of us can spot texting aholes from a distance today because they weave, can't control their speed, and sit parked at green lights like most other drunks.

Wait, you're saying all texters are drunk drivers? Or just the ones that are aholes?

 

[Electricfan]

Oh c'mon. You've been on this forum for several years and have participated in many discussions. You've called people fanboys and made it clear that you didn't trust Tesla one iota. You would have had to purposely gone out of your way to ignore all the AP discussions, including threads titled something like "AutoPilot is NOT Autonomous Driving" (which means you would have at least seen that statement and similar ones when searching what threads you wanted to read. And you want people to believe that you went ahead and bought AP without reading a single discussion about it.

I can't even take this seriously.

I can't win. Some people think I'm stupid. You insist I must have been in the know.

I did not think I would have to "keep both hands on the wheel and be ready to take over at any moment" when I bought my 2015 car. However stupid I have to be for that statement to be true, that's how stupid I am.

Out of curiosity, can anybody post a link to a pre-AP launch dated thread on TMC that states something to that effect (keep both hands etc)? I promise I would not have bought the car had I read anything like that.

 

[bonnie]

I can't win. Some people think I'm stupid. You insist I must have been in the know.

I did not think I would have to "keep both hands on the wheel and be ready to take over at any moment" when I bought my 2015 car. However stupid I have to be for that statement to be true, that's how stupid I am.

Out of curiosity, can anybody post a link to a pre-AP launch dated thread on TMC that states something to that effect (keep both hands etc)? I promise I would not have bought the car had I read anything like that.

Probably more realistic would be dates prior to you having to finalize your order. When did you finalize?

 

[S'toon]

That's an easy answer - I never heard "Elon" say anything before I bought my car. I bought solely from the website. I didn't know anyone with a Model S, and I'd never seen one much less driven one - this was in 2013. In 2015 the only thing I knew was it was supposed to be in control from on-ramp to off-ramp. Tesla doesn't advertise, so unless you google Elon Musk and listen to everything he says, which I'm sure a lot on this forum do but normal people do not, you'd have no way of knowing what "Elon" says.

From October 2014:

 

[Chris TX]

Well, there goes the theory that Volvo is working with Tesla for Supercharging access.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I can't win. Some people think I'm stupid. You insist I must have been in the know.

I did not think I would have to "keep both hands on the wheel and be ready to take over at any moment" when I bought my 2015 car. However stupid I have to be for that statement to be true, that's how stupid I am.

Out of curiosity, can anybody post a link to a pre-AP launch dated thread on TMC that states something to that effect (keep both hands etc)? I promise I would not have bought the car had I read anything like that.

Now you are changing your argument. Your main point was about personal responsibility, not about hands on wheels (which Tesla is the least naggy about in the first place and by far the superior system). I posted many links from the launch and from the first Tesla announcement where they talked about the driver having full responsibility in response to your request for such a statement:
Tesla's autopilot - "unsupervised wannabe" - Volvo says...

Tesla was very clear when they announced autopilot in 2014 that it was not autonomous driving (second time quoting this, but I feel it bears repeating):
"Our goal with the introduction of this new hardware and software is not to enable driverless cars, which are still years away from becoming a reality. Our system is called Autopilot because it’s similar to systems that pilots use to increase comfort and safety when conditions are clear. Tesla’s Autopilot is a way to relieve drivers of the most boring and potentially dangerous aspects of road travel – but the driver is still responsible for, and ultimately in control of, the car."
Dual Motor Model S and Autopilot

 

[McRat]

Wait, you're saying all texters are drunk drivers? Or just the ones that are aholes?

When you teach kids to drive, you teach them how to spot drunks so they can avoid them. However, you cannot tell a texter from a drunk since they drive the same way.

So the term drunk driver and texter are effectively interchangeable.

 

[sandpiper]

I can't win. Some people think I'm stupid. You insist I must have been in the know.

I did not think I would have to "keep both hands on the wheel and be ready to take over at any moment" when I bought my 2015 car. However stupid I have to be for that statement to be true, that's how stupid I am.

Out of curiosity, can anybody post a link to a pre-AP launch dated thread on TMC that states something to that effect (keep both hands etc)? I promise I would not have bought the car had I read anything like that.

I can sortof see how this might have happened if a person only listened to the 3rd party media. But Tesla wasn't particularly shy about the limitations of the system. I don't think you'll find anywhere where Telsa published that the car would be in control from on-ramp to off-ramp, or that you wouldn't ultimately be in control.

I had one of the very first AP systems out there and I had no doubt , in 2014 when I ordered it, that it was a limited semi-experimental system. I'll admit that I've bought things in the past without spending the time to understand what I was buying. When I have done that, I kick myself, resolve to be more careful next time, and move on. It's not the fault of the seller if I'm not paying attention.

In any case, the Tesla manual is exceedingly clear about the system limitations. And heck... it tells you to hang onto the wheel whenever you engage it. Although it's entirely possible that I might not always do that!

 

[Electricfan]

I can sortof see how this might have happened if a person only listened to the 3rd party media. But Tesla wasn't particularly shy about the limitations of the system. I had one of the very first AP systems out there and I had no doubt , in 2014 when I ordered it, that it was a limited semi-experimental system. I'll admit that I've bought things in the past without spending the time to understand what I was buying. When I have done that, I kick myself, resolve to be more careful next time, and move on. It's not the fault of the seller if I'm not paying attention.

In any case, the Tesla manual is exceedingly clear about the system limitations. And heck... it tells you to hang onto the wheel whenever you engage it. Although it's entirely possible that I might not always do that!

Yes, I agree in the US it is more and more a "buyer beware" system. That's sad, to me. They should put this screen shot up on the Autopilot page on the Tesla website, if they want to be the "better, different company" Tesla holds itself out to be: